Thread: Steroid use: Why? Expectations? Results?

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Love to hear your experiances with steroids also....

I wonder how many AAS users concede that they have low self-esteem? That would be an interesting question. If it's not for hypogonadism, and not for competitive sport, then it must be for cosmetic reasons.

Originally Posted by SubliminalX

I wonder how many AAS users concede that they have low self-esteem? That would be an interesting question. If it's not for hypogonadism, and not for competitive sport, then it must be for cosmetic reasons.

Bodybuilding in general is typically for cosmetic reasons in the first place.

what gets me is, everyone say you should wait till you have several year training, and have reached a platuea naturally.

But what if your goal isn't to be 200lbs +, just to add 10-15lbs, and don't want to wait the course of a year to add that naturally??? It seems like most ppl think or give me the impression that it should beadded to achieve that incredible size.

What if your just looking to lean out, or add some mass in a shorter amount of time, just to achieve your desired size which might not be 220lbs, or for model or actor for a upcoming movie or photo shoot.

As long as there are used responsible and not abused does it really matter how far along in their training they are?????

By no means do i suggest someone to start jucing after training for only 6 months.

opinions anyone???

Originally Posted by Flex

Bodybuilding in general is typically for cosmetic reasons in the first place.

Bodybuilding is competition (pro ar amateur), it's a career, it's a way to make a living. What about those who do not compete in anything, either athletics or bodybuilding (no, bodybuilding is not considered athletics)? Athletes do it for performance, whether it's pro or not. Your regular Joe Schmoe who simply lifts for a hobby and juices probably has low self esteem.

I have never done a competition, yet. I have some moderae experience w/ AS. My self asteem is great....I never crash at the end of my cycles either...Good PCT reduces crash anyway. If your emotional before AS then you are going to be really emotional w/ AS.

Originally Posted by SubliminalX

I wonder how many AAS users concede that they have low self-esteem? That would be an interesting question. If it's not for hypogonadism, and not for competitive sport, then it must be for cosmetic reasons.

Do you consider body dismorphia low self esteem? Yes, thats an honest question. I think it can go either way.

Originally Posted by SubliminalX

Your regular Joe Schmoe who simply lifts for a hobby and juices probably has low self esteem.

How did you arrive at this assumption? Im curious, have you talked to experienced steroid users or is this based solely on ignorance?

Originally Posted by SubliminalX

If it's not for hypogonadism, and not for competitive sport, then it must be for cosmetic reasons.

You're forgetting strength, one of the best bits IMO

Please tell us about the high school senior who used a gram of test, I'd love to hear how that went haha

Originally Posted by Mudge

Do you consider body dismorphia low self esteem? Yes, thats an honest question. I think it can go either way.

I would say low self esteem can lead to body dismorphia.

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

How did you arrive at this assumption? Im curious, have you talked to experienced steroid users or is this based solely on ignorance?

Myself, and those who I've known to use, did it for athletic competition. So it was for performance, not cosmetics. If I wasn't competing in anything I wouldn't have used. Maybe in my mid 30s I'll go on HRT, but then it's only to bring me back to normal ranges if needed.

There are a number of balanced editorials about AAS use. Heck, I think Bill Lewellyn was the author of one of the articles who said that those who do it purely for cosmetics (and do not compete in anything) have low self esteem. Many others would agree. Lewellyn himself used AAS for 10 years purely for cosmetics, and I think deep down he admits he had low self esteem before. It's an interesting issue that requires self-reflection, which is good every now and them IMO.

Originally Posted by SubliminalX

Myself, and those who I've known to use, did it for athletic competition. So it was for performance, not cosmetics. If I wasn't competing in anything I wouldn't have used. Maybe in my mid 30s I'll go on HRT, but then it's only to bring me back to normal ranges if needed.

There are a number of balanced editorials about AAS use. Heck, I think Bill Lewellyn was the author of one of the articles who said that those who do it purely for cosmetics (and do not compete in anything) have low self esteem. Many others would agree. Lewellyn himself used AAS for 10 years purely for cosmetics, and I think deep down he admits he had low self esteem before. It's an interesting issue that requires self-reflection, which is good every now and them IMO.

You could just as easily say that you and your buddies used and steroids because of low self esteem as well......I never used steroids for sports and none of my friends did either, we just worked hard, played smart and loved the game.

Originally Posted by SubliminalX

Myself, and those who I've known to use, did it for athletic competition. So it was for performance, not cosmetics. If I wasn't competing in anything I wouldn't have used. Maybe in my mid 30s I'll go on HRT, but then it's only to bring me back to normal ranges if needed.

There are a number of balanced editorials about AAS use. Heck, I think Bill Lewellyn was the author of one of the articles who said that those who do it purely for cosmetics (and do not compete in anything) have low self esteem. Many others would agree. Lewellyn himself used AAS for 10 years purely for cosmetics, and I think deep down he admits he had low self esteem before. It's an interesting issue that requires self-reflection, which is good every now and them IMO.

You still didn't answer my question. How did you arrive at the assumption that all of those who use steroids for reasons other than competitive have a low self esteem? You say that Bill Lewellyn admits to using purely for cosmetic reasons but then go on to say you think that deep down he admits to a low self esteem, meaning you just assume this? To me it sounds like although you claim you were using for competitive reasons, they did in fact boost your possibly low self-esteem yet you still have the "competitive" excuse to fall back on.

Originally Posted by gococksDJS

You still didn't answer my question. How did you arrive at the assumption that all of those who use steroids for reasons other than competitive have a low self esteem? You say that Bill Lewellyn admits to using purely for cosmetic reasons but then go on to say you think that deep down he admits to a low self esteem, meaning you just assume this? To me it sounds like although you claim you were using for competitive reasons, they did in fact boost your possibly low self-esteem yet you still have the "competitive" excuse to fall back on.

It's not "all," but there are some and I was wondering how many realize it or have the humility to admit it. It's an honest inquiry, not one that is intended to insult anyone. When Bill was talking about people having low self esteem, I think it was apparent he was also talking about himself. Nothing wrong with admitting it. When I had my first beer at a party at age 18, I had low self esteem and simply wanted to be cool. I can admit that. I've thought about my past PH/AAS usage when I was involved in competitive sport with monetary implications, and honestly I don't believe it was motivated in any way by cosmetics. I do not compete anymore, so I find no reason to take the risk anymore (we all agree that there is some health risk with AAS, right?). If I took them now even though I do not compete, I'd say that I have low self esteem. I think in general, taking legal and health risks because you aren't happy with your look is evidence of low self esteem. Now, HRT would be different because you are doing it to maintain your youthful health.

I also do not believe that competitive BBers have low self esteem. It's their career and a way to put food on the table. Same with police officers. Taking the risk for your career (i.e. money) is different than taking the risk so that you can wake up in the morning and simply be happy with your appearance.

Originally Posted by SubliminalX

I also do not believe that competitive BBers have low self esteem. It's their career and a way to put food on the table. Same with police officers. Taking the risk for your career (i.e. money) is different than taking the risk so that you can wake up in the morning and simply be happy with your appearance.

You make it sound like pro BB'ers woke up one morning and were like "i wanna be a pro BB". Sorry, doesn't work like that.


I still do not see the correlation b/w AAS users and low self esteem. But, while you're at it, you mine as well generalize it to all people who lift weights for cosmetic purposes. AAS is merely another means to an end and quickens the process of getting bigger/leaner.

Do some who life weights and/or juice have low self esteem? Sure. But no one can say the majority lifts and/or juices due to low self esteem. That's ridiculous.

I generally tend to avoid giving out info like name/addy etc. But my experiences over the last few years are easy enough to sum up and you can include the info as you like.

Expectations: I did a lot of research so I knew how much to expect in the way of muscle gains and that genetics and diet play the biggest role.

Results: 20-30 lbs keepable muscle tissue and 40-60 lbs overall bodyweight increase in about 1.5 years (less than that actually) using ph/ps and two aas cycles. I was on about half the time or less.

Postive stuff: I rid myself of a longtime binge eating disorder and boosted my metabolism to the point of almost being an ectomorph/mesomorph (6000+ kcals per day and no weight increase) even when I wasn't using steroids at all (after the cycle indefinitely). That is a big plus and has made a big difference in my life. Eating disorders can suck. Got lots of good comments when I bulked up and gained all the muscle. Even more when I proved that I could actually cut and lose the flab. Overall, like many users I do it to improve my quality of life overall and not for health benefits in particular.

I learned more about my body in this timespan than I ever have and since the process is so much faster while on I learned much more quickly what works and what doesn't in the gym. Saved years of needless effort.

Negatives: Definitely lost a lot of hair, but I could have avoided that by better planning and by giving a damn about it. Definitely got a mild case of gyno that I still have. More noticable than what I had at puberty. Had lots of other side effects but all were managable and based on bloodwork I am no worse off than when I started. Still have a few stretch marks. It is all a risk/reward thing anyhow and I was willing to take a bigger risk than non-users in some ways.

Never had a problem as I saw it with selfesteem in one way or the other. But I can say I am a lot more confident now for many reasons and that helps in my personal and professional life (good looks/success/confident attitude will make big difference in career down the line).

-Cardinal

Originally Posted by Flex

You make it sound like pro BB'ers woke up one morning and were like "i wanna be a pro BB". Sorry, doesn't work like that.


I still do not see the correlation b/w AAS users and low self esteem. But, while you're at it, you mine as well generalize it to all people who lift weights for cosmetic purposes. AAS is merely another means to an end and quickens the process of getting bigger/leaner.

Do some who life weights and/or juice have low self esteem? Sure. But no one can say the majority lifts and/or juices due to low self esteem. That's ridiculous.

Sounds like you're missing my point. Exercising and wanting to look and feel better in and of itself isn't evidence of low self esteem (although it is in a few cases). I'm referring to the taking of legal and medical risks (essentially going to extreme measures like drug usage) simply so that one can feel more satisfied with their appearance. Basically, it's the mentality of "it's worth the risks so that I can look better." That mentality also applies to plastic surgery patients who otherwise do not have any defect in their appearance. It is not an insult to say that someone has low self-esteem. But since most men are proud it's rare to find someone who admits it apparently.

I hope I've made it more clear on how the cosmetic motivation has a different basis than the money and professional accomplishment motivation. But it's only an opinion.

Originally Posted by SubliminalX

Sounds like you're missing my point. Exercising and wanting to look and feel better in and of itself isn't evidence of low self esteem (although it is in a few cases). I'm referring to the taking of legal and medical risks (essentially going to extreme measures like drug usage) simply so that one can feel more satisfied with their appearance. Basically, it's the mentality of "it's worth the risks so that I can look better." That mentality also applies to plastic surgery patients who otherwise do not have any defect in their appearance. It is not an insult to say that someone has low self-esteem. But since most men are proud it's rare to find someone who admits it apparently.

I hope I've made it more clear on how the cosmetic motivation has a different basis than the money and professional accomplishment motivation. But it's only an opinion.

I see no difference between taking steroids for sports or just to be bigger or look better. But what I have heard too many times are athletes trying to make themselves look and feel better by trying to distance themselves from recreational steroid users.

In all honesty I feel that an Athlete using steroids is easily the most insecure of the two. To cheat at sports, break the law and to take the health risks is a clear indication of someone who might have little or no confidence in their abilities. But to label either group is just foolish, everybody is different.

Originally Posted by SubliminalX

Your regular Joe Schmoe who simply lifts for a hobby and juices probably has low self esteem.

thats a very narrow-minded statement, and if you are going to call that out on juicers, you may as well say everyone that diets, works out, lifts weights, and takes general pride in there appearance for personal reasons has low self esteem... i find that statement pretty ridiculous

Originally Posted by SubliminalX

Sounds like you're missing my point. Exercising and wanting to look and feel better in and of itself isn't evidence of low self esteem (although it is in a few cases). I'm referring to the taking of legal and medical risks (essentially going to extreme measures like drug usage) simply so that one can feel more satisfied with their appearance. Basically, it's the mentality of "it's worth the risks so that I can look better." That mentality also applies to plastic surgery patients who otherwise do not have any defect in their appearance.

sorry but that is bullshit

i do this because it gives me a buzz, the next man might get a kick out of driving a car 0-60 in 7 seconds, i get a buzz out of lifting big weight, the strength i get is useful for the sports i play, and it is also a social thing as you meet plenty of cool guys down the gym that share the same interests... how the hell can you compare all that pain, sweat, adrenalin and sense of achievement to someone getting cosmetic surgery?

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

I see no difference between taking steroids for sports or just to be bigger or look better. But what I have heard too many times are athletes trying to make themselves look and feel better by trying to distance themselves from recreational steroid users.

In all honesty I feel that an Athlete using steroids is easily the most insecure of the two. To cheat at sports, break the law and to take the health risks is a clear indication of someone who might have little or no confidence in their abilities. But to label either group is just foolish, everybody is different.

I can see your point somewhat. But I disagree about your take on "the lack of confidence in one's athletic abilities." You've taken out the money aspect to make your argument, which was what my argument was based on. I would completely agree with you if it was recreational sport without financial implications.

I'll break it down into a generic scenario to see if this helps. It's sort of like the teenager who knows that they can't break the 1400 mark on the SAT, based on all the practice tests and studying. So he cheats to score a 1500 to better this prospect for getting into a top tier college. Is the cheating the result of lack of self-confidence in their abilities? They've already come to the realization that their abilities have a limit, and they've acted upon it by taking the risk to get the edge. Same if a police officer uses drugs to get the edge on the criminals they're chasing down. You can say these people are immoral, possibly, but I fail to see how the motivation is similar to the person who does it for cosmetics.

It's the risk vs. reward that is the issue, not the desire for self-improvement. Bottom line is, recreational juicer = social reward. Athlete or professional juicer = financial reward.

But yeah, everyone is different like you said. And I maybe I didn't make it clear in my first post that I wasn't trying to make a blanket label. But I still stand by my argument that you're more likely to find self-esteem issues among the recreational juicers than you are among people who do it for their careers. How many would admit it, or realize it, is really my original inquiry.

Originally Posted by young d

thats a very narrow-minded statement, and if you are going to call that out on juicers, you may as well say everyone that diets, works out, lifts weights, and takes general pride in there appearance for personal reasons has low self esteem... i find that statement pretty ridiculous

Taken out of context. The self-esteem issue isn't based on the desire for self-improvement. Sure, I take pride in not being a fat ass too. But I would not risk my freedom nor my health for it. Risks vs. rewards is what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the taking of risks for social rewards and self-satisfaction. That is a self-esteem issue. Taking risks to make money is, at the very core, based on the desire for survival. You need money to eat and take care of those you love, and within that context, many find that the risks of AAS are worth the reward.

Originally Posted by young d

sorry but that is bullshit

i do this because it gives me a buzz, the next man might get a kick out of driving a car 0-60 in 7 seconds, i get a buzz out of lifting big weight, the strength i get is useful for the sports i play, and it is also a social thing as you meet plenty of cool guys down the gym that share the same interests... how the hell can you compare all that pain, sweat, adrenalin and sense of achievement to someone getting cosmetic surgery?

That's great. I lift and maintain an active lifestyle because it gives me a buzz as well. But if you need drugs to get that buzz from your workout, you've got serious problems.

Originally Posted by SubliminalX

I'm talking about the taking of risks for social rewards and self-satisfaction. That is a self-esteem issue. Taking risks to make money is, at the very core, based on the desire for survival. You need money to eat and take care of those you love, and within that context, many find that the risks of AAS are worth the reward.

yeah i hear you, i've got this job working with my shirt off, and i definately feel the need to improve my physique for that if i want to stay on, and possibly take it futher (like work bigger events, get paid more money, diversify into modelling or something), that is definately a big factor in my decision, so i guess i could say my reasons are monetary as well as for self

Originally Posted by SubliminalX

B
Your regular Joe Schmoe who simply lifts for a hobby and juices probably has low self esteem.

That's Bullsh1t man. I wanna bench 350, right now I bench 325, you think I have a poor self image because I can
only bench 325 right now?

Originally Posted by SubliminalX

I can see your point somewhat. But I disagree about your take on "the lack of confidence in one's athletic abilities." You've taken out the money aspect to make your argument, Taking steroids to play in the N.F.L is ok but to take them just to play college ball is pathetic, most people juice up way before money is an issue......but if you were a division one starter and juiced up your Senior year in hopes to turn prow then ok that is probably a good idea which was what my argument was based on. I would completely agree with you if it was recreational sport without financial implications.

It's the risk vs. reward that is the issue, not the desire for self-improvement. Bottom line is, recreational juicer = social reward. Athlete or professional juicer = financial reward.

But yeah, everyone is different like you said. And I maybe I didn't make it clear in my first post that I wasn't trying to make a blanket label. But I still stand by my argument that you're more likely to find self-esteem issues among the recreational juicers than you are among people who do it for their careers. How many would admit it, or realize it, is really my original inquiry.

I have no problem with grown men intelligently using steroids for pro sports or just to look good. The only problem I have is when people use steroids or G.H. ect in natural/tested sports. Their is nothing more pathetic than a cheater who competes against natural athletes.........and I know that is a wide eyed way to look at it, but it is still how I feel.