Lomac

I'm just curious, why is deca a poor first cycle? Why is test better?

Also (obviously I know very little about gear) what is IMO?

I AM GETTING THERE

TJ Cline

1. Deca dick.....on an all deca cycle you will probably struggle to get it up
2. Deca is 2 or 3 times as expensive as test....and you need twice the dose to get the same results you would from test....

Tha Don

its not the fact that deca is a poor first cycle, its that test is a better first cycle, as test generally forms a good base for all cycles/stacks, also as foreman said test is cheaper and also more effective than deca

LAM

deca is a purely anabolic compound, if you don't take any androgens with it you can suffer from ED and your strength will also be in the shitter.

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

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What you talking about Willis ?

Pirate!

IMO = In My Opinion

Ron Paul

TJ Cline

I did a 1200mg a week deca cycle once. My strength and size made considerable gains and I suffered 0 side effects...test will give me some minor sides even at 400mg a week...
But if I did something like that cycle again I would add 300mg test a week or some Masteron.

Tha Don

you like your deca don't cha?

i'm on the verge of dropping it from my next cycle, just because i feel it would be useful to see how i respond to test only first, and TBH i think i can add a good 20lbs of LBM with test, zest and plenty of rest alone, i don't think i need anything else to reach my targets from the cycle my main aim is to stay trim coz i added way too much fat last time round (and the time before on PH's!!), and i'll be dammed if i end up getting fat again!

PWGriffin

I've been told deca is good for the joints, that's one of the reasons I'm taking it here soon, but I'm also stacking sust250 with it though. We will see...

Mudge

You are a freak though, you respond like nobodies business. Well, except for Lee Priest who only runs 2cc of deca a week.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

jasone

Correct me if I'm wrong but I think if you already have a good base deca can help one reach a higher plateau with the least amount of side-effects. Your results may not be a good as with test but it does work. I don't speak from personal experience but I have seen first hand visible results in weeks with friends who were experienced lifters. Remember with test you are injecting cholesterol into your system. Deca is a cleaner drug and can also be effective in small amounts (400mg/wk) Of course with any drug overuse can be counterproductive.

If you feel that your body already produces high test naturally than deca would be a better choice. My test levels are probably higher than most teens. This could explain my battle with hair loss. Test would destroy my attempts to regain controls over my hair line. I doubt that deca dick would be a problem if I decided to try. At 32 I am as much of a walking hard-on today than I was in my teens.

I have rededicated myself to training/diet and continue to make tremendous progress naturally. Over the past year I have gone from 20% body fat at 180 lbs to 15% at 200 lbs. Why interfere with success? If I wanted to cycle today deca would be my choice because I have natural high test. But if I waited until I was older and my test levels were low than test-e would be my choice. The answer to this question depends on the individual's chemistry.

I'm hoping you experts out there can help me if I'm wrong. I myself have been wrestling with the test vs deca question. By the time I decide, I will be close to 220 at 10- 15% bf naturally. Getting big off a first cycle will not be a problem, but making these gains in a safe way with regard to hair loss and health could.
Just some thoughts, thanks

Pirate!

Nobody has high test levels while running a deca only cycle, even if your natural test level is high. Deca causes complete shut-down of natual test production.

Ron Paul

gococksDJS

It wouldn't matter if you had test levels 100 times greater than a teenager, deca will shut down your HPTA. When your supplying your body with an exogenous source of hormones, your natural production shuts down, because it is not needed, and it will have to be kickstarted again once you come off, and deca is very suppressive.

TJ Cline

Wont using HCG help prevent deca dick?

musclepump

deca ddiiiccckkk! hahah...

Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

Stu

probably not, i think the loss of libido from deca is probably due to the fact it raises prolactin levels, similar to the way tren does.

Prolactin serioulsy kills your libido.

gococksDJS

Depends on several factors like how hard your shut down when you start using HCG, how much HCG you use etc etc. but while HCG stimulates leydig cells in your testis to produce testosterone, it is still suppressive to your hypothalamus and pituitary gland, so when you stop the HCG, your entire HPTA will be shutdown, because your hypothalamus and pituitary gland have been shutdown the whole time, despite HCG use.

Pirate!

Yep, HCG will keep your balls up to size, but it doesn't prevent deca dick.

Ron Paul

luke69duke69

So as long as you're running test with deca, you should be safe on the deca dick? and also as long as you run it two weeks shorter of a cycle than test?

lnvanry

damnit!!!!!!!!!!

Tren makes you limp...SOB...What if you run with test prop?
could that counteract the tren? I am running tren/prop mix for 3 weeks at the end of my cycle. I avoid Deca b/c of the effects of libido...If I knew that tren is going to do that I would have taken EQ the whole time

gococksDJS

Test may help prevent deca dick but you need to remember that deca is incredibly suppressive with an incredibly long half-life. But not everyone gets deca dick so it's not a guarantee.

Lomac

So if deca is so suppresive to the HPTA what is the correct PCT? Would you do anything different coming off deca then test, D-bol or anything else?
What determines how suppresive a AAS is?
Why do some people get Deca dick and some don't? (obviously genetics but what part?)

Srry for the mob of questions, This is just a fun post!

I AM GETTING THERE

Pirate!

Ever steroids taken in doses high enough to create anabolism will cause complete, or very near to it, shut down. To say that 400 mg of deca is more suppressive than 400 mg of test is incorrect. Either will completely shut down your natural test production. However, deca takes longer to recover from--which is what I think many people really mean when they say it is more suppresive. Some people think deca and tren shrink their nuts more. Personally, 700 mg/week of tren doesn't put a dent in my libido, but half that dose of nandrolone (Deca) does.

Ron Paul

TJ Cline

You have done 700mg of tren per week
what did you stack it with....and at what dose....

luke69duke69

So how long after your last shot will deca last? I know the half life is 15 days... Is it 15 days or is it longer til it's not suppressing your system?

gococksDJS

Technically the drug itself is not what is suppressing your system after your cycle because the levels have diminished. Say you weren't using HCG on cycle, and your testes have atrophied due to your HPTA being shut down. First your body has to sense the fact that your test levels rival that of a 5 year old girl. Then the process begins by your hypothalamus producing gonadotropin releasing hormones which signal your pituitary gland to produce leutenizing hormone (LH) which in turn stimulates the leydig cells of the testes to produce testosterone. But keep in mind that due to testicular atrophy, meaning your balls have lost some mass, your testes can't just jump back to normal test production. Think of your balls as a production line. When they're atrophied, they only have 5-10 employees working so they produce less product, but as the employee count increases, so does the production workload until eventually they reach maximum production capacity, which can't be done right away. How long this process takes in your body depends on several factors, like what gear you were running, length of your cycle and how fast your body can detect and relay these signals. It's different for everyone.

lnvanry

that has to be a typo....I'm running 75mg a wk. w/ 75mg of prop. (both for the first time)

gococksDJS

Your running 75mg of tren and 75mg of prop a week? This has to be a typo. Are you doing 75/75 ED?

jasone

I have yet to run across any trainer or athlete who complained about deca dick or low test during deca cycle. This stuff works off estrogen side-effects. Estrogen believe it or not helps to promote growth. The trick is not to go crazy with doses. I have yet to see an athlete or trainer complain about low