Dbol only cycle, fact or fiction

Luke8395 · 02-22-2005, 07:04 AM

Dbol only cycles, fact and fiction

The story we all hear is that a Dbol only will result in water gain, and water loss; nothing more. Decided for yourself….

The cycle- 28 days with 25mg ed of BD (50mg tabs) and 300mg ed of molecular nutrition’s 1-t esterfied.

The PCT- Tamoxifen 60mg ed for 2 days, 40mg for 2 weeks, 20mg of 2 weeks. 3.75g of tribulus. Weeks one and two include clen.

The diet- F/C/P 20%/50%/30% @ ~ 4,400 calories.

The Training-High volume (6 days)

The Results-
-on cycle
10lbs were gained in the first 2 weeks. 5lbs in the last days of the cycle. Seriously increased vascularity on cycle. An EXTREMELY significant strength gain resulting in weights on some exercises upped by 50%. Although the subject was lethargic, he never came close to ‘shutting down’.

-on PCT
Four days into PCT, the water weight was completely gone already. (probably the clen). This revealed that the subjects bf% dropped by around 1-2% as well. One week into PCT the Strength gains have barely diminished.

There was an estimated 6lb LBM gain from the 28day cycle, and the strength gains never seemed to completely go away. There was a noticible size gain on more than one body part. Comments were made even after water was lost.

Please note the Dbol in question is also suspected of being underdosed

brogers · 02-22-2005, 07:22 AM

Impressive

**dg806** · 02-22-2005, 07:26 AM

How can you compare since he took 1t also?

Stu · 02-22-2005, 07:49 AM

that subject must be pretty pleased

Luke8395 · 02-22-2005, 07:50 AM

honestly, I think the results are because of the 1-t in conjuction with the Dbol. The subject has run m1t and 1-t cycles in the past with lesser results and NO strength gains.

If 1-t allowed people who previous squatted 185 for reps to kick out 315 x 14, I think it would have been alot more popular.

Also, leg extensions went from the 200lb range to 300 x 8

From conversations with many gear users, PH/PS/1-t/and m1t are all a joke to them. i'm sure they would consider incorporating one of those into a dbol cycle as a "dbol only" cycle.

**dg806** · 02-22-2005, 08:06 AM

185 to 315 for 14 ain't gonna happen in 28 days. BS

musclepump · 02-22-2005, 08:19 AM

Yeah, it's not a d-bol only cycle when you add 1-t, buddy.

**Mudge** · 02-22-2005, 08:28 AM

If they started off as a 185 squatter either they didn't train for shit, or were relatively new to training altogether.

Tha Don · 02-22-2005, 12:56 PM

awesome luke, i'm gonna follow suit once my 1-ad pct is over

running dbol and s1+ for 6-8 weeks, hopefully similar strength gains

and BTW to all those who said this is not a true dbol only cycle that may be correct, but i would still put a good 60-70% of what he gained down to the dbol, and he said he never gained strength on 1test before but he made dramatic strength gains w/ dbol thrown in there

definately inspired me to run my 1t/4ad and dbol cycle, i'll be running mine like this though

weeks 1-4 25mg ed of russians
weeks 1-6 or 3-8 S1+ (10-12 sprays ed)

i'll be running the s1+ slightly longer than the dbol in an attempt to keep more of the gains from the dbol when i drop it, instead of dropping it right before pct (surely there is a better chance i'll keep the strength if i'm still running s1+ when i come off the dbol), so i'm using the dbol almoast as a kickstart to the s1+

if anyone has any advice for me on this cycle i'd be glad to hear it

Luke8395 · 02-22-2005, 01:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

If they started off as a 185 squatter either they didn't train for shit, or were relatively new to training altogether.

He's not afraid to admit that his squats did suck! But for somebody to be able to put 315 on the bar for the first time (at 180lbs) and crank out 14 reps to *parallel* is pretty damn good either way. The fact that the subject was relatively new to them compounds the seriousness of the PB, if you ask me.

**Mudge** · 02-22-2005, 01:34 PM

I dont think I've ever seen a bodybuilder anytime recently do a true parallel squat, most people dont even know what it is.

315x14 is good at that bodyweight, but if someone is new to it and on drugs then yes the improvements are going to be remarkable.

If you want serious, get someone who has been training 5+ years to put 70% on a lift, now that would be impressive and I'd want to know how they did it.

**P-funk** · 02-22-2005, 01:41 PM

Quote:

I dont think I've ever seen a bodybuilder anytime recently do a true parallel squat, most people dont even know what it is.

ronnie coleman??

**Mudge** · 02-22-2005, 01:43 PM

I just watched his most recent video again yesterday, on his heavy sets he gets damn close if not fully parallel - hard to tell from the FRONT

With a traditional stance a parallel squat is damn near ATF unless you have skinny legs. The crease in your hip must reach the knees, have someone watch you from the side, its pretty damn deep.

Cardinal · 02-22-2005, 02:08 PM

6 lbs keepable lbm in 28 days on dbol + 1-test seems pretty reasonable to me. I build muscle fairly easily and if I did everything perfectly might could match that.

On M1t+4AD I managed about 3-5 lbs lbm/30 days (did this on two cycles) and I would expect dbol to give just a pinch more. In such a short time-frame though, only so much muscle can be build.

I would like to see similarly controlled results over a 6 week cycle of Dbol only. I imagine strength gains would be even better. Cycles like that are not too terribly different than a lot of guys have done with prohormones over the last few years with decent results.

thatguy · 02-22-2005, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

I just watched his most recent video again yesterday, on his heavy sets he gets damn close if not fully parallel - hard to tell from the FRONT

With a traditional stance a parallel squat is damn near ATF unless you have skinny legs. The crease in your hip must reach the knees, have someone watch you from the side, its pretty damn deep.

I've seen some clips of him training, and (at least on the one's I've seen) he squats to parallel, but doesn't even come close to locking out at the top of the rep. Is that a pretty common practice among bodybuilders?

simbh · 02-22-2005, 04:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke8395

He's not afraid to admit that his squats did suck! But for somebody to be able to put 315 on the bar for the first time (at 180lbs) and crank out 14 reps to *parallel* is pretty damn good either way. The fact that the subject was relatively new to them compounds the seriousness of the PB, if you ask me.

Lol ... Luke I'm starting to think that it was you the subject . Since you kept saying how hard on your system 1-t was ... Plus the weight pretty much corresponds to you ?

LAM · 02-22-2005, 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thatguy

but doesn't even come close to locking out at the top of the rep. Is that a pretty common practice among bodybuilders?

yes, you want to keep constant tension on the target muscle(s)

**Mudge** · 02-22-2005, 05:54 PM

Its also hard to tell sometimes on a big guy what a full range of motion is. Even on someone my size in video what I feel is a full range sometimes doesn't appear to be. When someone racks the weight though sometimes you see a difference.

Tha Don · 02-22-2005, 06:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

yes, you want to keep constant tension on the target muscle(s)

is this why a lot of BBers do partials, or don't use a full ROM on many exercises?

for example in pumping iron you see Lou doing incline BB presses and he barely goes halfway up on each rep apart from the last, same with his millitary presses

i watched ronnies dvd and his rom was very similar, seemed to only use about 50-60% rom on the majority of his lifts (seated should presses stand out)

why do they do this? is it to keep constant tension (i know arnie advocated only going half way up when doing flys to keep the chest under constant tension) or is it because they are so muscle bound they don't have the flexibility to do a full rep?

JerseyDevil · 02-22-2005, 07:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

With a traditional stance a parallel squat is damn near ATF unless you have skinny legs. The crease in your hip must reach the knees, have someone watch you from the side, its pretty damn deep.

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one that noticed this. Some people talk like ATG is a foot below parallel

. There is a well circulated photo of Tom Platz doing a ATG squat. His butt is almost touching his heels, but if you look closely, he is only about an 1" below parallel....

JerseyDevil · 02-22-2005, 07:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke8395

An EXTREMELY significant strength gain resulting in weights on some exercises upped by 50%.

I find this extremely hard to believe unless the 'subject' is new to working out.

Quote:

Although the subject was lethargic, he never came close to ‘shutting down’.

So you have blood work showing before and after testosterone levels to prove that?

Quote:

One week into PCT the Strength gains have barely diminished.

One week?

How about 10 weeks later?

**Mudge** · 02-22-2005, 07:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyDevil

I was beginning to wonder if I was the only one that noticed this. Some people talk like ATG is a foot below parallel

. There is a well circulated photo of Tom Platz doing a ATG squat. His butt is almost touching his heels, but if you look closely, he is only about an 1" below parallel....

I saw the pic of him and Dr. Squat recently and yeah, its not all that much below.

As for being a week into PCT, are we talking 2 week break and then PCT or what? A week post cycle, or even 2 - isn't hardly anything. Yes dbol will half life itself into nothingness quickly, but its not very long at all to be judging it juuuuuuust yet. I am not saying I predict complete failure or anything of the cycle itself, I usually dont post on oral-only cycle posts because I know for me, its a bunk proposition, but I wont say they dont work.

**Mudge** · 02-22-2005, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by young d

why do they do this? is it to keep constant tension (i know arnie advocated only going half way up when doing flys to keep the chest under constant tension) or is it because they are so muscle bound they don't have the flexibility to do a full rep?

I cramp up just trying to wash my hair - first my delts get in the way, and then my bicep cramps trying to bend and pull my arm back against that force, reaching my own face is also a chore. So some of it is just not being able to get out of their own way, moving around itself becomes a chore. Perception of what is a full range of motion seems to change. Watching myself do curls, I can't fold my arm near in half like some people do, and for those guys that have 23-26" arms the problem is going to be much larger.

Without drawing a line from one joint to the next, and/or watching them actually perform a lockout, it is hard to see what full ROM is.

All joking aside, some people are reportedly so large they can't wipe their own ass, and have to resort to "hosing down" in the tub. I am far from having those problems just yet.

Luke8395 · 02-22-2005, 08:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JerseyDevil

I find this extremely hard to believe unless the 'subject' is new to working out.

Why is this so hard to beleive. If you use 20lbs for front raises and feel more comfortable with the 30's, that's a 50% increase.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jersey

So you have blood work showing before and after testosterone levels to prove that?

Guaging by mental and sexual health. Probably not to unlike what a woman would do on her period. Are you telling me that you can't notice a difference when you shift hormonally? Maybe you should breath, count to ten and think about stuff every once and a while.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jersey

One week?

How about 10 weeks later?

Why? Why should anybody bother wasting their time to share something with you? You're just an un-appreciating asshole.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

As for being a week into PCT, are we talking 2 week break and then PCT or what? A week post cycle, or even 2 - isn't hardly anything. Yes dbol will half life itself into nothingness quickly, but its not very long at all to be judging it juuuuuuust yet. I am not saying I predict complete failure or anything of the cycle itself, I usually dont post on oral-only cycle posts because I know for me, its a bunk proposition, but I wont say they dont work.

This cycle was run, and posted for the benefit of others. It's easy to sign onto a board like this and say "oral only" cycle and get bashed.... but I have yet to hear one member on here share their own personal expirience with an oral only cycle. (Now you can)

Sure, it's the cycle of a *relative newby... now lets see an oral only cycle with somebody that has more expirience.

I nominate Jersey. (unless he's afraid he can't squat 315 for 14 reps.)

**Mudge** · 02-22-2005, 11:33 PM

I would encourage an update sometime down the line.

Not sure what you mean by "now you can," as I have no oral only cycle to profess other than 1-T long long ago, which sucked. If you are proposing that I should bash you, I would personally take offense at that, but if you think that is what everyone is here for then I suppose that is your right.

JerseyDevil · 02-23-2005, 04:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Luke8395

02-22-2005, 07:04 AM	#1
Luke8395 Rock da beat Move yerfeet Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 386 Photos: 1	Dbol only cycle, fact or fiction BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com Dbol only cycles, fact and fiction The story we all hear is that a Dbol only will result in water gain, and water loss; nothing more. Decided for yourself…. The cycle- 28 days with 25mg ed of BD (50mg tabs) and 300mg ed of molecular nutrition’s 1-t esterfied. The PCT- Tamoxifen 60mg ed for 2 days, 40mg for 2 weeks, 20mg of 2 weeks. 3.75g of tribulus. Weeks one and two include clen. The diet- F/C/P 20%/50%/30% @ ~ 4,400 calories. The Training-High volume (6 days) The Results- -on cycle 10lbs were gained in the first 2 weeks. 5lbs in the last days of the cycle. Seriously increased vascularity on cycle. An EXTREMELY significant strength gain resulting in weights on some exercises upped by 50%. Although the subject was lethargic, he never came close to ‘shutting down’. -on PCT Four days into PCT, the water weight was completely gone already. (probably the clen). This revealed that the subjects bf% dropped by around 1-2% as well. One week into PCT the Strength gains have barely diminished. There was an estimated 6lb LBM gain from the 28day cycle, and the strength gains never seemed to completely go away. There was a noticible size gain on more than one body part. Comments were made even after water was lost. Please note the Dbol in question is also suspected of being underdosed

02-22-2005, 07:22 AM	#2
brogers Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,237	Impressive
brogers Registered User Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 1,237

02-22-2005, 07:26 AM	#3
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 16,938	How can you compare since he took 1t also?
	www.sbmuscle.com

02-22-2005, 07:49 AM	#4
Stu cooking up a storm Elite Member Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: UK Posts: 1,859 Photos: 1	that subject must be pretty pleased
	Uk bodybuilding

02-22-2005, 08:06 AM	#6
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 16,938	185 to 315 for 14 ain't gonna happen in 28 days. BS
	www.sbmuscle.com

02-22-2005, 07:50 AM	#5
Luke8395 Rock da beat Move yerfeet Join Date: Feb 2005 Posts: 386 Photos: 1	honestly, I think the results are because of the 1-t in conjuction with the Dbol. The subject has run m1t and 1-t cycles in the past with lesser results and NO strength gains. If 1-t allowed people who previous squatted 185 for reps to kick out 315 x 14, I think it would have been alot more popular. Also, leg extensions went from the 200lb range to 300 x 8 From conversations with many gear users, PH/PS/1-t/and m1t are all a joke to them. i'm sure they would consider incorporating one of those into a dbol cycle as a "dbol only" cycle.

02-22-2005, 08:19 AM	#7
musclepump Celebrity PersonalTrainer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,664 Photos: 128	Yeah, it's not a d-bol only cycle when you add 1-t, buddy.
	Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

02-22-2005, 08:28 AM	#8
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	If they started off as a 185 squatter either they didn't train for shit, or were relatively new to training altogether.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

02-22-2005, 12:56 PM	#9
Tha Don Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nottingham, England Posts: 3,826 Photos: 33	awesome luke, i'm gonna follow suit once my 1-ad pct is over running dbol and s1+ for 6-8 weeks, hopefully similar strength gains and BTW to all those who said this is not a true dbol only cycle that may be correct, but i would still put a good 60-70% of what he gained down to the dbol, and he said he never gained strength on 1test before but he made dramatic strength gains w/ dbol thrown in there definately inspired me to run my 1t/4ad and dbol cycle, i'll be running mine like this though weeks 1-4 25mg ed of russians weeks 1-6 or 3-8 S1+ (10-12 sprays ed) i'll be running the s1+ slightly longer than the dbol in an attempt to keep more of the gains from the dbol when i drop it, instead of dropping it right before pct (surely there is a better chance i'll keep the strength if i'm still running s1+ when i come off the dbol), so i'm using the dbol almoast as a kickstart to the s1+ if anyone has any advice for me on this cycle i'd be glad to hear it

02-22-2005, 01:34 PM	#11
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	I dont think I've ever seen a bodybuilder anytime recently do a true parallel squat, most people dont even know what it is. 315x14 is good at that bodyweight, but if someone is new to it and on drugs then yes the improvements are going to be remarkable. If you want serious, get someone who has been training 5+ years to put 70% on a lift, now that would be impressive and I'd want to know how they did it.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

02-22-2005, 01:43 PM	#13
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	I just watched his most recent video again yesterday, on his heavy sets he gets damn close if not fully parallel - hard to tell from the FRONT With a traditional stance a parallel squat is damn near ATF unless you have skinny legs. The crease in your hip must reach the knees, have someone watch you from the side, its pretty damn deep.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

02-22-2005, 02:08 PM	#14
Cardinal Registered User Join Date: Nov 2003 Posts: 1,005	6 lbs keepable lbm in 28 days on dbol + 1-test seems pretty reasonable to me. I build muscle fairly easily and if I did everything perfectly might could match that. On M1t+4AD I managed about 3-5 lbs lbm/30 days (did this on two cycles) and I would expect dbol to give just a pinch more. In such a short time-frame though, only so much muscle can be build. I would like to see similarly controlled results over a 6 week cycle of Dbol only. I imagine strength gains would be even better. Cycles like that are not too terribly different than a lot of guys have done with prohormones over the last few years with decent results.

02-22-2005, 05:54 PM	#18
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	Its also hard to tell sometimes on a big guy what a full range of motion is. Even on someone my size in video what I feel is a full range sometimes doesn't appear to be. When someone racks the weight though sometimes you see a difference.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

02-22-2005, 11:33 PM	#25
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	I would encourage an update sometime down the line. Not sure what you mean by "now you can," as I have no oral only cycle to profess other than 1-T long long ago, which sucked. If you are proposing that I should bash you, I would personally take offense at that, but if you think that is what everyone is here for then I suppose that is your right.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks