Notice to anyone who would like to help.

FishOrCutBait · 08-24-2005, 05:58 PM

"Yes, I am underage, and therefore should NOT be posting in the Anabolics forum. However, I am posting to request the aide of any person who would like to help a student out. I am on the speech and debate team at my High School, and, with AAS's being brought to the forefront of current events, and being cast in an evil light, I would like the help of some steroid users so that I may uncover the truth. We are given certain opportunities to choose topics that we would like to speak about, and I would like to speak about anabolic steroids, at least once, as they are a large part of a sport that is very close to my heart, (That sport being bodybuilding) and, are very controversial, which usually makes people listen. Now, I know that I should not (and will not) use AAS's until I am 21+, so, do not fear, for that day is many years of lifting, and hours of research away. That being said, I only have a rough idea of exactly what issues pertaining to steroids I would like to speak about. I feel the most entertaining, or at least most compelling, would be the safety of AAS. As there are many people on this forum who have used them without ill effect, I figured that your personal experience would be very beneficial to my arguments/speeches.

-Fishorcutbait,
aka
Eric Jaurena.

ihateschoolmt · 08-24-2005, 06:03 PM

Oddly enough I am in the same club, and this always comes up. I just have one question though, Isn't superdrol considered AAS? I mean that's legal so what's wrong with the other AAS.

The Monkey Man · 08-24-2005, 06:07 PM

Do the roids now you sissy!!

How are you going to catch up to the real Richard Sandrak???

FishOrCutBait · 08-24-2005, 06:07 PM

Superdrol is an AAS, I couldnt tell ya exactly what type... I do know it has something to do with Masteron... Its a loophole, I suppose...

In any case, maybe Ill see you at Nat Quals?

Monkey,

antelope07 · 08-24-2005, 06:45 PM

Dude,
If you are staying away from the true anabolics, go for stuff that raises your natural test, when i was younger, in my teens, I got an awesome kick from something called smilax officianals, if you can find it try it out, it boosts natural test.
As far as your debate team, check out that HBO Real sports episode where they had a section about gear. The overwhelming argument is, if gear is so damaging like crack or something, and killing all these people, where are the bodies. I think statistically there have been less than 10 deaths attributed to gear...EVER. I could be off a little, but really not by much.
The counter point to the argument form the weight lifting community is that sane doses, not 1000 mg of test a week, but maybe like 200-300 mg week is beneficial, not harmful.
Im pretty into this debate but I graduated high school a while ago. I am astonished on how this issue has exploded, I think its just the media needing something to report. Only when baseball came into the picture did this get huge, no pun intended. What about football? ther are plenty of events where steroids have been detected in athletes. For an argument or a presentation i would question why it took until now for this issue to get so "hot".
Ant

FishOrCutBait · 08-24-2005, 06:50 PM

We were just talking about it, as far as what I know of Mike, he isnt gonna do any sort of gear either. That and I dont believe natural test boosters work, at least for healthy, normal, teenagers. Im just lookin for people like:

dg08, LAM, foremanrules, etc., who actually have experience with the stuff.

Or... Have you used gear before? Its okay to tell me, Im on the "steroids am OK" side.

antelope07 · 08-24-2005, 06:58 PM

um, yeah, i feel like a jerk for trying to share my experience. i am currently taking tren and winny...FYI. Good luck with your homework. And if you don't think trib. works, you should make a post about it and see your response, or even try it.
I think the title of your post is to ANYONE who would like to try to help.

FishOrCutBait · 08-24-2005, 07:24 PM

I dont necessarily have any specific questions right now. And dont feel like a jerk tellin me your experience, lol... Did you have bloodwork done pre-cycle and are you going to have it done post cycle, and maybe after your PCT is finished?

gococksDJS · 08-24-2005, 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishOrCutBait

We were just talking about it, as far as what I know of Mike, he isnt gonna do any sort of gear either. That and I dont believe natural test boosters work, at least for healthy, normal, teenagers. Im just lookin for people like:

dg08, LAM, foremanrules, etc., who actually have experience with the stuff.

Or... Have you used gear before? Its okay to tell me, Im on the "steroids am OK" side.

Im not really sure what all you want to know but my last cycle was 12 weeks long and consisted Testosterone Enanthate 500mg a week in 2 injections of 250mg each, EQ at 600mg a week in 2 injections of 300mg each and 25mg of Dbol every day for the first 4 weeks, from week 3 through 12 I did 500iu of HCG every 3 days or so. Not really sure if this is what your looking for, but if you have any other questions ill help out as much as I can.

antelope07 · 08-24-2005, 07:47 PM

Well, sorry younger bro, I got a little upset when you said natural test boosters dont work.
The last time I had blood work before this cycle was about a month before, and all was well. I only intend to have blood work again after this cycle, no intention of blood work during as the natural test levels are so suppressed and I end up pretty junked up with T-3, clen, gear, triglycerides (MCT fuel) and fucked up liver activity it only makes sense for after the fact to ensure things come back online as expected, and PCT can be managed in a sane manner.

FishOrCutBait · 08-24-2005, 07:55 PM

Is no problem, I suppose the natty test boosters issue is for another day, send me a PM or somethin, I think Id like to look into them.

As one could imagine, I am very inexperienced as far as the realm of steroids go, this will DEFINITELY be a work in progress, as I first need to find out WHAT the things I need to know are. Lol...

Did that make sense at all? First, Id need to know what values of certain markers are considered "healthy", etc. AGAIN, this isnt something that is like, DUE TOMORROW, lol, its going to be something I intend to work on, with the help of the willing, over a period of several weeks.

Du · 08-24-2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FishOrCutBait

"Yes, I am underage, and therefore should NOT be posting in the Anabolics forum. However, I am posting to request the aide of any person who would like to help a student out. I am on the speech and debate team at my High School, and, with AAS's being brought to the forefront of current events, and being cast in an evil light, I would like the help of some steroid users so that I may uncover the truth. We are given certain opportunities to choose topics that we would like to speak about, and I would like to speak about anabolic steroids, at least once, as they are a large part of a sport that is very close to my heart, (That sport being bodybuilding) and, are very controversial, which usually makes people listen. Now, I know that I should not (and will not) use AAS's until I am 21+, so, do not fear, for that day is many years of lifting, and hours of research away. That being said, I only have a rough idea of exactly what issues pertaining to steroids I would like to speak about. I feel the most entertaining, or at least most compelling, would be the safety of AAS. As there are many people on this forum who have used them without ill effect, I figured that your personal experience would be very beneficial to my arguments/speeches.

-Fishorcutbait,
aka
Eric Jaurena.

Read this, courtesy of Clayton South:

Quote:

Imagine, for a moment, that you were approached by a friend, colleague or co-worker, and asked for your position stand on the current legal status of anabolic steroids. How would you reply? Would you say that the possession, use or distribution of anabolic steroids should be illegal without a doctors prescription? Would you say that they should be de-criminalized, and that current laws are in need of reform? Or, would you even have a position stand?

It is important to not mistake a position stand for an opinion, as there is a great difference between the two. A position stand is a stance based on evidence derived from both common sense observations and research. An opinion, on the other hand, is a belief based often on simple desire. Many people who hold opinions do so even when conclusive and convincing evidence is presented to refute their belief. This should not be surprising, as psychology knows this phenomenon well. It is called belief perseverance.

Imagine also that as a bodybuilder who lives and promotes the lifestyle, you have been given the opportunity to not only inform an audience about anabolic steroids, but to also refute common beliefs, and then persuade them that de-criminalization of anabolic steroids is a necessity. To add to this difficulty, the setting you would be speaking in would be one of the top Universities in the country, and the time to speak would be limited to 6 minutes. What would you say?

Regardless of the situation in which you find yourself [the first, the second, or any other], the important facts on the issue remain the same and, if you are a bodybuilder, it is inevitable that at some time during your career the issue of anabolic steroids will arise. When the discussion of steroids arises and you are talking with other less knowledgeable bodybuilders or members of the public, you need to be informed.

If you lack the knowledge to support your views, or worse, lack the ability to organize and communicate that knowledge in a way that is understandable to your audience, you will have lost an opportunity to promote the lifestyle to members of the public. Even worse, you will have missed an opportunity to challenge the pre-conceptions and misknowledge many have about anabolic steroids.

On March 13, 2003 I had the opportunity to speak to my fellow colleagues at one of the top Universities in the country. I seized the opportunity to challenge their beliefs about anabolic steroids, and to refute many of the myths surrounding these drugs. I present for your consideration the full text of my speech. Consider how you may use these ideas when speaking to someone about steroids.

The Speech

[ " Pill poppers. Needle users. Drug abusers. Addicts. What image comes to your mind when you hear these phrases? If you are like many people, you probably think of someone who struggles with addiction, a law-breaker, someone who lives on the edges of society, conducting their deeds in secret back-alley deals, wanting to escape the public eye.

Steroid user. What image are you seeing now? If it is an image of a pill-popper, a needle user, a drug abuser or an addict, you are not alone in thinking this.

Many believe steroids are "street drugs" comparable to the likes of cocaine, heroine, or crack, and many people think they are just as addictive and deadly. Has it ever occurred to you that if this is your idea of a steroid user, you may be mistaken?

From my 5 years of bodybuilding, my 5 years of studying the human body, my 2 years of personal training, and my time writing for Bodybuilding.com, the world's #1 bodybuilding website, I have come to understand a lot about muscle building steroids, and also to realize that current laws are in need of change.

I will be talking about why anabolic steroids should de-criminalized and three issues that should bear foremost on your mind when you consider this subject. These issues are:

1. Steroid facts, what anabolic steroids are and the benefits and drawbacks of use.

2. The difference between street drugs and muscle building steroids.

3. Why you should care whether or not they are available to you without penalty under the law and what you can do to help the de-criminalization effort.

Despite the fact that many people use the phrase "anabolic steroids" many, in actuality, have no idea what anabolic steroids are. Simply, steroids are natural substances made and used by the body's hormone system. Some precursors of steroids are found in the needles of pine trees; so if any of you come in smelling like pine trees after this, the secret will be out!

Currently under Canadian and American law, the possession, use and distribution of anabolic steroids without a doctors prescription. In Canada anabolic steroids are illegal under the Controlled Foods and Substances Act, Schedule VI.

The drawbacks of excessive steroid abuse include but are not limited to:

Baldness in males
Facial hair growth in women
Shrinking of the gonads in males, enlargement of, and increased sensitivity of the clitoris of females
Buildup of fatty deposits behind the nipples in males
Toxicity to the liver
Psychological addiction possible

Contrasting these side effects of abuse are the effects noticed with moderate steroid usage. These include:

Positive affects on mood patterns
Positive affects on sleep patterns
Positive affects on muscular development
Prevention of symptoms of arthritis and depression
Strengthening of bones and prevention of thinning of bones, aka osteoporosis

Here I present to you 2 facts about steroids that may alter your definition of a "steroid user".

FACT: Steroids are hormones made by the body naturally.
IMPLICATION: Our bodies already use and make "steroids" We are steroid users.

FACT: If we eat fat we are eating the products needed to make steroids.
IMPLICATION: Our bodies already use and make "steroids" We are steroid users.

So when you look in the mirror, understand that the image staring back at you is of a person who makes, possesses and uses, anabolic steroids on a daily basis! If you have muscles your body has used muscle-building steroids to get them.

At this point you are probably surprised, and I was also when I first began to study this subject. You may be asking yourself "well what is the difference between street drugs and anabolic steroids?" There are many differences, and it is important that you do not mistake one drug for the other. Do not mistake anabolic steroids for street drugs!

It has been suggested that that steroids are as harmful and addictive as street drugs but no evidence exists that indicates that steroids stimulate the pleasure centers in brain as do alcohol, nicotine and cocaine or heroine. In fact, biological addiction to steroids is unlikely when they are used correctly, although it may be argued that psychological addictions are possible.

For your consideration here are some facts that you need to consider when trying to understand the difference between street drugs and anabolic steroids:

Small amounts of steroids do not cause addiction, small amounts of street drugs do
Small amounts of steroids cause no damage or permanent injury, small amounts of street drugs do
Large amounts of steroids cause damage, most of which is reversible; street drugs cause damage, all of which is not reversible
Anabolic steroids were given to concentration camp survivors after world war two as live saving medicine to help them use protein more efficiently because they were so starved; street drugs were never given to concentration camp survivors
Steroids are given to burn victims and victims of near-fatal accidents; street drugs are never given to burn victims or victims of near fatal accidents
Steroids are given to AIDS patients by doctors; street drugs are never given to aids patients by doctors
Street Drugs Devices of death that cause destruction
Steroids are given by doctors to near-death smokers to extend life; street drugs are not given to near-death smokers by doctors

Despite these points, I am aware that many would still contend that steroids are destructive. However according the Centers for Disease Control, between the years 1990-1994 an average of 430,700 people died annually from smoking. The same report, when speaking of anabolic steroids states, "There is little evidence to show that their use will cause long term detriment…"

On a personal note, my uncle began smoking at the age of 10. Before his death at age 69 several years ago resulting from the collapse and failure of his liver, kidneys and heart, brought about by his years of excessive smoking, he was given anabolic steroids to extend, save, and contribute to the quality his life. The very drugs that are ridiculed, vilified and misrepresented in the media allowed me to have those final times with my uncle. Steroids kept him alive so we could go on fishing trips, and they gave us time to tell each other that we loved one another, before he died. In fact, the use of anabolic steroids added a full two years onto his life. That time may not seem like a lot of time to many of you, but to the people who loved and continue to love him, that was a gift and blessing that money cannot buy. That time was everything.

So why should you care? What does it matter to you if anabolic steroids are decriminalized? After all, you are not elderly and are not, presumably, suffering from a terminal or chronic illness. Why should you act to help the de-criminalization process?

"Steroids are not street drugs, because when used in moderate dosages they heal, and do not destroy lives."

The first reason that you should care is because this is an issue that is fundamentally about freedom. It is about the freedom to choose to use substances that will improve the length and quality of your life. Should you be denied substances that, when used correctly, are life improving substances, while others can have free access to products like cigarettes that that when used as intended, kill? Should you have to be on separate drugs to treat arthritis, depression and impotence? Why should you have to take Viagra or an arthritis medication that will eat away at your stomach lining, while moderate doses of testosterone would fix all three problems previously mentioned, with no side effects?

The de-criminalization of anabolic steroids should happen! They improve quality of life. Steroids are not street drugs, because when used in moderate dosages they heal, and do not destroy lives. We should all care about and support the de-criminalization of anabolic steroids and stand up for the right to choose the best of what medicine has to offer, because one day we may find ourselves needing these drugs for legitimate purposes.

Lobby your political representatives to move toward de-criminalization. The quality and length of your life may one day depend on it! " ]

Afterword

My speech was very well received by the audience and many were persuaded to at least soften their opposition to free access to these drugs. At the beginning of the speech many people, when asked, voiced stiff opposition to the de-criminalization of these drugs. After the speech, no one did, and many moderately agreed or had moved from strong opposition to a position of not being sure how they felt. That is, at least, a start, and is progress for our lifestyle.

It is important to realize that the de-criminalization effort will not be won in miles, but in inches. Victory will not occur by trying to "prove" how great steroids are, but in refutation of misknowledge, and by replacing that misknowledge in a non-threatening way with genuine fact that speaks to the intellect of all who listen.

Next time that someone asks you about anabolic steroids, be a strong representative for our sport by preaching moderation; not abuse, tolerance to opposing viewpoints; not close-mindedness, and most importantly stick to your guns and base your position stand on fact, and do so in a passive but assertive and determined way. In doing THIS you will be doing yourself and all bodybuilders with whom you share a common humanity, a service. Happy lifting!

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/south23.htm

Tha Don · 08-24-2005, 08:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

Im not really sure what all you want to know

neither am i

FishOrCutBait · 08-24-2005, 08:08 PM

Neither am I, lol... As I said, over the next couple weeks Im going to be figuring out what I need to know, and I just want to see who is willing to help.

FishOrCutBait · 08-24-2005, 08:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by du510

Read this, courtesy of Clayton South:

http://www.bodybuilding.com/fun/south23.htm

You want me to be honest? I just crapped my pants. I can read exactly that for one of the speech types... I love yooooou

musclepump · 08-24-2005, 08:12 PM

You have better odds of being struck by a falling honeybucket than you do of dying from anabolic steroids when used in reasonable amounts.

FishOrCutBait · 08-24-2005, 08:53 PM

Yeah... Ill try and learn some more, then ask you guys some stuff...

BiggerNstronger · 08-24-2005, 09:20 PM

What about how AAS COULD lead to use of other illegal (YES, AAS are illegal...some guys forget that). What about the idea that AAS could lead to health problems that could lead to worse health problems? What about the whole "secret thing"...not being able to talk openly about what your taking or where you got it? What about the after affects of AAS.....PCT and the fact that most of the best PCT chemicals available or also illegal to posess. Flex magazine had a nice article after all the health probs of Mike Mattarazzo. Things werent blamed on 'roids per say but he did allude to the fact that they just eventually lead to bigger and stronger drugs to keep attaining bigger gains as well as the unhealthy practice of low single digit competition bodyfat along with near dehydration which are bad on the heart. These are just ideas....not even my personal beliefs necessarily, just different ways to pursue your speech.

Du · 08-24-2005, 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BiggerNstronger

What about how AAS COULD lead to use of other illegal (YES, AAS are illegal...some guys forget that). What about the idea that AAS could lead to health problems that could lead to worse health problems? What about the whole "secret thing"...not being able to talk openly about what your taking or where you got it? What about the after affects of AAS.....PCT and the fact that most of the best PCT chemicals available or also illegal to posess. Flex magazine had a nice article after all the health probs of Mike Mattarazzo. Things werent blamed on 'roids per say but he did allude to the fact that they just eventually lead to bigger and stronger drugs to keep attaining bigger gains as well as the unhealthy practice of low single digit competition bodyfat along with near dehydration which are bad on the heart. These are just ideas....not even my personal beliefs necessarily, just different ways to pursue your speech.

Thats a step backwards, my friend

FishOrCutBait · 08-24-2005, 10:54 PM

... Thats not what I want to talk about, lol. I want to tell people how they ARENT so bad.

Tough Old Man · 08-25-2005, 03:07 AM

Bullshit your hoping that you run into some dumb mother fucker that will tell you what gear and dosage to use. there's no high school in this country that wants a student to elaborate on the use of steroids.

Tha Don · 08-25-2005, 06:21 AM

look at that HBO report on steroids which i posted in this forum a little while back, that is a really good unbiased report on steroids and should help you with your speech, a bit of personal info for you... my experience with steroids so far has not been all that good, and i'll explain to you why

firstly on cycle, you explode okay, after a few weeks on dbol/test my strength went through the roof (bench went from 105kg to 135kg, 30kg around 55-60lbs gain!), my muscles also blew up totally! really full, added 23lbs (nearly 2stone) in 2 weeks, i was on top of the world and felt invincible in the gym and somewhat in life too, also my confidence was a bit knocked due to all the water retention on my face, my face really did look like a balloon, this change in mood bought its problems, reckless behaviour, behaving in ways i never really do, like i was the opposite from my usual laid back chilled out self, which i really didn't like, the worst of it came pct though, that is when i hit a depression and i still don't think i've recovered yet, i am also nearly back down to the weight i was before i started the cycle (was 207 at end of cycle, started at 184, currently 185), i was 200lbs end of pct, then i started cutting and have lost 15lbs over the last 5 weeks, but i've just basically reversed the gains i made and am losing fat and muscle (at about the same rate i added it), so if you look at the long term benefits, for me, there have been none at all, if you look at the costs, they are vast.. depression, slight gyno still in my nips, still slight acne over my back, no motivation to train anymore (as every week i'm getting weaker), lost the girl i loved (got in a fight with her when i was 'on', very bad idea

she'll never take me back now), and obviously the cost in terms of money, and all the time i spent researching, as you can see the biggest costs for me were psycological ones, and i will not be going back on until these are resolved and i'm in a much sounder more secure position

i can totally see how people get addicted to juice, i too didn't want to come off (ask guys like krazi, pirate, musclepump etc about some of my posts in here when 'on'), the urge to go back on is strong, but i know unless i am prepared to go on, stay on for a few months, eat huge while off to keep my size (but also add fat) then go back on again and continue this cycle over the next fews years i really do not think it is worth it, its very addictive, and i must say eventually i will give it another go, i just want to get my BF% as low as possible first, then make slow steady progress on lean bulking cycles (so i won't have to cut when i come off), i think i might have better success with it that way

hope that helps you out, that is just my honest opinion on them right now

08-24-2005, 05:58 PM	#1
FishOrCutBait lifts weights Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minneapple Posts: 4,447 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 2	Notice to ANYONE who would like to help. (AAS users.) "Yes, I am underage, and therefore should NOT be posting in the Anabolics forum. However, I am posting to request the aide of any person who would like to help a student out. I am on the speech and debate team at my High School, and, with AAS's being brought to the forefront of current events, and being cast in an evil light, I would like the help of some steroid users so that I may uncover the truth. We are given certain opportunities to choose topics that we would like to speak about, and I would like to speak about anabolic steroids, at least once, as they are a large part of a sport that is very close to my heart, (That sport being bodybuilding) and, are very controversial, which usually makes people listen. Now, I know that I should not (and will not) use AAS's until I am 21+, so, do not fear, for that day is many years of lifting, and hours of research away. That being said, I only have a rough idea of exactly what issues pertaining to steroids I would like to speak about. I feel the most entertaining, or at least most compelling, would be the safety of AAS. As there are many people on this forum who have used them without ill effect, I figured that your personal experience would be very beneficial to my arguments/speeches. -Fishorcutbait, aka Eric Jaurena. Last edited by FishOrCutBait : 08-24-2005 at 07:21 PM.
	"tried and true theory on one's self is probably the only non-biased proof that something works for someone." - juggernaut http://www.ronpaul.com/

08-24-2005, 06:07 PM	#3
The Monkey Man Magical Apelikemenace Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: New Delhi, India Posts: 13,909 Photos: 38	Do the roids now you sissy!! How are you going to catch up to the real Richard Sandrak???
	Have Problems?... Chances are its due to overpopulation Save The Oceans, Save the Planet, Save Your Family, Save Yourself!

08-24-2005, 06:07 PM	#4
FishOrCutBait lifts weights Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minneapple Posts: 4,447 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 2	Superdrol is an AAS, I couldnt tell ya exactly what type... I do know it has something to do with Masteron... Its a loophole, I suppose... In any case, maybe Ill see you at Nat Quals? Monkey,
	"tried and true theory on one's self is probably the only non-biased proof that something works for someone." - juggernaut http://www.ronpaul.com/

08-24-2005, 06:50 PM	#6
FishOrCutBait lifts weights Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minneapple Posts: 4,447 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 2	We were just talking about it, as far as what I know of Mike, he isnt gonna do any sort of gear either. That and I dont believe natural test boosters work, at least for healthy, normal, teenagers. Im just lookin for people like: dg08, LAM, foremanrules, etc., who actually have experience with the stuff. Or... Have you used gear before? Its okay to tell me, Im on the "steroids am OK" side.
	"tried and true theory on one's self is probably the only non-biased proof that something works for someone." - juggernaut http://www.ronpaul.com/

08-24-2005, 07:24 PM	#8
FishOrCutBait lifts weights Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minneapple Posts: 4,447 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 2	I dont necessarily have any specific questions right now. And dont feel like a jerk tellin me your experience, lol... Did you have bloodwork done pre-cycle and are you going to have it done post cycle, and maybe after your PCT is finished?
	"tried and true theory on one's self is probably the only non-biased proof that something works for someone." - juggernaut http://www.ronpaul.com/

08-24-2005, 06:03 PM	#2
ihateschoolmt Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: North Carolina Posts: 3,796 Photos: 10	Oddly enough I am in the same club, and this always comes up. I just have one question though, Isn't superdrol considered AAS? I mean that's legal so what's wrong with the other AAS.

08-24-2005, 06:45 PM	#5
antelope07 antelope07 Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: USA Posts: 186 Photos: 3	Dude, If you are staying away from the true anabolics, go for stuff that raises your natural test, when i was younger, in my teens, I got an awesome kick from something called smilax officianals, if you can find it try it out, it boosts natural test. As far as your debate team, check out that HBO Real sports episode where they had a section about gear. The overwhelming argument is, if gear is so damaging like crack or something, and killing all these people, where are the bodies. I think statistically there have been less than 10 deaths attributed to gear...EVER. I could be off a little, but really not by much. The counter point to the argument form the weight lifting community is that sane doses, not 1000 mg of test a week, but maybe like 200-300 mg week is beneficial, not harmful. Im pretty into this debate but I graduated high school a while ago. I am astonished on how this issue has exploded, I think its just the media needing something to report. Only when baseball came into the picture did this get huge, no pun intended. What about football? ther are plenty of events where steroids have been detected in athletes. For an argument or a presentation i would question why it took until now for this issue to get so "hot". Ant

08-24-2005, 06:58 PM	#7
antelope07 antelope07 Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: USA Posts: 186 Photos: 3	um, yeah, i feel like a jerk for trying to share my experience. i am currently taking tren and winny...FYI. Good luck with your homework. And if you don't think trib. works, you should make a post about it and see your response, or even try it. I think the title of your post is to ANYONE who would like to try to help.

08-24-2005, 07:47 PM	#10
antelope07 antelope07 Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2005 Location: USA Posts: 186 Photos: 3	Well, sorry younger bro, I got a little upset when you said natural test boosters dont work. The last time I had blood work before this cycle was about a month before, and all was well. I only intend to have blood work again after this cycle, no intention of blood work during as the natural test levels are so suppressed and I end up pretty junked up with T-3, clen, gear, triglycerides (MCT fuel) and fucked up liver activity it only makes sense for after the fact to ensure things come back online as expected, and PCT can be managed in a sane manner.

08-24-2005, 07:55 PM	#11
FishOrCutBait lifts weights Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minneapple Posts: 4,447 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 2	Is no problem, I suppose the natty test boosters issue is for another day, send me a PM or somethin, I think Id like to look into them. As one could imagine, I am very inexperienced as far as the realm of steroids go, this will DEFINITELY be a work in progress, as I first need to find out WHAT the things I need to know are. Lol... Did that make sense at all? First, Id need to know what values of certain markers are considered "healthy", etc. AGAIN, this isnt something that is like, DUE TOMORROW, lol, its going to be something I intend to work on, with the help of the willing, over a period of several weeks.
	"tried and true theory on one's self is probably the only non-biased proof that something works for someone." - juggernaut http://www.ronpaul.com/

08-24-2005, 08:08 PM	#14
FishOrCutBait lifts weights Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minneapple Posts: 4,447 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 2	Neither am I, lol... As I said, over the next couple weeks Im going to be figuring out what I need to know, and I just want to see who is willing to help.
	"tried and true theory on one's self is probably the only non-biased proof that something works for someone." - juggernaut http://www.ronpaul.com/

08-24-2005, 08:12 PM	#16
musclepump Celebrity PersonalTrainer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,666 Photos: 128	You have better odds of being struck by a falling honeybucket than you do of dying from anabolic steroids when used in reasonable amounts.
	Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

08-24-2005, 08:53 PM	#17
FishOrCutBait lifts weights Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minneapple Posts: 4,447 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 2	Yeah... Ill try and learn some more, then ask you guys some stuff...
	"tried and true theory on one's self is probably the only non-biased proof that something works for someone." - juggernaut http://www.ronpaul.com/

08-24-2005, 09:20 PM	#18
BiggerNstronger this pic is not real Join Date: Mar 2005 Location: Ks Posts: 482	What about how AAS COULD lead to use of other illegal (YES, AAS are illegal...some guys forget that). What about the idea that AAS could lead to health problems that could lead to worse health problems? What about the whole "secret thing"...not being able to talk openly about what your taking or where you got it? What about the after affects of AAS.....PCT and the fact that most of the best PCT chemicals available or also illegal to posess. Flex magazine had a nice article after all the health probs of Mike Mattarazzo. Things werent blamed on 'roids per say but he did allude to the fact that they just eventually lead to bigger and stronger drugs to keep attaining bigger gains as well as the unhealthy practice of low single digit competition bodyfat along with near dehydration which are bad on the heart. These are just ideas....not even my personal beliefs necessarily, just different ways to pursue your speech.
	Bigger and Stronger and Leaner and Meaner!

08-24-2005, 10:54 PM	#20
FishOrCutBait lifts weights Elite Member Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Minneapple Posts: 4,447 Blog Entries: 1 Photos: 2	... Thats not what I want to talk about, lol. I want to tell people how they ARENT so bad.
	"tried and true theory on one's self is probably the only non-biased proof that something works for someone." - juggernaut http://www.ronpaul.com/

08-25-2005, 08:35 AM	#23
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,149 Photos:

08-25-2005, 03:07 AM	#21
Tough Old Man Canine club CEO Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: baja calif, Mexico Posts: 6,933 Photos: 1	Bullshit your hoping that you run into some dumb mother fucker that will tell you what gear and dosage to use. there's no high school in this country that wants a student to elaborate on the use of steroids.

08-25-2005, 06:21 AM	#22
Tha Don Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nottingham, England Posts: 3,826 Photos: 33	look at that HBO report on steroids which i posted in this forum a little while back, that is a really good unbiased report on steroids and should help you with your speech, a bit of personal info for you... my experience with steroids so far has not been all that good, and i'll explain to you why firstly on cycle, you explode okay, after a few weeks on dbol/test my strength went through the roof (bench went from 105kg to 135kg, 30kg around 55-60lbs gain!), my muscles also blew up totally! really full, added 23lbs (nearly 2stone) in 2 weeks, i was on top of the world and felt invincible in the gym and somewhat in life too, also my confidence was a bit knocked due to all the water retention on my face, my face really did look like a balloon, this change in mood bought its problems, reckless behaviour, behaving in ways i never really do, like i was the opposite from my usual laid back chilled out self, which i really didn't like, the worst of it came pct though, that is when i hit a depression and i still don't think i've recovered yet, i am also nearly back down to the weight i was before i started the cycle (was 207 at end of cycle, started at 184, currently 185), i was 200lbs end of pct, then i started cutting and have lost 15lbs over the last 5 weeks, but i've just basically reversed the gains i made and am losing fat and muscle (at about the same rate i added it), so if you look at the long term benefits, for me, there have been none at all, if you look at the costs, they are vast.. depression, slight gyno still in my nips, still slight acne over my back, no motivation to train anymore (as every week i'm getting weaker), lost the girl i loved (got in a fight with her when i was 'on', very bad idea she'll never take me back now), and obviously the cost in terms of money, and all the time i spent researching, as you can see the biggest costs for me were psycological ones, and i will not be going back on until these are resolved and i'm in a much sounder more secure position i can totally see how people get addicted to juice, i too didn't want to come off (ask guys like krazi, pirate, musclepump etc about some of my posts in here when 'on'), the urge to go back on is strong, but i know unless i am prepared to go on, stay on for a few months, eat huge while off to keep my size (but also add fat) then go back on again and continue this cycle over the next fews years i really do not think it is worth it, its very addictive, and i must say eventually i will give it another go, i just want to get my BF% as low as possible first, then make slow steady progress on lean bulking cycles (so i won't have to cut when i come off), i think i might have better success with it that way hope that helps you out, that is just my honest opinion on them right now