Needles,types,sizes, dose again.

Mags · 02-28-2005, 02:04 PM

Needles,types,sizes, dose
Shockingly, another thread from me about needles and other stuff that I'm still unclear on. Mudge and gocock better put their hands over their eyes and not read this as threy'll probably wanna go nuts and come hunt me down

(and I ain't big enough for that yet,ha) as they've probably sick to death of writng or explaining this same old shit, as It is once again about needles and dosages.

Firstly, what does the 'gauge' term mean when talking about needles, is it width/circumference of the pin etc?
Secondly, mudge said something about mixng bacteriostatic water that you add to HCG, what is this all about, I guess that you don't just shoot HCG straight then. If that's the case, if I intend to shoot 500iu's a week, do I (and if so how much) mix it with bacteriostatic water? Soz if I should already know this, but obviously I don't.

I know you need different needles for pulling then injecting, but will I need different size needles for injecting test than i will for the HCG?

From what I gathered from gococks advice, was I could shoot 2ml aweek of test i a 25gauge 1.5inch 3ml needle/syringe, have I got this right? If so, what would I need for HCG shots. Cheers guys.

**Mudge** · 02-28-2005, 02:17 PM

Guage, just like a wire thickness rating. Smaller number, bigger diameter. 0 is often used for car batteries that you see in an auto store, same rule of thumb.

20g for pull, 23-25 for shoot, works great.

HCG comes as freeze dried powder, so no you can't just shoot it. One or maybe more vendors sell it already suspended, but it degrades very quickly this way. Need more info on your HCG to give instructions, but its quite simple.

Example:

5000iu HCG/1cc bac water

1/10th of a cc is therefore 500iu, but it only lasts about 42 days in a fridge, so at 500iu once a week you'd be going 70 days. By that time your HCG will be degrading, to what extent I dont know.

You can find smaller quanity amps, or simply run 500 iu twice a week at your last 5 weeks.

Mags · 03-01-2005, 09:59 AM

I haven't bought ant specific HCG yet as am still only in the planning stages. What would you suggest when it comes to shooting HCG, keep it separate til time to inject then mix it up fresh each time then shoot or is this just time consuming or too impractical?
Could you mix batches at a time, so you could have 2500iu batch for the first few weeks the mix up the last second batch after week 5?

**Mudge** · 03-01-2005, 10:42 AM

I would not advise attempting to cut freeze dried HCG, it would disintegrate with even a single drop of fluid, so touching it with any moisture at all would ruin your whole plans. Plus you would have no way to reseal the amp, and even breaking open the amp without getting glass all over yourself would be near impossible unless you have some strange plan. I used to use cutting wheels, and the debris can quite easily get inside the amp especially if you are cutting the whole thing down the middle to try and extract the HCG "clump."

So just buy seperate amps if you plan to split it like that, they come in smaller than 5k iu quanities.

As for mixing it, I dont think you will find pulling 1/10th of a cc very easy with a standard syringe, there is no purpose even trying to do so. You can fit 2cc of bac water into a standard amp when you prepare the HCG, so if you got 2000iu HCG and bought seperate bac water you could come up with 1/4cc = 500iu, still tough to measure with a standard syringe. Just buy slin pins.

Mags · 03-01-2005, 11:01 AM

how do you mix HCG then please?

**Mudge** · 03-01-2005, 11:03 AM

Slowly inject the bac water down the inside of the amp.

Mags · 03-01-2005, 11:07 AM

Soz, but how big is an amp and is this for a single shot of HCG 500iu etc or for a large batch ( you don't actually get large amps though do you?)?

**Mudge** · 03-01-2005, 11:21 AM

The amps are all the same size, its the quanity that makes a difference.

Look at my first post in your thread.

I have seen HCG in amps: 1500, 2000, 2500, 5000iu

Vials I have seen: 10,000 and 100,000

Mags · 03-01-2005, 01:00 PM

what are resealable containers? Can you get them for these substances or is it once opened, that's it?
I'm sorry if appearing dense, but say I've got an 5000iu amp and bacteriostatic water ( does this come in any size bottle?). If I need to shot only 500iu, where do I go from there?

gococksDJS · 03-01-2005, 01:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mags

what are resealable containers? Can you get them for these substances or is it once opened, that's it?
I'm sorry if appearing dense, but say I've got an 5000iu amp and bacteriostatic water ( does this come in any size bottle?). If I need to shot only 500iu, where do I go from there?

You will get 2 amps. One with the powder HCG in it, and the other with 1ml of bacteriostatic water in it. The easiest way is to open both of them, draw the water up and put it into the powder. If you had a 5000iu amp, and wanted to shoot 500iu's at a time, thats 1/10 so you could pre-load 10 diabetic pins and keep them refrigerated until you needed to use it. Once mixed, HCG doesn't keep for more than about 8-9 weeks at the most I think, so if you have multiple HCG amps, only mix as needed.

musclepump · 03-01-2005, 01:16 PM

what if i wanted to mix it into the amp and leave it instead of loading pins prematurely? Do I need to close the amp or can I even close it? Just like with Test E, after I draw from the amp the first time, how do I close it back up? Or do I need to?

gococksDJS · 03-01-2005, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by musclepump

what if i wanted to mix it into the amp and leave it instead of loading pins prematurely? Do I need to close the amp or can I even close it? Just like with Test E, after I draw from the amp the first time, how do I close it back up? Or do I need to?

with any amp, you can't close it because you break it to open it. It looks like those little stink bombs everyone used to play with in middle school. With HCG, it is much easier just to mix it all at once, because mixing one bit at a time would require you to measure out the powder which would be a huge pain in the ass not to mention that you would need a very sensitive scale. You can put all the bacteriostatic water into the powder and just leave it in the amp until you need it but why risk knocking it over or contaminating it by just leaving it open? it's just a lot easier to pre-load all the HCG into diabetic pins and keep them in the fridge, but with vials of HCG you can just mix it and load as needed.

Mags · 03-02-2005, 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

You will get 2 amps. One with the powder HCG in it, and the other with 1ml of bacteriostatic water in it. The easiest way is to open both of them, draw the water up and put it into the powder. If you had a 5000iu amp, and wanted to shoot 500iu's at a time, thats 1/10 so you could pre-load 10 diabetic pins and keep them refrigerated until you needed to use it. Once mixed, HCG doesn't keep for more than about 8-9 weeks at the most I think, so if you have multiple HCG amps, only mix as needed.

So when you buy HCG, you should get the powder and water together as the complete pack as standard, not having to but Bac water separately?

Secondly, are diabetic pins different from the usual needles and just for shooting (or are they not for shooting just storing?) HCG?

If your gonna be running HCG from wk 3 to wk 9 (of a 10 wk test cycle), that's only 6 weeks so would it be best to buy two 2500iu amps and mix one batch up for the first 3wks and then just do the same for the last 2500iu after for wks 4,5 and 6 or will it just be as good to mix the one batch of 5000iu's and have that pre-loaded for the 6 wks? Phew, I think I got that out the way I meant?

Thanks

gococksDJS · 03-02-2005, 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mags

So when you buy HCG, you should get the powder and water together as the complete pack as standard, not having to but Bac water separately?

Secondly, are diabetic pins different from the usual needles and just for shooting (or are they not for shooting just storing?) HCG?

If your gonna be running HCG from wk 3 to wk 9 (of a 10 wk test cycle), that's only 6 weeks so would it be best to buy two 2500iu amps and mix one batch up for the first 3wks and then just do the same for the last 2500iu after for wks 4,5 and 6 or will it just be as good to mix the one batch of 5000iu's and have that pre-loaded for the 6 wks? Phew, I think I got that out the way I meant?

Thanks

yes, when you buy HCG, you should get both the powder and bac, simply because it doesn't last a long time once in solution. Ive never seen HCG that didn't come with bac, but if you do have to buy it, or if you want to dilute it a little, like say if you have to use a regular syrenge, you can add more bac, which is very cheap.

yes, diabetic pins are quite a bit different from regular ones that you would use to inject test. They usually are 29gauge and the needle is only about 1/2" long. They also don't hold nearly as much liquid as regular syrenges. Mine only hold 1/2 ml, while my regular needles hold 3ml's. It's just easier to store HCG pre-loaded in the diabetic pins as opposed to leaving an open amp in the fridge.

Usually, it's best to have a little extra HCG on hand because if you read a lot of the anabolic journals, you will see that guys regularly adjust their HCG injections depending on whether or not they experience atrophy. Pirate's journal is a good example, because you can see when he felt he needed to add more HCG, and when he felt he needed to cut it back a little.

Mags · 03-02-2005, 10:53 AM

How would you know when to adjust the dosages, your nuts shrinking, nipples hurting (although that's a sign for nolva isn't it) etc?

I take it the diabetic pins are just for storage then and swap them over to bigger needles/syringes when shooting?

I read the other day, how some guy had got pain in an injection site and someone suggested it maybe that he wasn't injecting deep enough. How deep would you push a 1.5 inch needle in, all the way? (i'm guessing this also depends on whether it's glute/quad etc)

gococksDJS · 03-02-2005, 11:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mags

How would you know when to adjust the dosages, your nuts shrinking, nipples hurting (although that's a sign for nolva isn't it) etc?

I take it the diabetic pins are just for storage then and swap them over to bigger needles/syringes when shooting?

I read the other day, how some guy had got pain in an injection site and someone suggested it maybe that he wasn't injecting deep enough. How deep would you push a 1.5 inch needle in, all the way? (i'm guessing this also depends on whether it's glute/quad etc)

You can tell you need more if your testicles still feel small, and if you are still experiencing atrophy. Sore nipples don't have anything to do with HCG, thats gyno. You shoot with the diabetic pins also. You could put the HCG in the same syrenge as test but that would mean diluting it with a bunch more bac, which would be pointless. HCG can be shot intramuscularly, but due to the small amount of liquid, most people inject it subcutaneously, like in the fat around your naval.

You don't want to push the needles all the way in because what if something happens like you pass out, fall and the needle breaks off in your leg? You need to leave a tiny bit sticking out, like a mm or so, just incase it breaks off and you need to pull it out. I push 1.5 pins the same depth in both my glutes and quads and have had no problems.

**Mudge** · 03-02-2005, 11:16 AM

No, you shoot with the insulin pin. Measuring 1/10th of a cc with a standard pin is going to be futile, that is about how much a needle holds.

Buy the right size needle for the job and BOTTOM IT OUT. If you dont, you are likely going to move it around ripping and tearing muscle creating more scar tissue at the depot.

Mags · 03-02-2005, 11:30 AM

[quote=gococksDJS]HCG can be shot intramuscularly, but due to the small amount of liquid, most people inject it subcutaneously, like in the fat around your naval.QUOTE]

Duh! I'm an idiot, I knew that, you told me that before in another thread, soz.

Mags · 03-02-2005, 11:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

No, you shoot with the insulin pin. Measuring 1/10th of a cc with a standard pin is going to be futile, that is about how much a needle holds.

Buy the right size needle for the job and BOTTOM IT OUT. If you dont, you are likely going to move it around ripping and tearing muscle creating more scar tissue at the depot.

What's the difference in a diabetic pin and the insulin one, just the sizes? What are AS's usually shot in then, which type of needle What does bottom it out mean too? Is it just meaning you push the needle all the way in?

gococksDJS · 03-02-2005, 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mags

What's the difference in a diabetic pin and the insulin one, just the sizes? What are AS's usually shot in then, which type of needle What does bottom it out mean too? Is it just meaning you push the needle all the way in?

they are the same thing. Diabetics shoot insulin.

**Mudge** · 03-02-2005, 02:15 PM

Bottom it out, just like a car or truck, means all the way - yes.

Mags · 03-02-2005, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Bottom it out, just like a car or truck, means all the way - yes.

Soz that must be a US thing, lost on me, cheers though dude.

Mags · 03-02-2005, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

No, you shoot with the insulin pin. Measuring 1/10th of a cc with a standard pin is going to be futile, that is about how much a needle holds.

Buy the right size needle for the job and BOTTOM IT OUT. If you dont, you are likely going to move it around ripping and tearing muscle creating more scar tissue at the depot.

^

Mags · 03-02-2005, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

they are the same thing. Diabetics shoot insulin.

Soz, I getcha. Thought it was abit weird, i miss read/interpreted what mudge said. Cheers guys

**Mudge** · 03-02-2005, 02:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mags

Soz that must be a US thing, lost on me, cheers though dude.

Ahh, gotcha.

02-28-2005, 02:04 PM	#1
Mags We ate the toys eddie! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: East London, UK Posts: 883 Photos: 8	Needles,types,sizes, dose again. BODYBUILDING SUPPLEMENTS High Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders and Athletes. www.ironmaglabs.com Needles,types,sizes, dose Shockingly, another thread from me about needles and other stuff that I'm still unclear on. Mudge and gocock better put their hands over their eyes and not read this as threy'll probably wanna go nuts and come hunt me down (and I ain't big enough for that yet,ha) as they've probably sick to death of writng or explaining this same old shit, as It is once again about needles and dosages. Firstly, what does the 'gauge' term mean when talking about needles, is it width/circumference of the pin etc? Secondly, mudge said something about mixng bacteriostatic water that you add to HCG, what is this all about, I guess that you don't just shoot HCG straight then. If that's the case, if I intend to shoot 500iu's a week, do I (and if so how much) mix it with bacteriostatic water? Soz if I should already know this, but obviously I don't. I know you need different needles for pulling then injecting, but will I need different size needles for injecting test than i will for the HCG? From what I gathered from gococks advice, was I could shoot 2ml aweek of test i a 25gauge 1.5inch 3ml needle/syringe, have I got this right? If so, what would I need for HCG shots. Cheers guys.
	BUILD IT, AND THEY WILL COME. THE ONLY TIME SUCCESS COMES BEFORE WORK IS IN THE DICTIONARY. DO OR DO NOT - THERE IS NO TRY.

02-28-2005, 02:17 PM	#2
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	Guage, just like a wire thickness rating. Smaller number, bigger diameter. 0 is often used for car batteries that you see in an auto store, same rule of thumb. 20g for pull, 23-25 for shoot, works great. HCG comes as freeze dried powder, so no you can't just shoot it. One or maybe more vendors sell it already suspended, but it degrades very quickly this way. Need more info on your HCG to give instructions, but its quite simple. Example: 5000iu HCG/1cc bac water 1/10th of a cc is therefore 500iu, but it only lasts about 42 days in a fridge, so at 500iu once a week you'd be going 70 days. By that time your HCG will be degrading, to what extent I dont know. You can find smaller quanity amps, or simply run 500 iu twice a week at your last 5 weeks.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

03-01-2005, 09:59 AM	#3
Mags We ate the toys eddie! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: East London, UK Posts: 883 Photos: 8	I haven't bought ant specific HCG yet as am still only in the planning stages. What would you suggest when it comes to shooting HCG, keep it separate til time to inject then mix it up fresh each time then shoot or is this just time consuming or too impractical? Could you mix batches at a time, so you could have 2500iu batch for the first few weeks the mix up the last second batch after week 5?
	BUILD IT, AND THEY WILL COME. THE ONLY TIME SUCCESS COMES BEFORE WORK IS IN THE DICTIONARY. DO OR DO NOT - THERE IS NO TRY.

03-01-2005, 10:42 AM	#4
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	I would not advise attempting to cut freeze dried HCG, it would disintegrate with even a single drop of fluid, so touching it with any moisture at all would ruin your whole plans. Plus you would have no way to reseal the amp, and even breaking open the amp without getting glass all over yourself would be near impossible unless you have some strange plan. I used to use cutting wheels, and the debris can quite easily get inside the amp especially if you are cutting the whole thing down the middle to try and extract the HCG "clump." So just buy seperate amps if you plan to split it like that, they come in smaller than 5k iu quanities. As for mixing it, I dont think you will find pulling 1/10th of a cc very easy with a standard syringe, there is no purpose even trying to do so. You can fit 2cc of bac water into a standard amp when you prepare the HCG, so if you got 2000iu HCG and bought seperate bac water you could come up with 1/4cc = 500iu, still tough to measure with a standard syringe. Just buy slin pins.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

03-01-2005, 11:01 AM	#5
Mags We ate the toys eddie! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: East London, UK Posts: 883 Photos: 8	how do you mix HCG then please?
	BUILD IT, AND THEY WILL COME. THE ONLY TIME SUCCESS COMES BEFORE WORK IS IN THE DICTIONARY. DO OR DO NOT - THERE IS NO TRY.

03-01-2005, 11:03 AM	#6
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	Slowly inject the bac water down the inside of the amp.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

03-01-2005, 11:07 AM	#7
Mags We ate the toys eddie! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: East London, UK Posts: 883 Photos: 8	Soz, but how big is an amp and is this for a single shot of HCG 500iu etc or for a large batch ( you don't actually get large amps though do you?)?
	BUILD IT, AND THEY WILL COME. THE ONLY TIME SUCCESS COMES BEFORE WORK IS IN THE DICTIONARY. DO OR DO NOT - THERE IS NO TRY.

03-01-2005, 11:21 AM	#8
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	The amps are all the same size, its the quanity that makes a difference. Look at my first post in your thread. I have seen HCG in amps: 1500, 2000, 2500, 5000iu Vials I have seen: 10,000 and 100,000
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

03-01-2005, 01:00 PM	#9
Mags We ate the toys eddie! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: East London, UK Posts: 883 Photos: 8	what are resealable containers? Can you get them for these substances or is it once opened, that's it? I'm sorry if appearing dense, but say I've got an 5000iu amp and bacteriostatic water ( does this come in any size bottle?). If I need to shot only 500iu, where do I go from there?
	BUILD IT, AND THEY WILL COME. THE ONLY TIME SUCCESS COMES BEFORE WORK IS IN THE DICTIONARY. DO OR DO NOT - THERE IS NO TRY.

03-01-2005, 01:16 PM	#11
musclepump Celebrity PersonalTrainer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,664 Photos: 128	what if i wanted to mix it into the amp and leave it instead of loading pins prematurely? Do I need to close the amp or can I even close it? Just like with Test E, after I draw from the amp the first time, how do I close it back up? Or do I need to?
	Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

03-02-2005, 10:53 AM	#15
Mags We ate the toys eddie! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: East London, UK Posts: 883 Photos: 8	How would you know when to adjust the dosages, your nuts shrinking, nipples hurting (although that's a sign for nolva isn't it) etc? I take it the diabetic pins are just for storage then and swap them over to bigger needles/syringes when shooting? I read the other day, how some guy had got pain in an injection site and someone suggested it maybe that he wasn't injecting deep enough. How deep would you push a 1.5 inch needle in, all the way? (i'm guessing this also depends on whether it's glute/quad etc)
	BUILD IT, AND THEY WILL COME. THE ONLY TIME SUCCESS COMES BEFORE WORK IS IN THE DICTIONARY. DO OR DO NOT - THERE IS NO TRY.

03-02-2005, 11:16 AM	#17
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	No, you shoot with the insulin pin. Measuring 1/10th of a cc with a standard pin is going to be futile, that is about how much a needle holds. Buy the right size needle for the job and BOTTOM IT OUT. If you dont, you are likely going to move it around ripping and tearing muscle creating more scar tissue at the depot.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

03-02-2005, 11:30 AM	#18
Mags We ate the toys eddie! Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: East London, UK Posts: 883 Photos: 8	[quote=gococksDJS]HCG can be shot intramuscularly, but due to the small amount of liquid, most people inject it subcutaneously, like in the fat around your naval.QUOTE] Duh! I'm an idiot, I knew that, you told me that before in another thread, soz.
	BUILD IT, AND THEY WILL COME. THE ONLY TIME SUCCESS COMES BEFORE WORK IS IN THE DICTIONARY. DO OR DO NOT - THERE IS NO TRY.

03-02-2005, 02:15 PM	#21
Mudge Pizza the Hut Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Posts: 22,966 Photos: 1	Bottom it out, just like a car or truck, means all the way - yes.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks