how old?

Brandon · 08-20-2005, 11:04 PM

I've been lifting for about 6 months now. I have lifted on and off for a few years though. I've got good gains naturally. I had never really considered juice until I talked to a guy at work who has been doing it for several years.

I haven't really decided if/when I'll start this, but I've done a lot of reading online, and most places seem to agree that 21 is a decent age to start. In threads on here, it seems like most people on this board think it should be later than that? My question is why.

MuscleM4n · 08-20-2005, 11:07 PM

21 is fine

BUT

6 months is NOT enough gym experience.

train naturally for another 1/2 years...eat more, train harder - you will be surprised by the gains.

You need PATIENCE

Just remember "bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint"

moneymaker · 08-20-2005, 11:07 PM

The only reason I can figure is that the average man reaches maturity in all aspects of his body by the age of 21. It is safe to have a little leway.

MuscleM4n · 08-20-2005, 11:09 PM

their is a difference between maturity and muscle maturity

21 age is OK for somebody who started training in their teens

NOT ok if only training for 6 months, you wouldn't have enough experience.

Just my opinion take it or leave it but that's the basic truth

Brandon · 08-20-2005, 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moneymaker

The only reason I can figure is that the average man reaches maturity in all aspects of his body by the age of 21. It is safe to have a little leway.

that's what i figured.

i never said 6 months was enough gym experience. i didn't say i was starting now. i was just wondering why people say 21.

MuscleM4n · 08-20-2005, 11:20 PM

the reason most people consider at 21 is nothing to do with maturity

at this age the plates in your spine have fused fully and you will most likely no longer grow in height, so steriods can no longer have an effect of closing your growth plates before they are fully developed.

(Basically steriod use in teens will close the groth plates due to increase in Testosterone)

Testosterone has a direct link with height:

Did you know what the treatment for excessively tall height is in boys? They inject the sex hormone testosterone. This reduces final height. For girls, they use the sex hormone estrogen.

The sex hormones cause rapid growth and then rapid cessation of growth of the bones. So being tall does not mean a person has low sex hormone levels. But continuing to grow well into the 20s is a good sign that sex hormone levels are low.

So to sum it up if you take steriods in your teens the extra Test will stop you from gaining in natural height but once you reach 21 you have generally reached your natural height anyway

**Mudge** · 08-21-2005, 01:08 AM

Estrogen is what closes growth plates, aromitization takes care of that.

People need to know what they are doing with both diet and training in order to not be wasting their time on juice, and using higher doses thinking that is a solution. What the user discovers, is frustration.

I've come across more than one person who has done 1 and 2 gram a week cycles their first time, because they think that is the key. Some of those people do not cycle any longer because they discovered, they were wrong.

MuscleM4n · 08-21-2005, 02:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mudge

Estrogen is what closes growth plates, aromitization takes care of that.

People need to know what they are doing with both diet and training in order to not be wasting their time on juice, and using higher doses thinking that is a solution. What the user discovers, is frustration.

I've come across more than one person who has done 1 and 2 gram a week cycles their first time, because they think that is the key. Some of those people do not cycle any longer because they discovered, they were wrong.

Yes i agree mudge¬!

People need to learn about call receptors before they do stupid things like a gram a week first cycle.
They would get downgraded too fast!

The pros mostly all started with low doses got big mainly from training and all about chemical nutrition (food) then they upped the dose they got bigger keeping their receptors fresh at the start.

The main factor is diet.

"Food is the most anabolic substance"

**Mudge** · 08-21-2005, 09:52 AM

Receptors actually upgrade, but that wasn't my point. My point is what you cover later, that diet is more important. Without the diet and training in place gear will be a waste of time for most people. They get the negative side effects without the positives and wonder why.

LAM · 08-21-2005, 01:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuscleM4n

Did you know what the treatment for excessively tall height is in boys? They inject the sex hormone testosterone. This reduces final height. For girls, they use the sex hormone estrogen.

The sex hormones cause rapid growth and then rapid cessation of growth of the bones. So being tall does not mean a person has low sex hormone levels. But continuing to grow well into the 20s is a good sign that sex hormone levels are low.

So to sum it up if you take steriods in your teens the extra Test will stop you from gaining in natural height but once you reach 21 you have generally reached your natural height anyway

do you have any medical stuides that state the same ? I've have never seen any mention of using testosterone or estrogen for such purposes

MuscleM4n · 08-21-2005, 01:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAM

do you have any medical stuides that state the same ? I've have never seen any mention of using testosterone or estrogen for such purposes

Here it is:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...404&query_hl=3

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...294&query_hl=3

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...370&query_hl=3

Brandon · 08-21-2005, 11:23 PM

so, mudge (or anyone else...), it's basically to insure that everything else is in place? like, eating, diet, sleep?

**Mudge** · 08-22-2005, 01:13 AM

IMO yes. It can take years for a person to get to know all that stuff. I lifted for quite a long time before I even discovered diet was really so important, in fact juice helped increase my awareness of this fact.

Diet can be from simple to complex, depending how stubborn your body is. See-food bulkers are common with some people new to juice, then they gain fat and their blood pressure reaches very unhealthy levels, and they wonder what they did wrong.

So plenty of research should be put into diet and training, if you expect to get the most results out of your goods. Some people end up trying to compensate with very high doses, at small bodyweights, which is also not healthy.

LAM · 08-22-2005, 01:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MuscleM4n

Here it is:

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...404&query_hl=3

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...294&query_hl=3

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...370&query_hl=3

this study says the exact opposite.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/q...371&query_hl=4

MuscleM4n · 08-22-2005, 03:07 AM

their is conflicting information for everything in this world.

Sleeping, eating and training - get these up to tee and you will have no more worries about putting on size.

If their are brothers who are twins, one goes on juice but has shit training and diet( twin A) . The other twin trains naturally but has a good diet and training (twin B)

Twin A will make less gains than twin B. Even is twin A ups the dose his gains will not last bwcuase as soon as he comes off juice he will not have learned the principles of keeping muscle so most pf his gains will be lost.

TJ Cline · 08-22-2005, 10:03 AM

21 or older, and 4+ years of solid and consistent training.

LexusGS · 08-22-2005, 10:16 AM

y u wonna do this to yourself?

gococksDJS · 08-22-2005, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LexusGS

y u wonna do this to yourself?

Are you speaking to the original poster or to people who use anabolics in general? Just wanted to clear that up before I possibly let loose on yet another misinformed person.

eastbaylifter · 08-22-2005, 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

Are you speaking to the original poster or to people who use anabolics in general? Just wanted to clear that up before I possibly let loose on yet another misinformed person.

Dude, lighten up. Sounds like you're already preparing for a fight. He's just asking why they do it. Yet you've already jumped to the conclusion that he's "misinformed" just because he asked about peoples' motivations.

That's the whole reason I stay out of these types of discussions....too much defensiveness among AS users.

buildingup · 08-22-2005, 02:58 PM

its roid rage

Tough Old Man · 08-22-2005, 02:59 PM

Ding, Ding, Ding round one has begun

gococksDJS · 08-22-2005, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eastbaylifter

Dude, lighten up. Sounds like you're already preparing for a fight. He's just asking why they do it. Yet you've already jumped to the conclusion that he's "misinformed" just because he asked about peoples' motivations.

That's the whole reason I stay out of these types of discussions....too much defensiveness among AS users.

Dude, bro, dog you listen up. I am not preparing for a fight. I just can't stand when people like Lexus who don't know shit about steroids say dumbass things like "Hopefully you won't die from steroid use by age 25" which is what he said in the open forum. That type of ignorance just proves my point that he knows nothing about steroid use. Can you tell me how many people have died directly from anabolic steroid use like Lexus is babbling about? None. Saying "Why do you want to do this to yourself" is not asking about someone's motivations. He makes it sound like every time someone uses steroids, it takes years of their life and degrades their health and slowly kills them. I am not trying to start a fight, im just saying whether it is you, Lexus or anyone who posts about steroids, if you are going to do that, know what your talking about because you sound like a fuckhead saying that steroids kill you when plenty of guys on here have used them for decades and are very healthy. It's not defensiveness among AS users, it's AS users sick and tired of people who know nothing about what we do telling us that we are going to die or roid rage will make us kill people or our dicks are going to fall off, or some other stupid shit that they read about in the paper. How about you educate yourself about steroids, then listen to the crap that a bunch of misinformed kids throw at you and tell me if it doesn't piss you off. Im a firm believer in everyone being entitled to their own opinions, and I am willing to listen to you voice your opinion, but when it is based on ignorance and lack of knowledge about the subject, you are better off just keeping your mouth shut.

buildingup · 08-22-2005, 03:14 PM

Brandon · 08-22-2005, 04:15 PM

Why do I wanna do this? If that question was addressed to me, then I'll tell you.

Its very simple. I want to get stronger. I realize I can get stronger without steroids, but it's gonna take longer, and more work. It's not that i'm scared of work (i've been absolutly busting my balls in the gym for over 6 months now) but I want the gains quicker.

I've been doing a lot of research, talking to a lot of people (mostly people that I work with) and have so far come to the conclusion that if I keep learning everything I can for a while, get a good diet, work hard in the gym for a couple more years, then, with juice, I can get very good gains, with minimal side effects.

I am gonna take the advice of the people of this forum and wait a while. My diet definately needs work. First thing I'm gonna do is pick up a copy of the abs diet (a couple of other people recommended it to me in a different thread) and study that, and try to get my diet on track better. I'm also going to learn as much about roids as I can. I appreciate the advice from everyone.

A little story to the kid that's worried about it: the guy I've mainly talked to at work has been lifting since he was 20, he started juice at age 23. He's been on and off for almost 20 years now (prison got in the way a few times), and the dude is in awesome shape for being in his early 40s. I seriously thought the guy was about 25 when I met him.

Thanks to all for the advice.

taiyed7210 · 08-23-2005, 02:03 AM

gocock you are the one that sounds very uneducated....you sound like a few kids i know from high school that shoot heroin and meth in their veins. They say noone dies from it lol you have to be stupid to believe this shit. People shoot up heroin and live till they are 90 does that mean that it is not bad for you?

My freind told me speeding is cool....so does that mean the faster i drive the cooler i am!!!!

If i drive drunk everyday does that mean im going to get caught?

Its really to bad people are so egocentric like you ....basically you are a bodybuilding cheater

.

MuscleM4n · 08-23-2005, 09:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

Dude, bro, dog you listen up. I am not preparing for a fight. I just can't stand when people like Lexus who don't know shit about steroids say dumbass things like "Hopefully you won't die from steroid use by age 25" which is what he said in the open forum. That type of ignorance just proves my point that he knows nothing about steroid use. Can you tell me how many people have died directly from anabolic steroid use like Lexus is babbling about? None. Saying "Why do you want to do this to yourself" is not asking about someone's motivations. He makes it sound like every time someone uses steroids, it takes years of their life and degrades their health and slowly kills them. I am not trying to start a fight, im just saying whether it is you, Lexus or anyone who posts about steroids, if you are going to do that, know what your talking about because you sound like a fuckhead saying that steroids kill you when plenty of guys on here have used them for decades and are very healthy. It's not defensiveness among AS users, it's AS users sick and tired of people who know nothing about what we do telling us that we are going to die or roid rage will make us kill people or our dicks are going to fall off, or some other stupid shit that they read about in the paper. How about you educate yourself about steroids, then listen to the crap that a bunch of misinformed kids throw at you and tell me if it doesn't piss you off. Im a firm believer in everyone being entitled to their own opinions, and I am willing to listen to you voice your opinion, but when it is based on ignorance and lack of knowledge about the subject, you are better off just keeping your mouth shut.

gococks

i agree with you 100% mate.

08-20-2005, 11:04 PM	#1
Brandon Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 25	how old? I've been lifting for about 6 months now. I have lifted on and off for a few years though. I've got good gains naturally. I had never really considered juice until I talked to a guy at work who has been doing it for several years. I haven't really decided if/when I'll start this, but I've done a lot of reading online, and most places seem to agree that 21 is a decent age to start. In threads on here, it seems like most people on this board think it should be later than that? My question is why.
Brandon Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 25

08-20-2005, 11:07 PM	#2
MuscleM4n Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,280 Photos: 9	21 is fine BUT 6 months is NOT enough gym experience. train naturally for another 1/2 years...eat more, train harder - you will be surprised by the gains. You need PATIENCE Just remember "bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint"
	Age 19, Weight 132lbs , height 5'4", 8% bodyfat, 100% natural. Deadlift - 274lbs (NEW PB 9/8/2005) Squat - 274lbs (NEW PB 19/8/2005) Bench press - 154lbs Total - 702lbs @ 132lbs My Website Full Body Pictures 26/9/2005 My Journal! - Progress pictures 28/8/2005 Paint bodybuilder "Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint". Originally Posted by P-funk: "eat for size, train for strength".

08-20-2005, 11:09 PM	#4
MuscleM4n Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,280 Photos: 9	their is a difference between maturity and muscle maturity 21 age is OK for somebody who started training in their teens NOT ok if only training for 6 months, you wouldn't have enough experience. Just my opinion take it or leave it but that's the basic truth
	Age 19, Weight 132lbs , height 5'4", 8% bodyfat, 100% natural. Deadlift - 274lbs (NEW PB 9/8/2005) Squat - 274lbs (NEW PB 19/8/2005) Bench press - 154lbs Total - 702lbs @ 132lbs My Website Full Body Pictures 26/9/2005 My Journal! - Progress pictures 28/8/2005 Paint bodybuilder "Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint". Originally Posted by P-funk: "eat for size, train for strength".

08-20-2005, 11:20 PM	#6
MuscleM4n Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,280 Photos: 9	the reason most people consider at 21 is nothing to do with maturity at this age the plates in your spine have fused fully and you will most likely no longer grow in height, so steriods can no longer have an effect of closing your growth plates before they are fully developed. (Basically steriod use in teens will close the groth plates due to increase in Testosterone) Testosterone has a direct link with height: Did you know what the treatment for excessively tall height is in boys? They inject the sex hormone testosterone. This reduces final height. For girls, they use the sex hormone estrogen. The sex hormones cause rapid growth and then rapid cessation of growth of the bones. So being tall does not mean a person has low sex hormone levels. But continuing to grow well into the 20s is a good sign that sex hormone levels are low. So to sum it up if you take steriods in your teens the extra Test will stop you from gaining in natural height but once you reach 21 you have generally reached your natural height anyway
	Age 19, Weight 132lbs , height 5'4", 8% bodyfat, 100% natural. Deadlift - 274lbs (NEW PB 9/8/2005) Squat - 274lbs (NEW PB 19/8/2005) Bench press - 154lbs Total - 702lbs @ 132lbs My Website Full Body Pictures 26/9/2005 My Journal! - Progress pictures 28/8/2005 Paint bodybuilder "Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint". Originally Posted by P-funk: "eat for size, train for strength".

08-21-2005, 01:08 AM	#7
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,149 Photos: 1	Estrogen is what closes growth plates, aromitization takes care of that. People need to know what they are doing with both diet and training in order to not be wasting their time on juice, and using higher doses thinking that is a solution. What the user discovers, is frustration. I've come across more than one person who has done 1 and 2 gram a week cycles their first time, because they think that is the key. Some of those people do not cycle any longer because they discovered, they were wrong.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

08-20-2005, 11:07 PM	#3
moneymaker Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: Texas Posts: 40 Photos: 1	The only reason I can figure is that the average man reaches maturity in all aspects of his body by the age of 21. It is safe to have a little leway.

08-21-2005, 09:52 AM	#9
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,149 Photos: 1	Receptors actually upgrade, but that wasn't my point. My point is what you cover later, that diet is more important. Without the diet and training in place gear will be a waste of time for most people. They get the negative side effects without the positives and wonder why.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

08-21-2005, 11:23 PM	#12
Brandon Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 25	so, mudge (or anyone else...), it's basically to insure that everything else is in place? like, eating, diet, sleep?
Brandon Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 25

08-22-2005, 01:13 AM	#13
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,149 Photos: 1	IMO yes. It can take years for a person to get to know all that stuff. I lifted for quite a long time before I even discovered diet was really so important, in fact juice helped increase my awareness of this fact. Diet can be from simple to complex, depending how stubborn your body is. See-food bulkers are common with some people new to juice, then they gain fat and their blood pressure reaches very unhealthy levels, and they wonder what they did wrong. So plenty of research should be put into diet and training, if you expect to get the most results out of your goods. Some people end up trying to compensate with very high doses, at small bodyweights, which is also not healthy.
	Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

08-22-2005, 03:07 AM	#15
MuscleM4n Registered User Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: London Posts: 1,280 Photos: 9	their is conflicting information for everything in this world. Sleeping, eating and training - get these up to tee and you will have no more worries about putting on size. If their are brothers who are twins, one goes on juice but has shit training and diet( twin A) . The other twin trains naturally but has a good diet and training (twin B) Twin A will make less gains than twin B. Even is twin A ups the dose his gains will not last bwcuase as soon as he comes off juice he will not have learned the principles of keeping muscle so most pf his gains will be lost.
	Age 19, Weight 132lbs , height 5'4", 8% bodyfat, 100% natural. Deadlift - 274lbs (NEW PB 9/8/2005) Squat - 274lbs (NEW PB 19/8/2005) Bench press - 154lbs Total - 702lbs @ 132lbs My Website Full Body Pictures 26/9/2005 My Journal! - Progress pictures 28/8/2005 Paint bodybuilder "Bodybuilding is a marathon not a sprint". Originally Posted by P-funk: "eat for size, train for strength".

08-22-2005, 10:03 AM	#16
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544	21 or older, and 4+ years of solid and consistent training.
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,544

08-22-2005, 10:16 AM	#17
LexusGS 3UZFE Join Date: May 2005 Location: United States Posts: 2,636	y u wonna do this to yourself?

08-22-2005, 02:58 PM	#20
buildingup Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,101	its roid rage
buildingup Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,101

08-22-2005, 02:59 PM	#21
Tough Old Man Canine club CEO Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: baja calif, Mexico Posts: 6,933 Photos: 1	Ding, Ding, Ding round one has begun

08-22-2005, 03:14 PM	#23
buildingup Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,101
buildingup Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 1,101

08-22-2005, 04:15 PM	#24
Brandon Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 25	Why do I wanna do this? If that question was addressed to me, then I'll tell you. Its very simple. I want to get stronger. I realize I can get stronger without steroids, but it's gonna take longer, and more work. It's not that i'm scared of work (i've been absolutly busting my balls in the gym for over 6 months now) but I want the gains quicker. I've been doing a lot of research, talking to a lot of people (mostly people that I work with) and have so far come to the conclusion that if I keep learning everything I can for a while, get a good diet, work hard in the gym for a couple more years, then, with juice, I can get very good gains, with minimal side effects. I am gonna take the advice of the people of this forum and wait a while. My diet definately needs work. First thing I'm gonna do is pick up a copy of the abs diet (a couple of other people recommended it to me in a different thread) and study that, and try to get my diet on track better. I'm also going to learn as much about roids as I can. I appreciate the advice from everyone. A little story to the kid that's worried about it: the guy I've mainly talked to at work has been lifting since he was 20, he started juice at age 23. He's been on and off for almost 20 years now (prison got in the way a few times), and the dude is in awesome shape for being in his early 40s. I seriously thought the guy was about 25 when I met him. Thanks to all for the advice.
Brandon Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 25

08-23-2005, 02:03 AM	#25
taiyed7210 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 37	gocock you are the one that sounds very uneducated....you sound like a few kids i know from high school that shoot heroin and meth in their veins. They say noone dies from it lol you have to be stupid to believe this shit. People shoot up heroin and live till they are 90 does that mean that it is not bad for you? My freind told me speeding is cool....so does that mean the faster i drive the cooler i am!!!! If i drive drunk everyday does that mean im going to get caught? Its really to bad people are so egocentric like you ....basically you are a bodybuilding cheater .
taiyed7210 Registered User Join Date: Aug 2005 Posts: 37