Thread: why? (p.gyno)

Bromocriptine or dostinex, run a search. Dostinex is prefered but it costs more.

Why are you worried about progesterone gyno? Unless you are going to do some crazy deca or fina dose I would not worry about it at all. If it would be your first time using either one of those, then common sense tells you dont go nuts on the dose anyway.

I was just wondering, just wanted to learn. I'm running test 500/wk for 12wks and jump started with d-bol at 35 for 4-6wks, should I run it with nolva, by the way I bought 2500 iu I'm planning on taking after I get my last inj. and doing about 250- every wk then after my third week start my pct with nova 20mg and clomid at 50mg. any comments mudge?

2500iu HCG, I left it out.

Thanks wood from AF

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Suppression of Lactation:

When the mother chooses not to breast feed or the baby is lost, suppression of lactation may be required. Initially the breasts get engorged, however in the absence of suckling further milk production stops on its own. Firm support to the breasts is helpful in reducing the discomfort. Manual expression is not very helpful as it promotes further milk secretion. Estrogens in high doses can suppress lactation, however there are side effects and the risk of venous thrombosis, hence these are not recommended. Bromocryptine, a dopamine agonist, given 2.5 mg twice a day for 14 days can suppress lactation by producing a fall in prolactin levels. This therapy is expensive, has side effects and there may be rebound lactation once the drug is stopped. FDA no longer approves it. Pyridoxine – Vitamin B6, given 200 mg three times a day for 5-7 days is quite effective in suppressing lactation and the drug has no side effects.
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Got Wood? note : adding Bromo to your cycle only adds to the potential anabolic cascade, and potentially negative drug interactions. In medicine B6 is supposed to be as effective as Bromo. Plus vitamin B6 has few side effects.
Here are a few of many studies supporting the use of Vitamin B6 in reducing prolactin:
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J Clin Endocrinol Metab 1976 Mar;42(3):603-6


Effect of pyridoxine on human hypophyseal trophic hormone release: a possible stimulation of hypothalamic dopaminergic pathway.

Delitala G, Masala A, Alagna S, Devilla L.

A single dose of pyridoxine (300 mg iv) produced significant rises in peak levels of immunoreactive growth hormone GH and significant decrease of plasma prolactin PRL in 8 hospitalized healthy subjects. Serum glucose, luteinizing hormone LH, follicle stimulating hormone FSH and thyrotropin TSH were not altered significantly. In addition, in 5 acromegalic patients who were studied with both L-dopa and pyridoxine, inhibition of GH secretion followed either agent in a similar pattern. These data suggest a hypothalamic dopaminergic effect of pyridoxine.

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N Engl J Med 1982 Aug 12;307(7):444-5

Pyridoxine (B6) suppresses the rise in prolactin and increases the rise in growth hormone induced by exercise.

Moretti C, Fabbri A, Gnessi L, Bonifacio V, Fraioli F, Isidori A.

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Boll Soc Ital Biol Sper 1984 Feb 28;60(2):273-8

[Influence of administration of pyridoxine on circadian rhythm of plasma ACTH, cortisol prolactin and somatotropin in normal subjects]

[Article in Italian]

Barletta C, Sellini M, Bartoli A, Bigi C, Buzzetti R, Giovannini C.

The influence of vitamin B6 in a dosage of 300 mg X 2 in 24 hrs, on circadian rhythm of plasmatic ACTH, cortisol, prolactin and somatotropin have been studied in 10 normal women. After vitamin B6 24 hrs pattern of ACTH and cortisol is unchanged; prolactin levels are slightly lower, in a statistically unsignificant proportion the night peak of growth hormone is higher in a statistically significant proportion (p. 0.05). The effect of vitamin B6 is likely to me mediated by dopaminergic receptors at hypothalamic level as previous studies by other Authors appear to prove.
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From Hhajdo

Clin Endocrinol (Oxf) 1982 Nov;17(5):495-9 Related Articles, Links


Hydrotestolactone lowers serum oestradiol and PRL levels in normal men: evidence of a role of oestradiol in prl secretion.

D'Agata R, Aliffi A, Maugeri G, Mongioi A, Vicari E, Gulizia S, Polosa P.

The effect on serum PRL levels of lowering serum oestradiol (E2) concentration by short-term administration of an aromatase activity inhibitor, hydrotestolactone (HT), was studied in six healthy male subjects. After HT administration serum E2 levels decreased from 68 +/- 5.8 to 26 +/- 2.5 pmol/l (mean +/- SE, P less than 0.05). These E2 changes were accompanied by a significant decrease in mean 2-h PRL levels from 11.2 +/- 2.1 to 6.5 +/- 1.6 ng/ml mean +/- SE, P less than 0.05) . The evaluation of individual percentage change from basal concentrations showed a varying decrease in all subjects. These findings suggest that under physiological conditions E2 may be one of the factors which control blood PRL concentrations in men.

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Acta Endocrinol (Copenh) 1984 Feb;105(2):167-72

Testosterone-induced hyperprolactinaemia in a patient with a disturbance of hypothalamo-pituitary regulation.

Nicoletti I, Filipponi P, Fedeli L, Ambrosi F, Gregorini G, Santeusanio F.

A case of a patient with hypopituitarism due to a disturbance of hypothalamo-pituitary regulation is presented, who developed high-grade hyperprolactinaemia after the initiation of substitutive therapy with testosterone esthers.The increase in serum Prl was strictly related to testosterone aromatization to oestradiol, since anti-oestrogen compounds were effective in reducing (clomiphene) or abolishing (tamoxifen) the enhanced Prl secretion. The oestrogen effect in raising Prl release was not attributable to a reduction in the dopamine inhibition of Prl-secreting cells, as the dopamine-antagonist domperidone failed to increase Prl serum levels in the same patient. This suggests that, in man, the oestrogen effect in enhancing Prl release is mainly enacted directly on the pituitary lactotrophs rather than exerted through a reduction in the hypothalamic dopamine activity

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Effect of androgenic anabolic steroids on sperm quality and serum hormone levels in adult male bodybuilders.

Torres-Calleja J, Gonzalez-Unzaga M, DeCelis-Carrillo R, Calzada-Sanchez L, Pedron N.

Unidad de Investigacion Medica en Biologia de la Reproduccion, Instituto Mexicano del Seguro Social, Mexico, DF.

The purpose of this study was to assess the influence of the administration of high doses of androgenic anabolic steroids (AAS) on endocrine and semen parameters. Thirty volunteering bodybuilders were studied (ages ranging between 26.6 +/- 4.1 years). A history of anabolic steroid administration was recorded for fifteen subjects, and results of semen analysis and endocrine parameters were compared with data from fifteen bodybuilders not using steroids. In those subjects using AAS, eight had sperm counts under the lower normal limit (20 x 10(6) sperm/ml), three had azoospermia, two polyzoospermia, and two had normal sperm counts. The percentage of morphologically normal sperm was significantly reduced, only 17.7% had normal spermatozoa. In the control group, only one subject had oligozoospermia.The hormonal parameters revealed reduced FSH (1.5 +/- 3.2 vs 5.0 +/- 1.6, p < 0.001) and PRL (5.1 +/- 4.9 vs 9.2 +/- 4.4, p < 0.01) levels. LH, T, E2 and DHEA levels did not vary.

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BTW, I've seen a few studies which suggest that St. John's wort lowers PRL:

Neuroendocrine evidence for dopaminergic actions of hypericum extract (LI 160) in healthy volunteers.

Franklin M, Chi J, McGavin C, Hockney R, Reed A, Campling G, Whale RW, Cowen PJ.

University Department of Psychiatry, Warneford Hospital, Oxford, UK.

BACKGROUND: We studied the effect of a single dose of a formulation of a methanolic extract of Hypericum perforatum (HP), also known as St. John's wort, on plasma concentrations of growth hormone (GH), prolactin (PRL), and cortisol (CORT) in 12 healthy male volunteers. METHODS: Subjects received 9 tablets of the finished product Jarsin 300 and placebo in a double-blind, balanced-order, cross-over design. RESULTS: Following HP relative to placebo, there was a significant increase in plasma GH and a significant decrease in plasma PRL. Plasma CORT levels were unchanged. CONCLUSIONS: Taken together with data from animal experimental studies, the findings suggest that this dose of HP may increase some aspects of brain dopamine function in humans.


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J Psychopharmacol 2000;14(4):360-3 Related Articles, Links


Acute effects of LI 160 (extract of Hypericum perforatum, St John's wort) and two of its constituents on neuroendocrine responses in the rat.

Franklin M, Chi JD, Mannel M, Cowen PJ.

University Department of Psychiatry, Warneford Hospital, Oxford, UK. michael.franklin@psych.ox.ac.uk

Extracts of Hypericum perforatum (St John's wort), such as LI 160, which are effective antidepressants have several active constituents. Their mode of action in depression, however, is unclear. In the present investigation, we assessed the effect of equivalent doses of LI 160 and two of its components, hypericin and hyperforin on serotonin (5-HT) and dopamine (DA)-mediated neuroendocrine responses in the rat. LI 160, hypericin and hyperforin significantly and equivalently increased plasma corticosterone. This effect was blocked by ketanserin but not WAY-100635, suggesting mediation via 5-HT2 receptors. LI 160 also lowered plasma prolactin and prevented the increase in plasma prolactin following haloperidol administration. Hyperforin had a similar but somewhat less pronounced effect. We conclude that LI 160, hypericin and hyperforin all increase 5-HT-mediated corticosterone release while LI 160 enhances DA-mediated inhibition of prolactin release. Hyperforin may contribute to the facilitatory effect of LI 160 on DA function, but hypericin does not.

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Pharmacopsychiatry 2001 Jul;34 Suppl 1:S29-37 Related Articles, Links


Researching the antidepressant actions of Hypericum perforatum (St. John's wort) in animals and man.

Franklin M, Cowen PJ.

University of Oxford Department of Psychiatry, Warneford Hospital, UK.

We have studied the effect of acute and sub-chronic treatments of a formulation of a methanolic extract of hypericum perforatum (HP, also known as St John's wort) on plasma hormones and brain neurotransmitters in healthy human volunteers and rats. Also studied were the effects of equivalent acute doses of two constituents of HP (with respect to LI 160 extract), hypericin and hyperforin in rats. In acute treatment studies in normal volunteers subjects received 9 tablets of the finished product Jarsin 300 and placebo in the pilot study (unblinded) and in the main study (a double blind, balanced order, cross-over design). Results in normal volunteer studies show that HP caused significant increases of salivary cortisol and plasma growth hormone (GH) whereas it decreased plasma prolactin versus placebo. Plasma hormone levels were associated with a rise in plasma hyperforin but not with hypericin, however no significant correlation was found. In the animal studies, acute treatment with LI 160, hyperforin and hypericin all caused significant increases in plasma corticosterone. This was associated with significant increases in brain cortical tissue 5-HT content. The corticosterone responses were attenuated by the 5-HT2 receptor antagonist, ketanserin but not by the 5-HT1A antagonist, WAY-100635. This suggests that the corticosterone responses may be mediated via a 5-HT2 mechanism of action. When sub-chronic and acute treatment using two different doses of LI 160 were compared, plasma corticosterone level were significantly decreased. Thus suggesting a down-regulation or desensitisation of post-synaptic 5-HT2 receptors. Plasma prolactin was significantly reduced by acute treatment with LI 160 and hyperforin treatment but not by hypericin. This was associated with a concomitant rise in brain cortical tissue DA. Both LI 160 and hyperforin treatments decreased the plasma prolactin responses to the DA antagonist, haloperidol, suggesting that this may be associated with a DA-mediated mechanisn of action. When acute and sub-chronic treatments were compared, plasma prolactin responses were increased in the sub-chronically treated animals. The studies when taken together suggest that the LI 160 extract may effect plasma hormonal changes via both 5-HT and DA-mediated mechanisms but do not involve noradrenaline (NA). The data also suggests that hyperforin may be more important than hypericin for effecting these changes following acute treatment. Further studies investigating both acute and sub-chronic effects of these compounds are necessary.

Originally posted by jeb
why is it that you can't stop p. gyno with nolva?????

You heard wrong. Nolva is still the best to use.
http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/s...ad.php?t=13935

Nobody agrees, meaning there are still multiple sides to this argument.

It didn't work for Tx so thats all I need to know, but I'm not sensative like he is.

hehe..when in doubt blast it with what ya got...id throw bromo/nolva/b6/vitex at it and hope ...one is bound to work :-P just be in for one crappy dweekwhen pounding all of that..

p gyno has too many rumors

some p gyno fighters can be backed ...others are just myth....

dostinex-itll work
bromocriptine-itll work but youll be sick as a dog
B6-actually has tests showing it works...odd
vitex-rumor, but some people said they had sucess with it
nolva- its a toss up...more than likely your running test with your cycle..so throwin nolva into the fight cant hurt
ru486-though it does affect prolactin, you will be sick as hell and its not proven at all

I'm like Bobo.................when something this serious is concerned, I want proof. Not just hear say.

I agree with DG. Bobo is *usually* right about these things. Of course if he's wrong in this case.... you're screwed!

Bobo is a stickler on research. He almost always shows proof of something when he posts. So when he say something will work, I know he has proof to back it up.

who the hell is Bobo?

Admin @ anabolicminds
DG grabs JAG by the hand................get with the program dude~!!

gotcha.. appreciate it

Lets get this straight once you get gyno it doesn't leave without surgery.

Arguable, but I've never experienced it first hand. There are people (one admin on another board included, JGUNS) that swear they have fixed it post, but before calcification.

10mg Nolva while on the cycle is recommended by many.

5%-10% less efectiveness of cycle can be expeded due of the lack of estrogen. But you wont be using any bras...

Nolva can cause a rebound, I prefer anti-a.