Thread: blood work results, need advice

#1 stay away from deca, it hits many young people hard as well as old
#2 Two weeks of clomid is bullshit

2 weeks is bullsh@t--not enouph maybe?
anyways can i start another cycle i plan this
1-4 sus 500
1-4 dbol 25ed
4-12 test en 500
4-12 500 deca i have acess to it and paid
PCT 3 weeks after last shot PCT
1-3 nolva and clomid
OTC unleashed suppl.

i still need info about getting fertility, will gear cause me not to have kids in late future or what--
SOME ONE ANSWER MY FIRST POST PLS?

Are you eating enough? High cals, high pro?

yes i eat enouph , but that is not my question. read my first post its about my natural test level im clean now

Having sex shouldn't effect your free test levels. Overall level might be a bit low for 26 - could be the deca that knocked you low. Noone can foresee the future and only a doctor would know for sure (about kids)- you can ask your doc about it. You may still be suppressed, since m1t is a real drug and because of the deca. You may need to run the pct some more now, to get your levels elevated.

having sex definetly does not effect total T or free T levels...

ok, what can i do to raise my test levels please help me.
and another thing is my test my be low, but if you cycle what does it matter if your suppresed htpa already isnt the gear going to just shut me down anyway.

Question 1)
Take Arimidex

Study Shows That Arimidex Boosts Testosterone



Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.
J Clin Endocrinol Metab 2000 Jul;85(7):2370-7 (ISSN: 0021-972X)
Mauras N; O'Brien KO; Klein KO; Hayes V nmauras@nemours.org.

We have shown that testosterone (T) deficiency per se is associated with
marked catabolic effects on protein, calcium metabolism, and body
composition in men independent of changes in GH or insulin-like growth
factor I production. It is not clear,,however, whether estrogens have a
major role in whole body anabolism in males. We investigated the metabolic
effects of selective estrogen suppression in the male using a potent
aromatase inhibitor, Arimidex (Anastrozole). First, a dose-response study of
12 males (mean age, 16.1 +/- 0.3 yr) was conducted, and blood withdrawn at
baseline and after 10 days of oral Arimidex given as two different doses
(either 0.5 or 1 mg) in random order with a 14-day washout in between. A
sensitive estradiol (E2) assay showed an approximately 50% decrease in E2
concentrations with either of the two doses; hence, a 1-mg dose was selected
for other studies. Subsequently, eight males (aged 15-22 yr; four adults and
four late pubertal) had isotopic infusions of [(13)C]leucine and
(42)Ca/(44)Ca, indirect calorimetry, dual energy x-ray absorptiometry,
isokinetic dynamometry, and growth factors measurements performed
before and after 10 weeks of daily doses of Arimidex. Contrary to the effects of T
withdrawal, there were no significant changes in body composition (body mass
index, fat mass, and fat-free mass) after estrogen suppression or in rates
of protein synthesis or degradation; carbohydrate, lipid, or protein
oxidation; muscle strength; calcium kinetics; or bone growth factors
concentrations. However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with
no significant change in mean and peak GH concentrations, but with an 18%
decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations. There was a
58% increase in serum T (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not
change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both). Serum
bone markers, osteocalcin and bone alkaline phosphatase concentrations, and
rates of bone calcium deposition and resorption did not change. In
conclusion, these data suggest that in the male 1) estrogens do not
contribute significantly to the changes in body composition and protein
synthesis observed with changing androgen levels; 2) estrogen is a main
regulator of the gonadal-pituitary feedback for the gonadotropin axis; and
3) this level of aromatase inhibition does not negatively impact either
kinetically measured rates of bone calcium turnover or indirect markers of
bone calcium turnover, at least in the short term. Further studies will
provide valuable information on whether timed aromatase inhibition can be
useful in increasing the height potential of pubertal boys with profound
growth retardation without the confounding negative effects of gonadal
androgen suppression.

Question 2)
I don't have a study for this, but it stands to reason, if you don't let your levels recover to natural level, you may be suppressing them or lowering their range somewhat. So you should recover fully before another cycle.

To check what the normal range for your age, go here:

http://www.medicine.uiowa.edu/Path_H.../test1802.html

I would think Clomid or Nolva would be better than Arimidex off cycle. I wouldn't start another cycle until your natty test recovers to the normal range for someone your age. Use HCG next time, too.

Nolva is usually good for lipid profiles as arimadex is usually bad for most people.

Both aromatase inhibitors and estrogen antagonists are beneficial even during the cycle. As far as I'm concerned, they are essential.

I have seen too many young guys have long lasting issues because they neglected anti-e protection while on.

Originally Posted by dg806

Nolva is usually good for lipid profiles as arimadex is usually bad for most people.

How do you mean that, about Arimidex?

Originally Posted by Oneiros

Both aromatase inhibitors and estrogen antagonists are beneficial even during the cycle. As far as I'm concerned, they are essential.

I have seen too many young guys have long lasting issues because they neglected anti-e protection while on.

That depends if you want to bulk. If you take them during cycle, you won't gain nearly as much size as you would without them. Problems arise from poor PCT. If you need them during cycle for a specific problem, that is different.

Originally Posted by Oneiros

How do you mean that, about Arimidex?

Estrogen has a positive effect on cholesterol levels. Since estrogen is reduced, the use of arimidex may have a profound impact on HDL to LDL ratio's in your cholesterol profile. Not good

Originally Posted by dg806

That depends if you want to bulk. If you take them during cycle, you won't gain nearly as much size as you would without them. Problems arise from poor PCT. If you need them during cycle for a specific problem, that is different.

What do you mean by "size"? Retained water? Because I've found no evidence that increased estrogen during the cycle has any serious muscle building properties.

I agree that increased weight may be beneficial, as far as lifting performance is concerned, but I believe that the negative aspects far outweight the positive ones.

Originally Posted by dg806

Estrogen has a positive effect on cholesterol levels. Since estrogen is reduced, the use of arimidex may have a profound impact on HDL to LDL ratio's in your cholesterol profile. Not good

You are right. Nevertheless, you are talking about normal estrogen values. Elevated estrogen values, due to aromatization, are not desirable not applicable in the example above.

Arimidex at 1mg/day completely eliminates estrogen. This is certainly not good. But, say, half a tab EOD is a good idea, given large quantities of aromatizable AAS.

Originally Posted by Oneiros

What do you mean by "size"? Retained water? Because I've found no evidence that increased estrogen during the cycle has any serious muscle building properties.

I agree that increased weight may be beneficial, as far as lifting performance is concerned, but I believe that the negative aspects far outweight the positive ones.

Anyone knows estrogen is great for muscle building. Yes too much can be bad though.
Aromatase blockers like arimidex are more useful for those seeking to eliminate estrogen from a cycle of aromatizable steroids all together. Arimidex is for people who are willing to settle for slower gains, in an attempt to stay lean or for those who are truly sensitive to estrogen and do not want to take the risk of problems occurring. And arimidex is the clear choice here.
The benefits of estrogen become non-existent during arimidex use and that means gains can be drastically reduced. They will be leaner and more qualitative, but they will nonetheless be seriously reduced.

Originally Posted by Oneiros

Both aromatase inhibitors and estrogen antagonists are beneficial even during the cycle. As far as I'm concerned, they are essential.

#1 Not once the drugs are gone
#2 He ran deca, not test

How do you mean that, about Arimidex?

Estrogen is too far suppressed, and this guy had no massive aromitization going on. PLUS this was a cycle MONTHS ago, LH/FSH stimulation is one thing, trying to stop production of imaginary aromitization is another.

I'd go with more clomid and/or nolvadex treatment. HOWEVER, this could be a completely recouperated person because I've seen blood tests in the low to mid 200s for young 20 year olds who have never juiced once in their lives.

ok so mudge you suggest that i take sime clomid to help bring my test up--im 218 lbs and if i train and eat good not drinlk heavy alcohol on weekend i make improvements--only thing is sex drive slow and little depressed and boy my body gets overtrained fast .

If you have depression issues post cycle and such I probably wouldn't go over 50mg clomid, unless you ran 100mg for one week. I'd probably go for about 4 weeks of that (50mg) and see how you feel.

This depression and lack of sex drive is all new to you right?

Originally Posted by jpflex66

2 weeks is bullsh@t--not enouph maybe?
anyways can i start another cycle i plan this
1-4 sus 500
1-4 dbol 25ed
4-12 test en 500
4-12 500 deca i have acess to it and paid
PCT 3 weeks after last shot PCT
1-3 nolva and clomid
OTC unleashed suppl.

i still need info about getting fertility, will gear cause me not to have kids in late future or what--
SOME ONE ANSWER MY FIRST POST PLS?

I would run test enanthate week 1-12. I see no point in using sust the first 4 weeks. there is no advantage to doing so...

well mudge-- i messed w. prohormones alot before last cycle that probably shut me down too--so sex drive is wierd i can bust a load everyday, but not sex machine--and thats no big deal too me--as far as depression goes i can function w/out meds its not a clinical depression-i think its more like upset with my body--i do get emptional alot, but i was always like that (it does not effect my life, i get happy thoughts)and finally i doin sust500 week 1-4 cause left over and tring a experiment to see how i react the first month on 500 sus before i hit the test.
BUT FOR SUM REASON IM NERVOUS TO START CYCLE GEEZ WHY?

Dude, sustanon is test. If you are starting yet another cycle your recovery is going to be that much more difficult.

Prohormones, steroids, all suppress your HPTA, the longer you are on the worse it will be to recover.

Dude what is this crap about being on for 12 weeks and only 3 weeks of low dose PCT?

If you aren't getting size, you aren't eating. If you want to know how badly you are screwing up your chances for having kids, then you need to be tested for LH and FSH. Many people have gotten their women pregnant while on half year plus long cycles, while using only hCG in the mix. FSH and LH in some people can easily hit DEAD ZERO while cycling and very weakly recover, especially when you run cheap post cycles like you are.

I'm not trying to flame either, I'm just trying to understand where you got the idea that 4 months or longer suppression can be erased in 3 weeks. If you really dont want to have problems then stop fucking with deca.

ok mudge i know i screwed up--so can u help me give me a suggestion of a good PCT pls--i have no hcg just novaldex and clomid liquid products.

i really want to hit a cycle--im not tryin to be a bitch, but you have good advice i need.
any way should i hit some clomid now for month then get another blood test

ok last question mudge (big props to u also on info)
let say now i hit cycle--ok well im going to be suppressed either way--i end cycel with a good PCT you suggest--u think that i may recover better more than my levels are now cause i did the right thing--or is my body just going to be so screwed up its unaviodable cause i didnt get it up past 280 T-level now.

If you run PCT for another month, wait another 3-4 weeks after that for your blood work, IF you really care about 100% recoup. I myself do not really care that much, but I am pondering a very long break this time (for me being 3 possibly 4 months).

If it were me, since you have N/C I'd run 20 nolva and 50 clomid ED for 2 weeks then switch probably to EOD after that. I go with my gut though, and mostly I just pay attention to the size of my nads. For my post cycle stuff I pay attention to my size, weight, and lifts - as well as of course how my nads are doing. I dont take a lot of off time though, 6-8 weeks, ALL PCT - then I jump into my next cycle. I also pay attention of course to my sex drive, but again in general I am not concerned with 100% recovery after each and every friggin cycle.

Like I said about your 280, that could be normal for you, but it may not. I know a gifted early 20s guy who hit 280 after his very first cycle at 6 foot, and he wasn't fat either, but for 11 months after that first cycle his sex drive was on the floor and his T levels sucked. If deca were not in his stack his recovery would probaly have been a lot better. He got some advice from a doc about using HCG for a short while, then nolvadex treatment, and voila he was relatively normalized after that. Generally you get your blood work 4 weeks or so after PCT to look at T/E stuff if you care about total recovery, I think he was in the 1000ng range, which is easily double where I see a lot of white guys score. I'd say for average white guys from what I've seen often score 260-540ish or so even for a guy 20 years old. I dont even know that you are white or not, but I'm saying dont feel that 280 is abnormal just because its LOW, you may never have been that high in the first place.

yea im white--great info bro--that wut i was looking for---and r my nads are fine too like a walnut maybe i just had bad reading too....thnx for the advice