Why draw with one size and inject with another?

**Dale Mabry** · 03-15-2004, 03:16 PM

Jersey just asked me a question and I wanted to make sure I gave him a good answer. Why would you draw with a bigger needle and inject with a smaller one. Wouldn't this just leave you with more active trapped in the syringe rather than in the vial. This does not make sense to me.

**dg806** · 03-15-2004, 03:36 PM

time mostly.....................plus you dull the needle when you inject into the vial. You want a fresh needle.

Just a guy · 03-15-2004, 03:54 PM

to avoid losing any Juice in the top needle (i think its like 1/10th of a cc) just pull some air into the syringe and then change the needle... Changing the needle is especially beneficial if your using multiple vials...

**Mudge** · 03-15-2004, 04:31 PM

Duh?

So you dont dull the needle, and so you dont stick a friggin nail in your arm.

Or conversely, waiting 5 minutes to draw with a 25g pin.

Yes I always pull back when I am done drawing.

Just a guy · 03-15-2004, 04:47 PM

yeh i havent had time to run to the pharmacy around here so i have been drawing with a 25 G... ITs a bitch.. i just boil some water and put the 2 vials in there and then draw... aint too bad.. but aint good neither

**Mudge** · 03-15-2004, 05:01 PM

Getpinz will get it to you in 3 days if you dont have time to travel.

**Dale Mabry** · 03-15-2004, 05:11 PM

Mudge, I know why you would change the needle, I would just figure there is no reason to use a different gauge. Personally, the 23g looks fine, I see no reason to use a 25g unless you are a pussy.

**Mudge** · 03-15-2004, 05:14 PM

I like reduced scar tissue, especially if doing frequent injections. After a while of doing daily jabs I could feel when I hit scar tissue, then when injecting pain would sit there for a day or two, and I would bleed a lot more frequently.

So overall, I want less damage to my body, and I believe in slow injections anyway and 25/27g I can still empty in under a minute.

**Dale Mabry** · 03-15-2004, 05:32 PM

Never really thought of someone doing daily injections. That would be hell.

Power Rabbit · 03-15-2004, 05:54 PM

i jab daily....and i guess im a pussy cause i love my 25g and 27g..id die doin spot injections with a 23 g

**Mudge** · 03-15-2004, 06:22 PM

I dont think it has anything to do with being a pussy, are we pussies because we dont rip out knives and then just pour our goods in the open wound?

My dad has some nasty scarring on his right shoulder where the military used to administer their injections, who wants that shit all over their body? Who wants fat indentations in their muscle tissue everywhere?

If you love hitting yourself with a 15g, 18g, or 23g go for it, I have enough forearm strength to push through a 25 or 27 just fine.

PreMier · 03-15-2004, 06:39 PM

Why dont you just use a new needle every time? Syringes are only 25cents at the pharmacy

JerseyDevil · 03-15-2004, 07:01 PM

Looks like I inspired this thread thru a question to Dale. My question was more to do with what is the best gauge to use rather then drawing vs injecting.

Everyone tells you to research, research, research but the gauge question is a good case in point. You see many different opinions about what is best, with no clear cut choice. I read a Q & A just this morning where Dan Duchaine said 25g is too small because it takes a good 2-3 minutes to inject. That advice does not seem consistent with what I'm hearing elsewhere. I've found that most people seem to recommend 23g and 25g, 1" and 1-1/2" lengths.

I will probably get syringes fitted with 23g, 1-1/2", but will also get some 25g, 1" needles and decide for myself.

You can interchange the different needles gauges on B-D and Terumo syringes, correct?

**Mudge** · 03-15-2004, 07:41 PM

18g is popular but it beats up the stoppers too much IMO and I can draw FAST with a 20g.

Try drawing with a 23g or a 25g, it sucks ass. My first cycle I used a 23g to pull 1cc and shoot 1cc, and I overpayed for pins too.

Jersey they are interchangeable yes. The Terumo base is stronger which makes shooting with a 25/27g easier, but the 25g is easy with either of them to me.

I have 1.5" 20g for pulling, and 25g 1" and 5/8" for shooting, as well as some 27g .5" which work great for delts/traps/pecs/arms.

Just a guy · 03-15-2004, 08:45 PM

pussy? and your using a 25G... well shit... i guess that makes me a bigger of a man if i use a 18 G... LoL why would u use anything that is going to cause more harm to your body (like mudge said).

Im doing daily Inject's 2... And i can only see my self using the smallest gauge possible.

ST240 · 03-15-2004, 10:33 PM

i draw and shoot with a 23..... takes forever to draw that shit but im getting better at it

jeb · 03-16-2004, 02:30 PM

I draw with an 21g and shoot with 23 x 1" for my butt and 25 x 1" for my delts.

tk... · 03-18-2004, 12:59 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
Never really thought of someone doing daily injections. That would be hell.

yup, i not really looking forward to injecting twice a day once my IGF gets here. Atleast its with a unsilin syringe..

**Dale Mabry** · 03-18-2004, 05:13 PM

Just playin with the pussy comment. I will be doing my first injection tonight, should be a real thrill. How long should it take to draw and inject with a 23G, just so I don't fuk it up and end up spilling shit all over. I gots 500mg/mL Enanthate.

Just a guy · 03-18-2004, 06:03 PM

If you try drawing it and its too slow for ya... just boil some water and take it off the burner when it gets goin and put the vial in there to thin it up... it will have to sit in there for like 3 minutes and you should be straight.

JerseyDevil · 03-18-2004, 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
I will be doing my first injection tonight, should be a real thrill. How long should it take to draw and inject with a 23G, just so I don't fuk it up and end up spilling shit all over. I gots 500mg/mL Enanthate.

500mg/ml? I've heard that even 400 mg/ml injections can really be painful because of the amount of BA required to suspend the compound. Definitely inject into the glutes, and you might consider cutting with sterile oil 1:1.

Power Rabbit · 03-18-2004, 06:45 PM

if you want less pain the next day inject as slow as possible...like 2 min of plunger movement

**Dale Mabry** · 03-18-2004, 07:35 PM

Do you all generally take your injections in the am or pm? I am leaning towards the am. I am thinking that if I do it at night and then go to sleep it will be sitting there for a while which could cause more aggravation in the area and if I do it in the am, all the moving around will help her get out of the area quicker.

Just a guy · 03-18-2004, 08:58 PM

with that long ester it want really matter... some say injecting at night gives them Good morning wood... personally i always get morning wood... My boys Enjoy injecting before workouts.. Kind of a placebo effect..

Just a guy · 03-18-2004, 08:59 PM

if you do it at night ... yes your going to wake upwith a stiff leg.. put a heating pad on it before you sleep. may help.. may not

gr81 · 03-18-2004, 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Dale Mabry
Just playin with the pussy comment. I will be doing my first injection tonight, should be a real thrill. How long should it take to draw and inject with a 23G, just so I don't fuk it up and end up spilling shit all over. I gots 500mg/mL Enanthate.

500!!! what product is this Dale. I have never heard of 500mg/ml anything personally?! please elaborate. Plus I have run the test 400, and it was very painful b/c of the BA content, and even then it was almost guaranteed to not be 400mgs/ml. I don;t know about a 500mg/ml shot. Thats gonna be some strong shit bro. The enanth already is somewhat painful at like 250/ml depending on what brand you are running. It shouldn't take too long though to draw w/ a 23.

Power Rabbit · 03-18-2004, 09:51 PM

either he ment 500mg .or he is useing PL gear :-P

**Dale Mabry** · 03-18-2004, 10:06 PM

PL Stuff. I can't really give you the full name as he does not want it posted on the open boards. I can PM you the name if you like.

Power Rabbit · 03-18-2004, 11:54 PM

heh yea..knew it mush be him..not many people that make such ridiculously high concentration gear...more than likely its gonna hurt like hell....cut it with b12

gr81 · 03-18-2004, 11:57 PM

I wouldn't even want to run something that highly concentrated really. whats the benefit. you are gonna be in pain Dale, I bet. I would mix it with something far less painful. I don't know what else you are running with it but Rabbit is right, vut it with something. The 400 I ran was great, but I had pain for so many days after the injection that I had to quit running it. I couldn't train with that going on! ha ha. Talk about counterproductive.

03-15-2004, 03:16 PM	#1
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 14,335 Photos: 10	Why draw with one size and inject with another? Jersey just asked me a question and I wanted to make sure I gave him a good answer. Why would you draw with a bigger needle and inject with a smaller one. Wouldn't this just leave you with more active trapped in the syringe rather than in the vial. This does not make sense to me. If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

03-15-2004, 03:36 PM	#2
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 18,197	time mostly.....................plus you dull the needle when you inject into the vial. You want a fresh needle. 1-Andro Rx Pro-hormone

03-15-2004, 03:54 PM	#3
Just a guy Senior Gear head Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,320 Photos: 1	to avoid losing any Juice in the top needle (i think its like 1/10th of a cc) just pull some air into the syringe and then change the needle... Changing the needle is especially beneficial if your using multiple vials... CUTTING! Was 260lbs. Now 02/09/05 236lbs Height:5'8 Age: 20 Bench:395 Leg press:975

03-15-2004, 04:47 PM	#5
Just a guy Senior Gear head Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,320 Photos: 1	yeh i havent had time to run to the pharmacy around here so i have been drawing with a 25 G... ITs a bitch.. i just boil some water and put the 2 vials in there and then draw... aint too bad.. but aint good neither CUTTING! Was 260lbs. Now 02/09/05 236lbs Height:5'8 Age: 20 Bench:395 Leg press:975

03-15-2004, 05:01 PM	#6
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	Getpinz will get it to you in 3 days if you dont have time to travel. Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

03-15-2004, 04:31 PM	#4
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	Duh? So you dont dull the needle, and so you dont stick a friggin nail in your arm. Or conversely, waiting 5 minutes to draw with a 25g pin. Yes I always pull back when I am done drawing.

03-15-2004, 05:11 PM	#7
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 14,335 Photos: 10	Mudge, I know why you would change the needle, I would just figure there is no reason to use a different gauge. Personally, the 23g looks fine, I see no reason to use a 25g unless you are a pussy. If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

03-15-2004, 05:14 PM	#8
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	I like reduced scar tissue, especially if doing frequent injections. After a while of doing daily jabs I could feel when I hit scar tissue, then when injecting pain would sit there for a day or two, and I would bleed a lot more frequently. So overall, I want less damage to my body, and I believe in slow injections anyway and 25/27g I can still empty in under a minute.

03-15-2004, 05:32 PM	#9
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 14,335 Photos: 10	Never really thought of someone doing daily injections. That would be hell. If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

03-15-2004, 05:54 PM	#10
Power Rabbit The Bunny Is Bulking! Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,027 Photos: 3	i jab daily....and i guess im a pussy cause i love my 25g and 27g..id die doin spot injections with a 23 g

03-15-2004, 06:22 PM	#11
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	I dont think it has anything to do with being a pussy, are we pussies because we dont rip out knives and then just pour our goods in the open wound? My dad has some nasty scarring on his right shoulder where the military used to administer their injections, who wants that shit all over their body? Who wants fat indentations in their muscle tissue everywhere? If you love hitting yourself with a 15g, 18g, or 23g go for it, I have enough forearm strength to push through a 25 or 27 just fine.

03-15-2004, 06:39 PM	#12
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,962 Photos: 2	Why dont you just use a new needle every time? Syringes are only 25cents at the pharmacy P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

03-15-2004, 07:01 PM	#13
JerseyDevil GO Buckeyes! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Southern, NJ Posts: 5,586	Looks like I inspired this thread thru a question to Dale. My question was more to do with what is the best gauge to use rather then drawing vs injecting. Everyone tells you to research, research, research but the gauge question is a good case in point. You see many different opinions about what is best, with no clear cut choice. I read a Q & A just this morning where Dan Duchaine said 25g is too small because it takes a good 2-3 minutes to inject. That advice does not seem consistent with what I'm hearing elsewhere. I've found that most people seem to recommend 23g and 25g, 1" and 1-1/2" lengths. I will probably get syringes fitted with 23g, 1-1/2", but will also get some 25g, 1" needles and decide for myself. You can interchange the different needles gauges on B-D and Terumo syringes, correct?

03-15-2004, 07:41 PM	#14
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	18g is popular but it beats up the stoppers too much IMO and I can draw FAST with a 20g. Try drawing with a 23g or a 25g, it sucks ass. My first cycle I used a 23g to pull 1cc and shoot 1cc, and I overpayed for pins too. Jersey they are interchangeable yes. The Terumo base is stronger which makes shooting with a 25/27g easier, but the 25g is easy with either of them to me. I have 1.5" 20g for pulling, and 25g 1" and 5/8" for shooting, as well as some 27g .5" which work great for delts/traps/pecs/arms.

03-15-2004, 08:45 PM	#15
Just a guy Senior Gear head Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,320 Photos: 1	pussy? and your using a 25G... well shit... i guess that makes me a bigger of a man if i use a 18 G... LoL why would u use anything that is going to cause more harm to your body (like mudge said). Im doing daily Inject's 2... And i can only see my self using the smallest gauge possible. CUTTING! Was 260lbs. Now 02/09/05 236lbs Height:5'8 Age: 20 Bench:395 Leg press:975

03-15-2004, 10:33 PM	#16
ST240 ...And justice for all. Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Edmonton, AB, Canada Posts: 1,390	i draw and shoot with a 23..... takes forever to draw that shit but im getting better at it

03-16-2004, 02:30 PM	#17
jeb Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Texas Posts: 173	I draw with an 21g and shoot with 23 x 1" for my butt and 25 x 1" for my delts.

03-18-2004, 05:13 PM	#19
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 14,335 Photos: 10	Just playin with the pussy comment. I will be doing my first injection tonight, should be a real thrill. How long should it take to draw and inject with a 23G, just so I don't fuk it up and end up spilling shit all over. I gots 500mg/mL Enanthate. If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

03-18-2004, 06:03 PM	#20
Just a guy Senior Gear head Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,320 Photos: 1	If you try drawing it and its too slow for ya... just boil some water and take it off the burner when it gets goin and put the vial in there to thin it up... it will have to sit in there for like 3 minutes and you should be straight. CUTTING! Was 260lbs. Now 02/09/05 236lbs Height:5'8 Age: 20 Bench:395 Leg press:975

03-18-2004, 06:45 PM	#22
Power Rabbit The Bunny Is Bulking! Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,027 Photos: 3	if you want less pain the next day inject as slow as possible...like 2 min of plunger movement

03-18-2004, 07:35 PM	#23
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 14,335 Photos: 10	Do you all generally take your injections in the am or pm? I am leaning towards the am. I am thinking that if I do it at night and then go to sleep it will be sitting there for a while which could cause more aggravation in the area and if I do it in the am, all the moving around will help her get out of the area quicker. If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

03-18-2004, 08:58 PM	#24
Just a guy Senior Gear head Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,320 Photos: 1	with that long ester it want really matter... some say injecting at night gives them Good morning wood... personally i always get morning wood... My boys Enjoy injecting before workouts.. Kind of a placebo effect.. CUTTING! Was 260lbs. Now 02/09/05 236lbs Height:5'8 Age: 20 Bench:395 Leg press:975

03-18-2004, 08:59 PM	#25
Just a guy Senior Gear head Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Somewhere Posts: 1,320 Photos: 1	if you do it at night ... yes your going to wake upwith a stiff leg.. put a heating pad on it before you sleep. may help.. may not CUTTING! Was 260lbs. Now 02/09/05 236lbs Height:5'8 Age: 20 Bench:395 Leg press:975

03-18-2004, 09:51 PM	#27
Power Rabbit The Bunny Is Bulking! Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,027 Photos: 3	either he ment 500mg .or he is useing PL gear :-P

03-18-2004, 10:06 PM	#28
Dale Mabry Moderator Moderator Join Date: May 2003 Location: Elsewhere Posts: 14,335 Photos: 10	PL Stuff. I can't really give you the full name as he does not want it posted on the open boards. I can PM you the name if you like. If sense were common, everyone would have it. 4/2007-Current 75th Ranked most popular image 1 spot behind Prince's bulge...

03-18-2004, 11:54 PM	#29
Power Rabbit The Bunny Is Bulking! Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Virginia Posts: 1,027 Photos: 3	heh yea..knew it mush be him..not many people that make such ridiculously high concentration gear...more than likely its gonna hurt like hell....cut it with b12

03-18-2004, 11:57 PM	#30
gr81 You Lack Intensity!!!! Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Just below our civil disguise Posts: 6,378 Photos: 10	I wouldn't even want to run something that highly concentrated really. whats the benefit. you are gonna be in pain Dale, I bet. I would mix it with something far less painful. I don't know what else you are running with it but Rabbit is right, vut it with something. The 400 I ran was great, but I had pain for so many days after the injection that I had to quit running it. I couldn't train with that going on! ha ha. Talk about counterproductive.

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