bigbob12

well, now I'm kinda torn between one of two steroids. I will be using this in a stack for an injured calve.

whats the consensus......EQ or DECA for injury healing??

I know HGH is the "best" but which of those two steroids above would be the better one..... thanks!

and some will say that I should not use roids at all for this, but I have been through 3 months with no improvement, so i need to try something new. thanks!!

Mudge

Neither, hGH if you are lucky.

EQ and deca are claimed to increase collagen synthesis, but honestly even GH which is acclaimed for healing prowess, I know someone who has taken it for months and still has an injury and they started taking it mere weeks after it occurred. They were using enough to lose feeling in the hands for a good portion of each day.

So, good luck with that.

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bigbob12

Could one run deca and EQ at the same time.....without getting deca-dick??

for example:
EQ at 500 mg and deca at 375 mg per week

I know deca is very suppressive and test is usually "needed" to prevent libido loss, but could EQ be used in place of the Test by any chance?


thanks!!

Mudge

Sorry, test is test, EQ is not going to be a suitable replacement.

Now I've heard of people "reverse wired" who get horny on fina, but I've never heard of it with deca cycles lacking test.

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bigbob12

well alright, fair enough, If i were to lose all libido on a 10 weeks cycle with deca and eq, what are the chances I could become impotent? rare? will it all come back after i go through post cycle therapy and such? any ideas

Mudge

You wouldn't be impotent for life, but deca has caused some severe suppression even in young males. One guy was low natural T for 11 months after his cycle that had deca in it.

PCT for a true recovery is likely to be very long, and the only way to really know is to get a blood test a month or two after you finish your PCT to know if you are truly recovered or not. Obviously a blood test while on PCT is "cheating" and your numbers wont be trustworthy.

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When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
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bigbob12

well alright, what about this?



500 test/week
250 EQ/week
250 Deca/week

is this balanced properly to prevent deca-dick? too many androgens....or no?

Mudge

Most likely fine unless you turn out to be sensative to deca, if something hapens to you, you wont have any idea where its coming from if you have never run any of these before.

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bigbob12

Hey, just wondering.....can someone get EQ-dick like they can get deca dick? If one were to use just EQ, would the supression on natural test be great enough to do that?

if running a 10 weeks cycle with:
100 mg test/week
500 mg EQ/week


If one were to use just EQ, would the supression on natural test be great enough to do that? thanks!

bigbob12

How to increase collegen synthesis!! (i.e. - strengthen those tendons and ligaments)
originally posted by AnimalMass on competitivemuscle.com

While injecting test increases protein syntesis by roughly 50 times, depending on dose and time, most bodybuilders forget that it will reduce collagen synthesis by more than 50% -- more like 80%, giving you the collagen synthesis rate of a senior citizen. Since collagen makes up tendons, bros are very prone to injury if they continue to lift very heavy, unless they cycle off T and let their collagen synthesis get back to normal. It's like having the skeletal muscle of a gorilla with the tendons of a very old man.

Winstrol increases collagen synthesis. It will give you bigger tendons. However, your body compensates for this by making them more brittle, weaker, and more prone to injury. I can't tell you how many bros work out anaerobically and become injured while on winstrol. Guys who lift in the 1-5 rep range while on winstrol, to baseball players who sprint all out from a stationary position -- winstrol should be the LAST drug they choose. Most of them like winstrol because they don't get the weight gain from it but it is very detrimental to bros who train for any sport anaerobically. Tendons tear easily on it.

Also, the drugs I mention increase collagen syn while also increasing collagen cross-linking integrity, making for a much stronger tendon.

Winstrol, on the other hand, will dramatically increase collagen syn, but ironically it decreases collagen cross-linking integrity, thus making a much weaker tendon.

You can plan a cycle of AAS which will increase collagen synthesis and skeletal muscle growth at the same time. The key is the drug(s) you choose.

Deca, Equipoise, Anavar, and Primobolan will ALL increase skeletal muscle while at the same time dramatically increase collagen syn and bone mass and density, leaving you with a substantially reduced chance of becoming injured than if you choose to use AAS like sus, cyp, or enth.

While testosterone will increase bone mass and density, even at supra-physiological levels, the result is weaker tendons due to inhibition of collagen syn.

To plan a cycle where the goal is to increase skeletal muscle mass/strength while at the same time increase joint/tendon/ligament strength, enough to keep up with the dramatic increase in skeletal muscle, you must choose drugs like Eq, Deca, Anavar, or Primo as the base of your cycle. Testosterone and its esters can be added to your cycle to keep levels within a 'normal' physiological range (ie, 100-200 mg/wk) but must not go above this. Since drugs like eq, deca, anavar and primo will reduce endogenous, natural levels of test, these levels may be maintained with exogenous test in the 100-200 mg/wk range. Test at this dose will not inhibit collagen syn, but paradoxically, will help increase it. It is when exogenous testosterone is used > 200 mg/wk that collagen syn is inhibited.

Deca @ 3 mg/kg a week(about 270 mg/wk for a 200 lb male) will increase procollagen III levels by 270% by week 2. Procollagen III is a primary indicator used to determine the rate of collagen syn. As you can see, deca is a very good drug at giving you everything you want -- an increase in collagen syn, an increase in skeletal muscle, and increases in bone mass and density. The one thing it does not give you is wood

Primobolan, @ 5 mg/kg, will increase collagen synthesis by roughly 180% -- less than deca and equipoise but still substantial.

Equipoise @ 3 mg/kg will increase procollagen III by approximately 340% -- slightly better than deca.

Oxandrolone has over a hundred studies documenting its effectiveness at treating patients needing rapid increases in collagen syn to enhance healing.

These drugs have longer half-lives than most other AAS, so this should be considered when timing your post cycle clomid use. Here they are:

Deca: 15 days Equipoise: 14 days Primobolan: 10.5 days

Anavar has a half-life of only 8 hours so it should not pose a problem.

GH is probably the most remarkable drug at increasing collagen synthesis. It increases collagen syn in a dose dependant manner -- the more you use, the more you will increase collagen syn. It has also demonstrated this ability in short and long term studies. From what I've read, hGH at 6 iu/day increased the collagen deposition rate by around 250% in damaged collagen structures. This result indicates that the increased biomechanical strength of wounds to collagen structures treated with biosynthetic human growth hormone was produced by an increased deposition of collagen in the collagen structures.

Eq, primo, anavar, and deca are all good -- they increase several biomakers of collagen syn -- ie, type III, II, I, procollagen markers. GH just seems to do so most dramatically.

Use of any of these drugs @ supra-physiological levels with a maintenance dose of test will increase collagen syn while at the same time increase skeletal muscle mass. Skeletal muscle mass gains will not be as dramatic as with large testosterone doses but you have to weigh the risk/reward basis for yourself. Also, these drugs do not satisfy the libido like testosterone, but that is not the point of this thread. It is only to demonstrate that you can increase skeletal muscle and collagen syn at the same time with certain AAS -- the decision is up to you.

AnimalMass

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What do you guys think of this idea?

BUSTINOUT

EQ WILL supress natural test. I would run the EQ w/o the deca, but NOT without test. Deca and EQ together is useless IMHO. The cycle you have given is seriously lacking in test. 100mg test won't do jack. What are your goals anyway...other than healing up a calf? I'm too lazy to go back and read the entire thread again. I'd run 500mg/week test and 400mg/wk EQ and go from there.

bigbob12

alright, thanks bustinout

Mudge

We have all read this before, and nobody has ever been able to prove certain things mentioned in the article like testosterone inhibiting collagen synthesis.

So, without referencing science, the article is questionable.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks