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Best Steroid myths?
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05-23-2005, 03:12 AM
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#31 |
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You Lack Intensity!!!!
Elite Member
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what your failing to realize, well one of many things, mr foreman is that there is a difference between some added aggression and "roid rage" as it were known. They are two very alternate definitions and imply different things. Do I think that its possible for a personto have some added aggression, yes, but that by no means implies that riod rage is a certain side effect. Lookin at both scientific evidence as well as anecdotal evidence, neither can prove whether this agggresion is strickly a placebo or a side effect of other mental charactaristics. So while your spout your opinions about how you are right and everyone else is wrong and foolish, stop and admit that there is almost nothing in this all inclusive game of bodybuilding that is universally true, very little can be held under a blanket statement to be accurate, including your opinion that roid rage is positive. You say you know so and so who experienced one thing, well I know others who haven't, and theres a million others who have different experiences than that even, so enough with he observational science. And one more thing, don't you find it odd that every single god damm thread you enter, you have 5-10 people calling you out, saying your full of shit, yet you refuse to keep an open mind, insisting that you are right and everyone else around is full of shit. something to think about
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05-23-2005, 03:22 AM
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#32 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12,544
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Quote:
Sorry bro but it is not my opinion, it is the medical community's. As far as people calling me out, well it is just a select few arrogant uneducated people. The donut is the worst of you all......Arthur Jones was a nonscientific hack....but he was funny. ...If it were 1257 you would have me killed for thinking the world was not flat. I see you still are too lazy to back up you're opinion with any legitimate data...And one selected author is not enough to change documented medical fact. Last edited by TJ Cline : 05-23-2005 at 06:48 AM. |
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05-23-2005, 03:40 AM
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#33 |
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You Lack Intensity!!!!
Elite Member
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did you even read what I wrote, jesus, remove the lips from around your own cock long enough to form a rational thought. Btw what have you posted of any fact? this is funny, I was trying to give you a chance to validate your position. I agreed that aggression is a by-product. The world according to you is quite interesting son, everyone that disagrees with your claims and stances is ignorant or uneducated. Go ahead and test my knowledge of AAS, bodybuilding or strength training, since you are so smart b/c passed your little Anatomy class at Roody-Poo community college
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05-23-2005, 03:41 AM
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#34 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12,544
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I can't wait until Mudge and gr81 give us their research ( I'm sure not just 1 study, but many) on how steroids have no relation to muscle growth, or have no purpose in medicine today. Teach us with you're infinite wisdom.........................please.
Validate my position???? no it is the medical worlds opinion not mine...I just quoted it.OMFG Last edited by TJ Cline : 05-23-2005 at 06:50 AM. |
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05-23-2005, 03:48 AM
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#35 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12,544
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Quote:
 If this was 1233 during the papal inquisition you would be the man.... |
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05-23-2005, 04:09 AM
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#36 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 472
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05-23-2005, 04:21 AM
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#37 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 472
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Users on this board seem to quickly slander you if you regard one scientific fact/study which "attacks" steroids and then they quote another person/doctors study that "defends" them, end of the day most users will go with the "defence" study as they have biased views on their use.
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05-23-2005, 04:56 AM
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#38 | |
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You Lack Intensity!!!!
Elite Member
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05-23-2005, 05:01 AM
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#39 |
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You Lack Intensity!!!!
Elite Member
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Anabolic/Androgenic Steroid Use and Aggression I: A Review of the Evidence
by Jack Darkes, PhD Assistant Professor, Department of Psychology (excerp)... Even a cursory search of the psychological and psychiatric literature finds it replete with empirical reports and case studies suggesting that AAS users score more highly than the norm on personality scales measuring hostility. Regardless of this seeming consensus, it has recently been acknowledged that, although AAS use and aggression are correlated, the full extent and nature of the relationship remains unexplained and a clear inference of causality cannot be drawn (Beel, Maycock, & McLean, 1998). For instance, Riem and Hursey (1995) presaged Dabbs’ (1996) sentiments regarding T and aggression, but in relation to AAS use, commenting that "In sum, not all AAS users exhibit aggressive behavior, even though all experience increases in sex steroids (p. 250)." Although AAS use is reportedly widespread (see Brower, 1992), relatively few AAS users exhibit overtly aggressive behavior (rage). Factors that might underlie this variability will be discussed later in this series. The literature on endogenous T and aggression/hostility provides little assistance in clarifying the potential AAS/aggression relationship in humans for a number of reasons. First, in contrast to endogenous T, AAS use is a behavioral choice. Hence, it is not randomly distributed within the population and AAS users are likely to differ from nonusers. Secondly, AAS ingestion and injection are not simply physical or chemical events, but also behavioral events, part of a sub-culture and a ritual. The literature on AAS use and aggression encompasses a range of research methods. As with most drug use literature, it is heavily laden with descriptive statistics. For example, lifetime prevalence of AAS use has been reported as 9.1% for males in Great Britain (Korkia & Stimson, 1997). Between 4% and 11% of males in the U.S. have tried AAS (Brower, 1992). And 6.3% of high school football players in Indiana are current or former AAS users (Stilger & Yesalis, (1999). [For a full review of the epidemiology of AAS use see Yesalis, Kennedy, Kopstein, & Bahrke (1993).] An abundance of anecdotal "personal stories" appear in the popular bodybuilding press (e.g., Lefavi, 1998) and case studies are also frequent in the scientific literature (e.g., Corrigan, 1996; Pope & Katz, 1990; Schulte, Hall, & Boyer, 1993; Wilson-Fearon & Parrott, 1999). These data represent naturalistic evidence of this relationship. Evidence from such reports, while rich in individual detail, contributes little to an understanding of the relationship between AAS use and aggression in the larger population. They are biased in that any number of characteristics might differentiate such individuals from the general population besides their use of AAS, again highlighting the difficulty in attempting to speculate about "normal" processes, pharmacological or psychological, in "abnormal" cases. Nonetheless, such cases constitute the majority of the evidence to which the populace is exposed. More rigorous studies involve the observation of the concurrent correlation between variables within large groups (empirical research) or comparisons between existing groups on concurrent measures (cross-sectional research). Changes in relationships may be evaluated over time, either within or between existing groups (longitudinal or prospective studies). Lastly, treatments (i.e., the administration of AAS/placebo) may be applied to either pre-existing groups (quasi-experimental designs) or to groups of randomly assigned subjects (true experimental designs) who are then evaluated over time. Empirical and Case Studies. A substantial amount of empirical research supports the AAS/aggression relationship. For instance, AAS users report higher levels of anger-arousal and hostile outlook than a group that never used AAS (Lefavi, Reeve, & Newland, 1990). Interestingly, data collected from former AAS users was not reported, so it is uncertain if they differed reliably from either group. AAS users exhibit increased instances of mood disorder (Pope & Katz, 1994), higher scores on aggression scales on personality measures (Galligani, Renck, & Hansen, 1996; Yates, Perry, & Murray, 1992) and measures of mood (Bond, Choi, & Pope, 1995). Nonetheless, as with the T/aggression relationship, findings of reliable differences in psychometrically assessed psychological characteristics between AAS users and non-users are not universal (e.g., Malone, Dimeff, Lombardo, & Sample, 1995; Swanson, 1989). Several case studies (e.g., Pope & Katz, 1990) and retrospective evaluations of forensic records (e.g., Thilbin, Kristiansson, & Rajs, 1997) have also reported associations between AAS and aggression or other psychopathology. However, as noted previously, generalizing from case study data or criminal index cases to the larger population is, at best, a tenuous proposition. The majority of the empirical and case studies suffer from methodological flaws, such as inconsistent operationalizations of aggression and differing psychometric measures (Bahrke, Yesalis, & Wright, 1996), making comparisons across studies difficult. Most rely exclusively on self-report measures of aggression, a method susceptible to several sources of bias. And, as mentioned earlier, inferring causation using such data is problematic in that AAS use is not randomly distributed in the population. The choice to use AAS, potentially at high doses, is likely to be confounded with a number of predisposing individual differences. For example, current or past AAS users might value aggression and consider aggressive responding a desirable outcome. Ultimately, the data are largely inconsistent and inconclusive (Uzych, 1992) and a causal relationship between AAS use and aggression has not been established (Isacsson & Bergman, 1993).... the rest of the article http://www.mesomorphosis.com/article...ression-01.htm |
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05-23-2005, 05:02 AM
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#40 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12,544
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Quote:
I love it you're only valid point is a term (roid rage) I never used that term. I just commented on it .....If you like I will call it aggression.....there do you still want to tell me the PDR is only an opinion. Last edited by TJ Cline : 05-23-2005 at 06:55 AM. |
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05-23-2005, 05:28 AM
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#41 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12,544
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Quote:
Last edited by TJ Cline : 05-23-2005 at 06:56 AM. |
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05-23-2005, 05:32 AM
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#42 |
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You Lack Intensity!!!!
Elite Member
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zero mediocal facts? what is the article I JUST posted, which, btw is authored by a PhD, did you even read it? I am too set in my ways to listen to what, you ain't saying shit. Where are your studies and articles backin' your claims since you keep mentioning every post that I need an source, where are yours I say? In fact what are your claims even? Do you even know what your arguing about, for all you know if you pulled your 33 lb head out of your candy ass you might see things logically, but probably not. you keep saying the same shit to no end, but you aren't actually saying anything except "medical fact' and "intelligent discussion". I am ready to debate issues, not hop on and off this merry-go-round with you about who knows what. Either state your belief and sustain it with some factual information or stop posting like you actually impress the gr81. jesus christ son get serious or shut your little lips
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05-23-2005, 05:37 AM
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#43 | ||
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You Lack Intensity!!!!
Elite Member
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05-23-2005, 05:45 AM
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#44 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12,544
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Quote:
All I said was that the PDR states that testosterone has a side effect of added aggression.....so tell me how is the PDR wrong...you see for the third time it's not my opinion but commonplace medical fact. So tell me where you differ with the PDR, and why. Last edited by TJ Cline : 05-23-2005 at 06:57 AM. |
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05-23-2005, 06:03 AM
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#45 | ||
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You Lack Intensity!!!!
Elite Member
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Quote:
Quote:
[/quote]All I said was that the PDR states that testosterone has a side effect of added aggression.....so tell me how is the PDR wrong...you see for the third time it's not my opinion but commonplace medical fact. So tell me where you differ with the PDR, and why. [quote] dude seriously you are not even paying attention, I already went over this twice dammit. I already agreed there is a correlation, did I not? But the correlation is unlcear, no one can pinpoint exactly what it means in relation to human bahavior, so to say that roid rage is a side effect of AAS use is inconslusive and insufficient. There are too many factors varying including what type of people even choose to use AAS in the first place, what possible underlying psychological issues a person may have when overt instances of aggression occur, what even increased aggression means in terms of psychiatric behavior and what type of doses propegate supposed aggression. I could go on and on and on, but your probably not even listening. My point is to say that aggression or roid rage is a definate problematic side effect of AAS would mean that every sinlge person exogenously using AAS would theoretically have to experience this, and if not what determines who exeriences and who doesn't, then we have to go into why and what factors influence that, and so on and so on, so to make a universal statement as you are is not condusive to the conversation now is it. Aggression is linked with a higher T level, but the correlation is not fully understood so any further unsubstantiated claims are purely speculation. are you satisfied, do you see my point? |
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05-23-2005, 06:06 AM
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#46 | |
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Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12,544
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Quote:
Last edited by TJ Cline : 05-24-2005 at 03:04 AM. |
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05-23-2005, 06:13 AM
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#47 |
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You Lack Intensity!!!!
Elite Member
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you quoted the wrong message,that was from a numerb of posts ago. Did you even read the response I gave you answering yrou question? This discussion (if you want to call it that) has nothing to do with the plane of the earth btw. you say medical science, pal medical science concludes that the correlation between aggression and test is murky and you can't prove otherwise. do me a favor and read my last post, find out what you disagree with specifically, and refute it. Think you can handle actually debating an issue and not just posturing around it like a pompous ass? be specific
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05-23-2005, 06:18 AM
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#48 |
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Member
Join Date: May 2005
Posts: 12,544
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Correlation??? OMG it is a documented medical fact and you agree there is a correlation.....wow...
Its so funny that you have spent all this time arguing with me over nothing. If you chose to disregard time tested facts in the PDR ( and other widely respected publications) regarding drugs, then have at it. I just don't know what you're problem is and at this point I don't care. Pick and chose what you want to believe...But when you're Doctor tells you not to take 100 aspirin a day, you tell him there is a correlation but that the jury is still out. Last edited by TJ Cline : 05-24-2005 at 02:59 AM. |
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05-23-2005, 09:21 AM
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#50 |
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Dieting I swear!
Super Moderator
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Hey Foreman, who puts out PDRs - PUBLISHERS. My PDR has no such data and it is about 2 years old.
You need to chill out and stop thinking everyone is out to cut your nuts off, this is the damn internet. RELAX. Nobody is attacking you just because we disagree with your 1960s cycling theories. And stop discounting the STUDY I posted while you posted NOTHING. The PDR is a reference, not a bible. They are outdated by the time they hit print, and they are not entirely factual, and nor do they agree with one another. However it is probably wise of them to print even theoretical side effects so long as it doesn't get them sued for doing so (by attacking brands or copyrighted drugs without data). |
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Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks |
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05-23-2005, 09:24 AM
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#51 | |
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Dieting I swear!
Super Moderator
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Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks |
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05-23-2005, 10:18 AM
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#53 |
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Registered User
Join Date: Jul 2004
Posts: 1,401
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From the 1996 NEJM study of men given 600mg of Testosterone Enathate...
"Neither mood nor behavior was altered in any group." http://content.nejm.org/cgi/content/short/335/1/1 |
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