Tha Don

as the title says, should i run deca at 400mg/wk (for 10 wks) alongside test enan at 500mg/wk (for 12 wks) on my next cycle to improve mass gains, recovery and protect joints? or should i stick to test only to see how my body responds to test alone, so i can judge the effect of other compounds when i add them to the test base on future cycles?

please help young D decide

BCC

I would ditch it.

TJ Cline

I see no logical reason not to do it. It is clearly better than doing test alone.

BCC

I think deca allows too many trainees to train through injuries further inflicting themselves. If you're the type to take ibuprofen and train through the problem rather than fixing it, then maybe it's for you.

There is also speculation on nandrolone desensitizing leydig cells making the road to recovery a rough one. (The only 3 hypogonadal people I know made deca their choice of drug).

I know people that love it and swear by it, others that hate it. I did 200mgs E5D for 6 weeks and was left with nothing to write home about. I feel there are an abundance of better drugs out there.

Tha Don

such as...? (i'm only interested in anabolic injectibles)

Tha Don

that is my first line of thought also Dr.

BCC

I think it's foolish to look at "only anabolic injectables". Every AAS has a androgenic and anabolic makeup. There's no seperating one from the other.

I would choose EQ over deca anyday. I would choose a test only cycle over one with the addition of deca. Test and masteron, test and tren, test and anavar. Obviously tren is a harsh drug, and masteron and anavar and rare (for most) and expensive (for most) so they aren't going to be optimal picks. But you DO get what you pay for.

If you're after chasing weight on the scale and becoming a bloaty face roid head then test and deca will for sure do that. In my opinion most of the 'gains' folks see from deca are no more than some bloat.

TJ Cline

The idea of using dangerous oral sateroids for low leval contests or just to be "big" is ludicrous and irresponsible. I see no reason to use any thing but test alone or Test stacked with Deac or EQ. When you get up to a very high level ( pro qualifier) then you can throw in Tren, Anavar, Anadrol, GH or other steroids if you like.

LAM

since your first cycle was bogus I would still stick with test only this next time

Dumbest statement made in the Anabolic Zone for Nov

TBD

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What you talking about Willis ?

Tha Don

that is certainly not what i am after! i want lean hard gains, not big bulky watery ones! i don't like the bulky look at all (hence i'll be running the adex/prov)

maybe primo would be a better choice for me?

after this cycle i am planning more of a cutter, test/masteron with an sdrol kickstart and a var rearload, but i need a solid base of mass first really don't i

BCC

Because everybody uses anavar to be "big".

BCC

I think the best choice is to stick with the test and an AI.

TJ Cline

Anavar is very expensive and does almost nothing, to recommend it to a second time steroid user is irresponsible and just bad advice.

BCC

I didn't recommend it. I said I would choose to run it over test and deca.

So what anavar have you used? Since you know it does almost nothing? Because I would beg to differ.


The point I'm trying to get across is I think anything is better than nandrolone.

TJ Cline

Well lets see, you just turned 20 right......so I would love to hear about all the intelligent cycles you have done over the years and what you have learned from them. Sorry kid but to take advise from a teenage steroid user is probably the funniest thing I have ever heard of.

BCC

Well hey, I see you've "jumpstarted" a lot of cycles with dbol, is that because you're impatient and irresponsible?

BCC

Unfortunately pertaining to me, age doesn't mean shit. I have more knowledge than plenty of guys who've been doing this for years and years. I feel my advice is very credible.

BCC

It's funny you say that, yet imply I'm a walking pharmacy. So if I'm the walking pharmacy you say I am, then surely I have more experience than you to share.

TJ Cline

I did D-bol a few times yes. And what I learned from that was it was unecessary and just made the cycle more dangerous. At 38 I have probably done 20 cycles and of those 20 I used D-bol about 3 times, and used Anadrol once . Other than that I mainly used Test E or Cyp stacked with Deca or EQ...the total weekly dose typically was 500 test per week, 400 Deac per week or 400-600 EQ......so 900-1000mg total per week. Plus I trained for 8 years naturally before ever using any steroids.....hit 405 at 20yrs old at a body weight of 210...naturally. So impatient???? nope, I took my time and trained natural for many years.......irresponsible???? hell yes I made some mistakes in how I cycled as you have also.


I have some of my good and bad cycles posted here....feel free to post the ones you did as a teenager.....if you have the balls to do something like that.
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/sh...ad.php?t=54180 (cycle lessons)

TJ Cline

I have you by about 20 years in the gym and by about 18 cycles (God you were 19 years old a few weeks ago...I hope you havent taken as many cycles as I have.......LMAO) so I doubt it.

BCC

You're right. And the most important thing that you did was learn from them as am I.

My first mistake was doing it too early. Do you want to know why? Honestly why I started so early?

Because it had nothing to do with not making gains or "wanting to be huge". It completely had to do with misperception (which in part can be attributed to a lack of maturity).

I was 17 going on 18. If you were going to get recognized you HAD (so I thought) to win the Teen Nationals. In my mind I believed that if I didn't make it big as a teenager that physiques like mine would become a dime a dozen and I would have no opportunities to succeed in my 20s. I felt like it was all or nothing before I hit 20. So I began getting my feet wet with AAS. My first cycles started off great until I realized didn't see myself the same. By the end of the second cycle I wouldn't go to the gym without long sleeve shirts and sweatpants and slowly realized "I look like shit". I was falling behind (or so I thought as body dysmorphia had struck me). So I took about 6 weeks off after that cycle bringing me about 5 months away from teen nationals. Now in my opinion I needed a complete overhaul, I was going to be turning 19 and it was my last crack at teen nationals.

So I started off on a ridiculous cycle, the most I've ever taken. I got bigger and bigger but couldn't even see it. I got to the point where I couldn't go to the gym for more than 10 minutes because I thought people thought I was small. This was the beginning of spiraling into a depression (I was inconsistent with my injections at the time, my blood levels of hormones were as inconsistent as possible and it was wreaking havoc on my moods) for the first time (I didn't know what it felt like to be depressed, only that something was wrong). So it was time to clean up and reconsider. (I thought I looked so bad I ended up not even competing in teen nationals.)

Fast forward a year.

I didn't have to win shit to get attention, and I wish I could have seen that back then. But at least I learned about every appreciable lesson I could have in that time period and I won't be making any of those mistakes again.


And as a final side note believe me, I always told myself I would wait until I was 21 to touch anabolics, but I just got the best of myself.

TJ Cline

Good post........sorry for arguing with you, I'm glad we could both learn from our mistakes

I gassed up 4 or 5 months before my 21 B-day so I cant say for shure that I was old enough.....shit most of the guys I traind with gassed up at 18 or 19 so I think its verry common for people to make that mistake.

BCC

Hey, you still missed the year I "fast-forwarded" through


That's one for the "cycle lessons" thread. My last cycle taught me EVERYTHING I needed to know. I looked the best I ever have, felt for the most part the best I ever have, and experienced everything you wouldn't want to happen and everything you would. I completely used myself as a human experiment in my last cycle and pushed the boundaries. So much that I had blood drawn every two weeks. I experienced incredible things with no drawbacks to my health. I did it once, but never like that again.

lnvanry

Young D run your test w/ EQ or tren....maybe even a little prop mix too. Shit if you have the finances run all of it. EQ/TREN/TEST can put the LBM on that you seek

Screw the orals unless your strength and ego is a factor.
Besides Tren can take care of your strength gains

Stu

Just go with the cidos, keep it simple. It would suck getting deca dick at uni

gococksDJS

BCC, Im sure you hear this question all the time but im just wondering the stance your parents take on your anabolic use? Im just curious because when my dad found out I was using creatine at 17 he freaked out, but when I was 22 I started using anabolics, and he was much more calm about it until I got bloodwork and an EKG done 6 weeks in, and after seeing that my results were normal for a male my age he stopped caring at all. He actually asks me questions about steroid stuff he sees in the news.

BCC

Well in the beginning my parents were as ignorant as your average Joe. Luckily they're intelligent enough to have viewed all the literature I provided for them to sway them more towards my side. Of course they would like for me not to use them, but they know I'll do what I want and wish for me to go about it as safely as possible. My older brother and I started our cycles on the same day so I had him on my side as well when my parents came around to knowing. Sibling support helped very much.

Now my mom has been working out and eating healthy for the last 30 years so when it came to creatine, protein, ect, I never had a problem with my parents.

Eventually with all the things I had presented to them about AAS, they became interested in HRT, helping improve their lives.