jeb

this is from a bro at EF this is his point of view I quite disagree in some of his theory about the subject. What do you guys think and what is your experience with Deca. post it.

It seems that there are so many peeps who bash Deca to no end nowadays, and people who were fucked up from it, either with Deca dick, or had a hell of a time recovering, or gyno, or for whatever reason, they swear they will never touch the stuff again.

This is of couse a personal and individual thing, as many do well with certain compouns, while others not so well. When anyone wants to use nandrolone, people jump over them, and always tell them to use test it seems especially when newbies want to use it. Personally for me, with test I feel side effects more so than the gains. The sides vs gains ratio dosent balance out for me to run heavy test cycles. I have never ran either alone, but I have ran them both without each other before, and have always done better without test as far as gains vs sides go. Correct me if I am wrong .. but wasnt that the whole purpose as to why Deca was ever created in the first place? To produce a steroid that gave the same effects as test (better imo), but without the test side effects?

Anyways, I am willing to bet that the reason why people experience problems with nandrolone, ... is because they dont know how to properly, or effectively, or safely run it. Most people run Deca at too high of a dosage, or too long, or without anything for prolactin, and most importantly in the absense of HCG.

As most people already know ... the ideal way to take nandrolone is as NPP. If you are wanting to experiment with nandrolone, try it as NPP. BigAndy has written a great thread that states all of the MANY reasons why it is favoured over Deca. If you havent read his thread yet, then read it, lot of great info. There are MANY reasons why this is a both a better and safer choice. The biggest reason is that it is basically a much more "effeicient" way to cycle. No "dead" time while waiting for the long acting depots to kick in, or clear. Like test prop for example, you can stop administration of it, if you run into any sides, and start to treat them right away, where with Deca depending on how long you are in, you could be looking at over 4 weeks until it clears.

You also avoid the the cummulative effect of the Deca ester, which compounds when running it for long .. and which is usually what gives people problems. This is why I agree with others in that Deca Durabolin is a drug that should be tapered. Its pretty much the only drug that a handfull of people do a pyramid taper with still. These are the people that never complain of Deca sides or loss of libido. Back in the hay day, when most people used a pyramid taper with deca, no one really complained about libido sides from deca, or the dreaded deca dick. Ask any old school lifter (.. and they have all used it). The wave of complaints started when people switched over to using the same dosage throughout the whole cycle, and not tapering. The cummulative effect with the Deca ester over time will fuck you. So ... for many obvious reasons, NPP is a much better choice. The only disadvantage of it, is the more frequent jabs. However you can get away with shooting it every 3 days, which isnt do bad imo.

The next best thing you can do when running NPP, is run some Cabergoline with it. This is a truley amazing supplement, and I wouldnt think of running Deca, NPP or tren without it.

Cabergoline is a is a relatively new drug from the dopaminergic family of drugs that decreases the hormone prolactin. Prolactin is a HUGE libido killer! Men with high levels of prolactin such as those that suffer from prolactinoma have no sex drive at all. Prolactin is a concern when taking nandrolone/tren. I can't speak enough at how well Cabergoline works. My last run with NPP, my mojo already seemed to be higher than average while taking the NPP. I added some cabergoline to the mix, and it went through the roof! I have stopped it now (off for about 8 wks), and I feel like it has increased my sex drive for good. I feel like i actually have a healthier sex drive now after running the cabergoline and NPP, than before I even started. Maybe I had high prolactin levels before, and the cabergoline leveled them out, who knows, but I am running stronger than ever now. I was more than impressed with Cabergoline, and will be using it again. Orgasm intensity was the absolute craziest though. I felt like I was having multiple organsms each time I bust a nut! lol.

Last but not least .. I would incorporate HCG usage into your nandrolone cycle. Whether you are an advocate of runnning it during your cycle, or for PCT (this is a whole other argument on its own, so run it how you have researched it to be the most effective). I like to run it during PCT as drjmw suggests how it has been reccomended by endocrinologists as the proven method of recovery for years. Many prefer to run it during their cycle though, which is fine in my mind too as long as you dont over do it. However you decide to run it, I would make it the pivitol focus on your planned recovery, use SERMS as a supportive role at best. Several studies are around that show nandrolone actually desensitizes the leydig cells to pituitary hormones. This is why so many people have such a hard time recovering after a cycle with nandrolone in it IF THEY DONT USE HCG. The HPTA may be restored, but the testes have a harder time respond to the LH that's being secreted. You can understand why HCG makes is a good idea with nandrolones. You shouldnt have any problem with recovery.. at all.


I am willing to bet that almost EVERYONE who got fucked up somehow or another from Deca either ..

1. did not run it as NPP (how many people have you heard of that have actually gotten sides from NPP? I have yet to here ONE!).

2. Ran deca for a long period of time.

3. Ran deca at a high dosage (and with no tapering)

4. Did not incorporate HCG usage.

5. Did not take anything for prolactin.

6. Or .. they were using other stuff and stacking it, and could not necessarily pin point their problems on Deca.

When people start chiming in that they got fucked by using nandrolone, I would like to here if all 6 of the above were not an issue for them. I am willing to bet that there is no one who "hates" nandrolone who didnt lookout for the above 6 mentioned facts.

I am a big advocate of NPP, and i think that it will be in all my cycles from now on. Especially for someone like me who is MBP prone. Most people recommend test only for a first cycle. I think that you can make just as good, if not better gains from using NPP to start, with very minimal sides. Stacked with dbol and you should be loving life for pure actuall hypertrophy of muscle fibers, not to much will come close to this stack.

For a first cycle besides the "test only" cycle that almost everyone recommends, I would try an NPP/dbol cycle for a first cycle. THese are my favourite combination of two drugs period. A mild run of these two drugs can work wonders for a person. It really is the ideal stack, and it "should" work for EVERYONE!

I know I always preach this, the big reason why the dbol "should" work for everyone, and why it is so effective, is becuase it is can reduce endogeneous CORTISONE by 50-70%, making it the mother of ALL anti-catabolics (except for tren). This is why dbol really "should" work on everbody. I have seen the studies, posted by FONZ of all people, but they were very interesting. It really doesn't raise test levels that much, (about 5 times your normal level) but it has an unreal impact on muscle catabolism. This is just one of the huge benefits from the dbol.

The NPP stacks SO WELL with the dbol, because while the Dbol is VERY anti-catabolic, the Deca is HIGHLY anabolic. In essence they complement each other perfectly. That is why the old saying of "If you don't grow off Deca/dbol you won't grow of ANYHTHING" is so true, and so forgotton. No matter how fancy you get, it dosent get much better than that. I guess that the only thing that would actually be a more effective stack than deca/dbol, is deca/dbol AND Test! lol. For someone just starting out, and wanting to try NPP as a first cycle I would try something like this....

Wk1-8
NPP: 150mg/e3d
Dbol: 20mg/day

wk1-9: Cabergoline 0.5mg/e4d
wk10: PCT with HCG, (or if you would rather run it during .. go that route)

If you are not starting out, obviously it would make sense to bump the dosages up a bit. I ran NPP at 200mg e3d and found it to be perfect, I wouldnt personally go any higher.

A newbie with everything in check should do quite well with a cycle like this, and they should'nt experience any side effects. If they did, it would more than likely be from the dbol. They could always substitute the dbol for Winstrol or var if they wanted and do quite well also, but they wont be as effective as the dbol stacked with it. Winny is a actually nice compound to stack with it as well, in place of the dbol. I believe hairloss guru is running a cycle similar to that, I would be curious to here how is doing.

If you are smart about how you run nandrolone, you can really reap the benefits of it. I am keeping test to a minimum from here on out. The only test that I will run in my cycles, will be a very small base dosage (like 250/wk). I seem to be more prone to test sides. Especially my hairline, test makes me shed worse than winny for some reason. Nandrolones have 80% less of an effect on the prostate but had 240% greater anabolic effects on skeletal muscle!! Could this be why so many bodybuilders love deca?????? Any old school lifter will swear by Deca. And now ... there is no reason why anyone should really run into any problems using it, especially as NPP form. Just the way that I see it. Hope this might help some of you who were considering running nanrolone but were fraid away from the horror stories.

Cheers,
member

TrojanMan60563

Deca in NPP form? What is NPP?

TrojanMan60563@cyber-rights.net

deeno

Nandrolone Phenylpropionate (NPP)
"Fast Acting" Deca

It's been out for a while Trojan, surprised you haven't heard of it. It's getting some solid feedback as far as I know.

I'm agreeing to what is generally being said. IMO adding a minimum dosage of 250mg test enan per week would be ideal. That was definitely a good read.

TrojanMan60563

Oh I have heard of the short acting deca just didn't realize it was referred to as NPP.

Whats makes it mo betta than the longer ester deca? The results are probably the same just start happening quicker I assume.

The benefit I see to short esters besides faster results is the ability to control sides better. With longer esters it takes so much longer for it to leave the body that if you are getting something undesireable it takes so much longer to correct it.

TrojanMan60563@cyber-rights.net

Mudge

Lots of women use NPP, some guys seem to like it as well.

What makes it better? Its in and out faster thats the only difference really. It would have been nice if they did an enanthate ester or something though. I'm not into the frequent sticks anymore really.

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gococksDJS

In this months MD, they have an article on Nandrolone Cypionate

Mudge

Close enough then, wonder who is turning it out.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

gococksDJS

According to the article, the most common is SYD GROUP, and it also says reports from BBers have been good so far.

Mudge

Well deca is basically deca, tren is tren, and so on. Its the ester thats important to me, so its nice to see a more moderate version out there.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

redspy

This looks like a great ester. NPP needs to be pinned EOD and I assume the Cypionate version would be twice per week.

TrojanMan60563

I would like to give deca another shot if they have an enanthate ester deca. Then you can run it with Test enanthate and everything has the same half life. That would probably be better and more controlled.

TrojanMan60563@cyber-rights.net

TrojanMan60563

I think from now on when I cycle short esters I will limit my cycles to 6 weeks. I really wanna run prop/tren for 6 weeks.

Other then that type of cycle I think test enanthate and deca type cycles for longer periods of time is what I am sticking to. I prefer shooting twice a week vs EOD.

TrojanMan60563@cyber-rights.net

Mudge

I will probably close my current cycle (whenever...) with my test prop for 2 weeks or so, but long term short ester use for me just lost its appeal. I just get tired of the sticks, I am too busy and see no real point to it anymore, for me.

Love how fast they kick in though, but I have no problem using some orals for that purpose for a few weeks.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

Pirate!

Great post, but I'm surprised you shed more hair from test than from d-bol. I wonder if any research companies sell Cabergoline. If anyone knows a good place to get it, please pm me with that info.

Ron Paul

dg806

I think not. Deca is an anabolic drug where Test is androgenic. Totally different.
a single measly 100mg injection of Deca can cause a total (100%) reduction of natural testosterone levels, and it take roughly a month to return those testosterone levels to baseline!
That is why you need to take test with deca. The two work in combo good.
But it does tend to aggrevate progesterone.

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Tha Don

as far as i'm aware test is about 50-50 androgrenic and anabolic, which is why its great for mass and strength, deca is pure anabolic, so its great for mass but not so great for strength

i read this the other day...
is he right? i know very little about proviron but would it be a good idea on a test/deca cycle?