Originally Posted by trHawT

By itself, compared to ECA, Clenbuterol would be worse as far as sides are concerned. Clenbuterol is a bronchiodilator, used to treat asthma patients. It actually raises your body temp. Will make you shake and have a rapid heartbeat. Clen will definitely burn more fat alone. It also has a slight anabolic effect, great for a cutting diet. However, why don't you try Clen for two days on/Ephedrine two days off? Try it for four weeks @ 50 - 100 mcg's. Gradually increase in 25 mcg increments. You have to build a tolerance for Clen. I started @ 50 mcg, and I worked up to 100/150 mcg's. I wouldn't advise going over 100 mcg's for the four-week period. I also heard it raises your metabolism by around 10%.

Originally Posted by Monolith

Clen isnt anabolic.

Originally Posted by trHawT

"Clenbuterol has two secondary effects that are beneficial to athletes and
bodybuilders. The first is a strong anti-catabolic effect, which means it
decreases the rate at which protein is used up in the muscle cells, consequently
causing hypertrophy of muscle cells (with proper training, of course). Clen
accomplishes this by the stimulation of both type 2 and 3 beta-receptors.
3-beta receptors are more abundant in livestock than in humans. This explains
the pronounced anabolic effects on livestock as opposed to humans."

Animals have more of the beta-3's, in which Clen has more of an ANABOLIC effect on them than humans. Anabolic = muscle building. Androgen = increased masculine characteristics.

I'm surprised that some don't search before they post. Yes! Clenbuterol is slightly anabolic in humans.

Originally Posted by trHawT

Yes, Clenbuterol is anti catabolic. Catabolic simply means "characterized by destructive metabolism." I still say Clenbuterol is anabolic in animals.

Originally Posted by Monolith

If i could find some coherency in that statement i might attempt a reply... but as such, all i can say is: ok.

Originally Posted by PirateFromHell

In the nutritional sciences, carbohydrates (CHO is the proper abbreviation) and fat (lipids) are considered "protein sparing" because when amounts of CHO and Lipids are sufficient, all the protein can be used to build new tissue instead of being used for energy. Therefore, CHO and Lipids are considered anabolic--since they increase the amount of tissue growth. They are also considered anti-catabolic because the body doesn't have to break down existing tissue--be it adipose or lean body mass--to provide for the body's energy needs. Drugs are similar in that the ones that effect hormone levels (like cortisol) tend to be 1) anabolic and anti-catabolic or 2) catabolic. Some level of catabolism and anabolism is always going on--it is a continuous cycle. Anything that slows the rate of catabolism is therefore anabolic, because the ratio of anabolism to catabolism is shifted in favor of anabolism. Sorry that was so convoluted. It is really quite simple, though.

Originally Posted by trHawT

Explained well! Damn.

Originally Posted by trHawT

Monolith, show us a study that shows that Clen is not anabolic in humans or animals. Dude, how can you go against science? Pirate explained above.

Originally Posted by PirateFromHell

Understood well. Explained poorly. I am a nutrition major (and late for class right now!). They teach that Carbohydrates (CHO) are anabolic simply because eating enough reduces catabolism, and therefore promotes the building of new tissue. It is as simple as that. Clen is obviously not nearly as anabolic as steroids in humans. It may not be more anabolic than CHO, but by definition anabolism is: "The phase of metabolism in which simple substances are synthesized into the complex materials of living tissue". Anything that supports this process is anabolic. If you were on the same diet and exercise routine without clen, your body would synthesize less lean tissue (muscle) since you are on reduced calories. Take the same diet and routine and add clen, and your body would synthesize more lean tissue than without the clen. In this since, it has anabolic properites--though not like steroids. I have to go...

Originally Posted by trHawT

See above post from Pirate. Some need to know basic definitions before posting. I think it shows that Clen could be anti catabolic and anabolic.

Here's a post by Mudge:

Posted by: Mudge

Clenbuterol:

Description: Is available in 10 - 20 mcg tablets or in the .016 mg/gram Ventapulmin Vet variety. Clenbuterol is known as a sympathomimetic. These hormones are taken to mimic adrenaline and noradrenaline in the human body. Clenbuterol is a selective beta-2 agonist that is used to stimulate the beta-receptors in fat and muscle tissue in the body. Clenbuterol exhibits most of its effects on the stimulation of both type 2 and 3 beta-receptors. Clenbuterol is really one of bodybuilding's most misunderstood performance enhancement drugs. It is true that it is effective in helping to burn bodyfat but it is often been stated that clenbuterol is effective in causing anabolic gains and has in times even been compared to some of the weaker anabolic steroids. Books such as the World Anabolic Review, 1996, by P. Grunding and M. Bachmann state incorrectly that, "its effects, however, can by all means be compared to those of steroids. Similar to a combination of Winstrol Depot and Oxandrolone...." These statements are inaccurate and misleading to say the least. A lot of these claims as to the anabolic effects of clenbuterol are derived from studying the effects of clenbuterol on livestock. Clenbuterol is effective in increasing muscle mass and decreasing fat loss in animals. The problem with the variation in anabolic effects between humans and livestock is that livestock have an abundance of the type 3 beta receptors whereas humans have little if any of the type 3 beta receptors. These beta-3 receptors increases insulin secretion and sensitivity, causing more glucose and amino acids to be transported into skeletal muscle thus causing the anabolic effects that we, humans, just aren't seeing. As Dan Duchaine stated in his Muscle Media article on clenbuterol, "In those animal research studies showing an anabolic effect from clenbuterol, it's my guess the anabolism happens specifically when the beta2 receptor stops working. At that point, the beta3 increases and causes the anabolic effect through insulin mechanisms." Since humans, again, have either very little or no beta-3 receptors, there is no chance of this anabolic effect. Just another of the studies where everyone assumed that what works in animals must work in humans. This is just simply not the case with clenbuterol. Clenbuterol does work effectively as a fat burner though. It does this by slight increases in the body temperature. With each degree that the temperature in your body is raised from the use of clenbuterol, you will burn up approximately an extra 5% of maintenance calories. This makes it effective as a fat burner. Your body will fight this by cutting down on the amount of active thyroid in the body as well as through beta-receptor down regulation, which explains why you only have a limited effective period to take clenbuterol. While I am on the subject of beta-receptor down regulation, I would like to dispose of another myth. This involves the two on/two off cycling theory that I believe was originated by Bill Phillips in the Anabolic Reference Guide and has somehow made it's was into every other steroid book since then including the WAR and Physical Enhancement with an Edge. The two on-two off theory simply will not work because of one main reason: the half life of clenbuterol. This 2-on/2-off idea was a THEORY ONLY, not by a doctor or scientist, and not based on specific knowledge of clenbuterol, but derived by imitation from other drug's with shorter half lives.

Clenbuterol has been reported as having a half life of about 2 days, but that is not actually correct, since it has biphasic elimination, with the half-life of the rapid phase being about 10 hours, and the slower phase being several days. Supposedly, this is one of the reasons the FDA never approved clenbuterol as an anti-asthmatic drug...the FDA frowns on drugs with long half-lives if drugs with more normal half-lives are available. So with a 2-on/2-off cycle you never have time to get enough of the clenbuterol out of your system for this theory to be reasonable. In actuality, it probably hasn't even dropped to 50% of your peak concentration before you are taking the drug again. With this all taken into account, there is no reason to think that this cycling would significantly reduce the problem of receptor desensitization. A more reasonable approach would be either one week on, one week off, or alternately, two weeks on two weeks off. The two week cycle has the disadvantage of a "crash" period afterwards. This crash period can be helped with the use of ephedrine to lessen the lethargy that you will experience.

If you are interested in taking clenbuterol for anything other than fat loss then you might as well stay away from this compound. There is a lot of talk as to how clenbuterol compares to ephedrine as well. Most "experts" feel that clen gives a better bang for the buck than the ECA stack. It should be noted that clenbuterol’s results and effects are much shorter lived. They work through very similar mechanisms. Both products stimulate the beta-receptors but clenbuterol seems to be a more refined version, called a second generation beta-agonist drug, than ephedrine. Clenbuterol targets the proper receptors, being the beta-2 and 3 receptors than ephedrine more specifically which should in theory make clenbuterol more effective of a fat burner. Again, most of the so called "experts" say that clenbuterol is more effective than ephedrine. I, personally, get worse results with clen vs. the good old ECA stack. Clenbuterol also didn't blunt my hunger either and I ate more while taking it as well. I also seem to get much better effects out of cytomel as a fat burner as well. Even better than the ECA stack or clenbuterol. But, again, that is my personal opinion. Effective Dose: 80-140 mcgs. / day in split doses throughout the day. Anything over 140 mcg a day is overkill since the beta receptors can only take so much of a product and then more is just wasteful.

Street Price: $.50 - 1.00 / tab. Fairly inexpensive in Mexico though. Spiropent is currently going for about $7.50/box, Novegam for $5.25/box, and Oxyflux for about $3.30/box.

Effective Dose: A few drops under the tongue and not used for but a few weeks at a time.

Street Price: Not a clue. Too hard to find. Even if I could find it I would not buy it.


Mono, I hope this helps. How do you think horses win shows? Hint, hint.

Originally Posted by trHawT

Yes, I've read it a few times. I just want you to be informed on some BASIC info. regarding to Clenbuterol. Have you even taken it? Don't see how you could form an opinion. Are you ok? Why do you get so upset? Chill, dude. Why can't we agree to disagree? Grow up!

Originally Posted by Monolith

Clen isnt anabolic.