musclepump

Conventional wisdom says the more you use, the more you'll need next time. Because the human body produces something like 50-60mg of Test a week (or so?), would it be better cumulatively, if one did a first cycle of Test E @ 250mg/wk and later did a 500, 750, 1,000, as time progressed? It just seems like jumping from 50 naturally to 500 is a big increase.

Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

TJ Cline

I grew like a weed on 300Mg test cyp a week.....it was my first cycle, did it for only 6 weeks and gained 15lbs and lost fat ( so I probably gained 20lbs or more of pure muscle from that tiny cycle)...now after jucing hard from 1998-2002 it seems I need twice the dose to grow and I have been natural for almost 3 years...

TJ Cline

I was doing 430Mg of test a week and 450 deca......I was having gyno problems..even with 20mg nol a day....so I droped it to 322mg and my gyno is gone....and still making decent gains......I also bumped up the deca to 600mg a week.

durk

this might be a little off topic I always wondered about my friends way back in highschool who started juicing without gaining anything naturally if say someone could have potentially gained 60ibs naturally but instead starts juicing before any natural muscle is gained and puts on 30ibs there first cycle, wouldnt it almost be impossible to gain the your full natural 60 pound limit without more juice because of the resistance your body would have to testosterone?

durk

iv also heard a natural bodybuilder say that if natral limit is say 200ibs and then you use steroids you could potentially go up to say 230, but if you use juice to get up too your 200 pound limit you will most likely not be able to surpass it. Is any of this true?

the reason for asking these questions is because I have already gained about 60 pounds naturally but almost every kid I know in my town has given up and used gear to make any progess thinking back on my highschool days I was the only one to try so hard and not give in will all this waiting till iv terned 21 pay off in the end I do have a killer mind to muscle connection and learned so much about BB, but I keep going to the gym and seeing these 16 year old kids with D-boll face and I dont really dont really know how to descourage them they dont care if there not going to get taller maybe if they knew that they could lose out on some muscle it would help? OR I could just tell them if they keep it up there dicks are going to shrivell up to an inch and stay that way

19-chief

try playing with http://www.come.to/roidcalc and compare it to natty testosterone... which is 7-12mg per day. don't forget you can adjust the half-lives. but it looks like even 250mg once per week will quickly put you at supraphysiological levels. although the first week ends with 13mg of active hormone, it quickly jumps to 37mg with the next inject.

Information that the character 19-chief presents is totally fictitious in nature and is presented for role playing purposes only. The opinions presented do not encourage the use of illegal substances nor take the place of professional medical advice.

BCC

The only limits to gaining 'weight' are at the dinner table.

TJ Cline

One cycle of steroids can put on 20-30 lbs.....if you juice for a few years and learn how to do it and what works for you it should be easy to put on 40 or 50 lbs of pure muscle.

AusBB

Also depends on your age as well. 250mg's of Test would work excellent on pretty much anyone that is looking for results, but would work for someone over 30 even better

Aus BB
Aus Bodybuilding Forum, Home of Australian Bodybuilding

jasone

I wonder what side effects could occur at this small dose. Hair loss, gyno, etc.

TJ Cline

Gyno is very rare ( almost never) in test doses under 400mg per week. Hair loss is 95% genetic so any dose of test will speed that up if you are genetically predisposed to it.

jasone

Do small doses like this require recovery drugs after the cycle (6 months) to bring back natural test production?

LAM

the human body can not tell if you have done 1 cycle or 50.

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

-----------------------------------------------------

What you talking about Willis ?

19-chief

of course; natural hormone production is always effected when it is there has been an exogenous source of it. i would think full pct will be required to bring it back.

this could be a relevant to running long low dose test... i'd image one could make great gains over 6 months this way... provided recovering isn't too bad.

Information that the character 19-chief presents is totally fictitious in nature and is presented for role playing purposes only. The opinions presented do not encourage the use of illegal substances nor take the place of professional medical advice.

musclepump

I think I may stick with Test only cycles, all 10 weeks. First at 200-250, second at 300, third at 400, fourth at 500.

Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

BCC

That's a smart idea, but you don't even necessarily have to raise the dose with each cycle.

Pirate!

Doing a first cycle of Test E for 10 weeks should yeild nice gains. I would frontload it for the first to shots, though. That is, do double the dose for the first two shots. I recommend this calculator above the one posted above: http://bulkmuscle.com/pct/

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

musclepump

Why frontload?

Another good thing about doing 250/wk is that it can all be easily done in one shot per week rather than two.

Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

CRASHMAN

I've been reading this thread and i think i'll join you with the 250 EW idea sounds like a good test (no pun intended) of how my body would respond and it seems that there are less sides on these low doses and you'd still grow like a weed

brogers

When do you plan on starting?

Ideally, I'll be starting a 10 week Test+Var (still working on dosing schedule) in a couple weeks. Right now:
wk 1-10 Test E 500mg (Considering dropping to 400 and/or frontloading)
wk 7-13 Anavar 40mg/ed (Considering running it in the beginning vs end and/or 50mg)

HCG 200-250ius 2x week starting week 2-3, ending a few days before PCT, PCT 40/30/20/20 nolva

musclepump

I'm starting in January

Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

CANIBALISTIC

I did something similar and noticed another 10lbs in two weeks time. I started at 175 @ 12% bf ended @ 210 @ 20% I have only lost about 5lbs during three weeks of PCT and it was mostly water weight currently I'm at about 205 @ 15%.

BTW good luck with that! What's your line up?

"A census taker once tried to test me. I ate his liver with some fava beans and a nice chianti." Anthony Hopkins (Hannibal) in Silence of the Lambs (1991)

CRASHMAN

no shit? i plan to start then too, what day do you plan on starting??

musclepump

Jan. 2... after my new years buzz

Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

musclepump

Just 10 weeks of Test E @ 250, all shot once a week on Monday.

Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

CRASHMAN

hey man i'lll run it with you i was planning the 1st but i didnt factor in the buzz lol i was going to do the low dose 250 after reading this too

Pirate!

If you frontload, your blood levels will reach optimum levels much faster. You can still do 500 mg (in one shot) once a week, the first two weeks. As is, over half your cycle will be spent with below peak blood T levels. Use that calculator and compare the two scenarios (Double dose the first two shots vs. no frontload).

Two roads diverged in a wood, and I—
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.

musclepump

Frontloading it is

Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

brogers

Any thoughts on using an oral for 4 weeks in the beginning and 4 weeks in the end?

ie, test 1-10, var 1-4, 8-12

LAM

anavar is a very mild oral, unless you are fairly new to resistance training you won't see much in gains. the cost vs gains just isn't there with anavar, for a decent anabolic effect for a seasoned weight trainer you need to go up to an easy 80-100 mg/ED for 6 weeks

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

-----------------------------------------------------

What you talking about Willis ?