Advice needed on this 1st cycle

whiffin · 06-02-2005, 06:39 AM

OKay, I'm 26. 5'8", 18.5% BF, 179lbs and am going to start a bulking cycle in a month or two.

My diet/routine/rest will be nailed perfectly.

The cycle I was thinking of was:

Weeks 1-4: Dbol at 30mg day
Weeks 1-11: Sust at 500mg week

Then 2 weeks off, then for PCT:

Weeks 14-16: Nolva @ 20mg day
Weeks 14-16: Clomid, varying dosages totaling 1800mg in 3 weeks

Keep 500mg Nolva on hand in case of gyno.

1. I am unsure whether to take 10mg/day Nolva throughout weeks 1-16 to prevent bloating, good or bad idea?

2. I have a high altitude cycling trip organised. 3500-4500m, 10-14 days in Peru, 5 days on the saddle. I know that bulking will not do my CV any good, but .... which cycle do you guys think is best ...

a) As above, and ensure that my last jab is before I leave. Then I can treat my high CV trip as a post-bulk cutting exercise when I still have test in my blood. I'll start PCT 2 weeks later when I return. I could take Nolva with me if needed.

b) Swap weeks 9-11 from Sust to somethink like Prop with a shorter half life. Then I can start PCT a day or two after my last jab. Work it so that PCT finishes a few days before my trip.

Will a) or b) be better, in your opinion, and why. I'd like to keep as much gains as I can, obviously.

I don't want to wait until after my trip as I'll probably be doing another cycle end January ...

This will be my first cycle

All ideas appreciated

Thanks

**Pirate!** · 06-02-2005, 06:50 AM

You should do a short cutting cycle that allows you to finsish a month of pct 2 weeks before your cycle trip. If you do that cycle trip during pct, you will lose all your gains. When does your cycle trip begin? Your nolva dose during pct is way too small.

whiffin · 06-02-2005, 07:05 AM

Really want to bulk not cut though ... I am fine to finish PCT before I leave (27th Sep) - and will take me 2 weeks to get gear.

That's why I though substituting sust for prop so I can start PCT earlier.

How's about

Weeks 1-4 Dbol @ 30mg/day
Weeks 1-6 Sust @ 500mg/week
Weeks 7-9 Prop @ 500mg/week
Weeks 1-9 Nolva @ 10mg/day

Then a few days off (as prop disappears quickly and sust and dbol already gone), then for PCT

Weeks 1-3: Nolva 20mg/day
Weeks 1-3 Clomid (varying amounts averaging 600mg/week)

Then 2 weeks off (still bulking)

Then go to Peru and cut a little - natural ...

I could fit that in, would it work?

What dosage of Nolva would you suggest for PCT? Bear in mind that I have clomid also ...

**Pirate!** · 06-02-2005, 08:40 AM

If you transistion from sustanon to prop like that, you will have too much test in your system during week 7 because you will have most of the sustanon still in your system. If you haven't ordered your gear yet, why not go with Test Cyp or Test Enan? This would be a better choice than sustanon.

PCT should last atleast 4 weeks, and your nolva dose should be closer to 60mg/day for the first few weeks. Don't cut calories or do cardio (or biking) during pct or you will lose your muscle.

LAM · 06-02-2005, 08:41 AM

bulking at 18% is a VERY bad idea. your insullin sensitivity is already low and the additon of anabolics/adrogenic steroids is only going to decrease your glucose tolerance even more. using steroids at higher bf levels will results is far less than optimum gains.

whiffin · 06-02-2005, 09:06 AM

Quote:

If you transistion from sustanon to prop like that, you will have too much test in your system during week 7 because you will have most of the sustanon still in your system.

Hmmmn, that's true, could I not knock week 7 out, or at least have a low dosage of Prop instead.

Quote:

If you haven't ordered your gear yet, why not go with Test Cyp or Test Enan? This would be a better choice than sustanon.

From what I've been reading people have been rating Sust very highly over other kinds of test for newbies. Why would Test Cyp or Test Enan be better? - please educate me

Quote:

PCT should last atleast 4 weeks, and your nolva dose should be closer to 60mg/day for the first few weeks. Don't cut calories or do cardio (or biking) during pct or you will lose your muscle.

Gotcha, increasing Nolva is easy. Will it be OK to cut calories and do cardio a week or two AFTER PCT?

Quote:

Bulking at 18% is a VERY bad idea. your insullin sensitivity is already low and the additon of anabolics/adrogenic steroids is only going to decrease your glucose tolerance even more. using steroids at higher bf levels will results is far less than optimum gains.

You think I should rethink my plan completely and cut? I want to get bigger more than lose weight though ... after the cycle will PCT not put glucose tolerance etc back to normal?

Cheers guys, you're helping a lot

LAM · 06-02-2005, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiffin

You think I should rethink my plan completely and cut? I want to get bigger more than lose weight though ... after the cycle will PCT not put glucose tolerance etc back to normal?

Cheers guys, you're helping a lot

steroids are most effective when the user has low-medium body fat. when the body has low-medium body fat it is a good sign that insulin sensivity is high (glucose tolerance is also high). that has a positive effect on nutrient partitioning, which means more nutrients to the muscles cells and less to the fat cells. when body fat is high just the opposite occurs. it's very easy to go from 18 to 21-22% body fat when bulking. which is no where that you want to be.

whiffin · 06-02-2005, 09:39 AM

OKay, I'll be honest, I haven't looked into cutting ...

If I changed my cycle to a cutting cycle, quite like to get Winstrol in there. Don't know if this should replace or be in addition to DBol and Sust though...

You can see my time scales ... and I wanna get bigger eventually, certainly want to gain muscle even if on a cut.

What could I change in order to make this an effective cutting cycle, I know it's more down to diet etc .... but I know different roids can make a difference.

From what I've been reading, with my above bulk I could gain 14-28 lbs of bulk, keeping 7-14 lbs of lean mass if I was very careful etc. Would expected BF to raise a bit, but not if I was careful with my diet and watched what was happenning. What sort of results could I expect from a cutting cycle?

I do not want to sacrifice what I currently have for cutting, infact even when cutting I want to put on muscle.

Ideas???

Thanks

LAM · 06-02-2005, 09:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiffin

OKay, I'll be honest, I haven't looked into cutting ...

If I changed my cycle to a cutting cycle, quite like to get Winstrol in there. Don't know if this should replace or be in addition to DBol and Sust though...

You can see my time scales ... and I wanna get bigger eventually, certainly want to gain muscle even if on a cut.

What could I change in order to make this an effective cutting cycle, I know it's more down to diet etc .... but I know different roids can make a difference.

From what I've been reading, with my above bulk I could gain 14-28 lbs of bulk, keeping 7-14 lbs of lean mass if I was very careful etc. Would expected BF to raise a bit, but not if I was careful with my diet and watched what was happenning. What sort of results could I expect from a cutting cycle?

I do not want to sacrifice what I currently have for cutting, infact even when cutting I want to put on muscle.

Ideas???

Thanks

how many cycles have you done ?

whiffin · 06-02-2005, 10:16 AM

I'm a still a virgin in this respect ....

LAM · 06-02-2005, 10:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiffin

I'm a still a virgin in this respect ....

well that makes it easy.

Week 1-10 : test enanthate @ 500 mg/wk
Week 1-03 : T3 @ 25 mcg/ED
Week 4-10 : T3 @ 50 mcg/ED

Tha Don · 06-02-2005, 10:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whiffin

From what I've been reading people have been rating Sust very highly over other kinds of test for newbies. Why would Test Cyp or Test Enan be better? - please educate me

http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=48683 (The proper use of Sustanon - Good read)

06-02-2005, 06:39 AM	#1
whiffin Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6	Advice needed on this 1st cycle OKay, I'm 26. 5'8", 18.5% BF, 179lbs and am going to start a bulking cycle in a month or two. My diet/routine/rest will be nailed perfectly. The cycle I was thinking of was: Weeks 1-4: Dbol at 30mg day Weeks 1-11: Sust at 500mg week Then 2 weeks off, then for PCT: Weeks 14-16: Nolva @ 20mg day Weeks 14-16: Clomid, varying dosages totaling 1800mg in 3 weeks Keep 500mg Nolva on hand in case of gyno. 1. I am unsure whether to take 10mg/day Nolva throughout weeks 1-16 to prevent bloating, good or bad idea? 2. I have a high altitude cycling trip organised. 3500-4500m, 10-14 days in Peru, 5 days on the saddle. I know that bulking will not do my CV any good, but .... which cycle do you guys think is best ... a) As above, and ensure that my last jab is before I leave. Then I can treat my high CV trip as a post-bulk cutting exercise when I still have test in my blood. I'll start PCT 2 weeks later when I return. I could take Nolva with me if needed. b) Swap weeks 9-11 from Sust to somethink like Prop with a shorter half life. Then I can start PCT a day or two after my last jab. Work it so that PCT finishes a few days before my trip. Will a) or b) be better, in your opinion, and why. I'd like to keep as much gains as I can, obviously. I don't want to wait until after my trip as I'll probably be doing another cycle end January ... This will be my first cycle All ideas appreciated Thanks
whiffin Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6

06-02-2005, 06:50 AM	#2
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 5,817	You should do a short cutting cycle that allows you to finsish a month of pct 2 weeks before your cycle trip. If you do that cycle trip during pct, you will lose all your gains. When does your cycle trip begin? Your nolva dose during pct is way too small.
	Two roads diverged in a wood, and I— I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference.

06-02-2005, 07:05 AM	#3
whiffin Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6	Really want to bulk not cut though ... I am fine to finish PCT before I leave (27th Sep) - and will take me 2 weeks to get gear. That's why I though substituting sust for prop so I can start PCT earlier. How's about Weeks 1-4 Dbol @ 30mg/day Weeks 1-6 Sust @ 500mg/week Weeks 7-9 Prop @ 500mg/week Weeks 1-9 Nolva @ 10mg/day Then a few days off (as prop disappears quickly and sust and dbol already gone), then for PCT Weeks 1-3: Nolva 20mg/day Weeks 1-3 Clomid (varying amounts averaging 600mg/week) Then 2 weeks off (still bulking) Then go to Peru and cut a little - natural ... I could fit that in, would it work? What dosage of Nolva would you suggest for PCT? Bear in mind that I have clomid also ...
whiffin Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6

06-02-2005, 08:40 AM	#4
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 5,817	If you transistion from sustanon to prop like that, you will have too much test in your system during week 7 because you will have most of the sustanon still in your system. If you haven't ordered your gear yet, why not go with Test Cyp or Test Enan? This would be a better choice than sustanon. PCT should last atleast 4 weeks, and your nolva dose should be closer to 60mg/day for the first few weeks. Don't cut calories or do cardio (or biking) during pct or you will lose your muscle.
	Two roads diverged in a wood, and I— I took the one less traveled by, And that has made all the difference.

06-02-2005, 08:41 AM	#5
LAM Gym ratt/Part-time pimp Join Date: May 2002 Location: Las Vegas, NV Posts: 7,384 Photos: 2	bulking at 18% is a VERY bad idea. your insullin sensitivity is already low and the additon of anabolics/adrogenic steroids is only going to decrease your glucose tolerance even more. using steroids at higher bf levels will results is far less than optimum gains.
	Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov TBD ----------------------------------------------------- What you talking about Willis ?

06-02-2005, 09:39 AM	#8
whiffin Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6	OKay, I'll be honest, I haven't looked into cutting ... If I changed my cycle to a cutting cycle, quite like to get Winstrol in there. Don't know if this should replace or be in addition to DBol and Sust though... You can see my time scales ... and I wanna get bigger eventually, certainly want to gain muscle even if on a cut. What could I change in order to make this an effective cutting cycle, I know it's more down to diet etc .... but I know different roids can make a difference. From what I've been reading, with my above bulk I could gain 14-28 lbs of bulk, keeping 7-14 lbs of lean mass if I was very careful etc. Would expected BF to raise a bit, but not if I was careful with my diet and watched what was happenning. What sort of results could I expect from a cutting cycle? I do not want to sacrifice what I currently have for cutting, infact even when cutting I want to put on muscle. Ideas??? Thanks
whiffin Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6

06-02-2005, 10:16 AM	#10
whiffin Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6	I'm a still a virgin in this respect ....
whiffin Registered User Join Date: Jun 2005 Posts: 6

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