Stanazolol (whinny?). strength and power? HELP!

**P-funk** · 11-15-2005, 01:36 PM

We have a thread in the training forum on olympic lifting. It seems that a lot of these strength athletes are getting banned for stanazolol (same drug that rafael palmero was busted for too). Ben Johnson also got busted for this.

Can anyone help the steroid uneducated? Why is it this drug seems to be the drug of choice for people in strength and power events that are short duration (olympic lifting, 100m sprint, etc..). What is it about the drug that makes it good for this as opposed to regular test? Also, the test would probably make them gain weight and then have to lift in a higher weight class. Does this drug offer minimal size gains?

here is the question from the thread (Olympic Lifting (amazing lifts)).

any help in answering these questions would be appreciated.

thanks,
funk.

gococksDJS · 11-15-2005, 02:13 PM

Im not sure if this is correct, but I think it might have a positive effect on red-blood cell count, but not like EPO. Winny is methylated so it can not be esterfied, meaning you can't control the rate of release into the blood stream. I'm not sure if this is true, but some people might think that the short half-life means a short detection time, when winny can actually be detected in your system for months after use. Water retention is also pretty minimal with winny.

**P-funk** · 11-15-2005, 02:18 PM

interesting. thanks!!

**dg806** · 11-15-2005, 02:30 PM

I have never understood this either. There are other drugs like tren and Anadrol which would help more in the strength area.
Winny is also a weaker drug than these two.

Tough Old Man · 11-15-2005, 02:31 PM

here's some more for you Patrick

The injections are the same compound as the orals, which is methylated. Due to this feat it can't be esterified for time-release. So its not quite suited for weekly injections although this is claimed on the package insert of the veterinary form of Winny. Another thing that would further add to the difficulty of time-release is that it is delivered in an aqueous solution. That would not exactly facilitate the entry into adipose tissue, needed for the esterification and storage of the substrate in the body.

The injectable version often gives more results. In similar doses there is still more breakdown upon first pass in the liver, making it difficult to get an equal amount absorbed. And on top of that it has to be mentioned that most people simply don't take an equal amount. Too many pills, lesser availability, higher cost. Many factors play a role in that. But of course an oral is to be preferred over daily injections as that gives the necessary complications as well. Think of abscesses and lumps, the searching for new injection sites due to pain and so on. Some have solved this problem by simply drinking the Winny injections. It's the same substance, also methylated to withstand the liver, the availability and price are better and its contained in water. So there really aren't many objections to this.

Of course because they are the same substance, regardless of the method of use, its not advised to use Winny for long periods of time. Slightly less hepatoxic than most 17-alpha alkylated substrates, so it can be used a bit longer, as long as 8 weeks, but longer than that is not wise. Elevation of liver values is quite common.

The specificity of Winny however, lies in how it counteracts estrogenic side-effects such as gyno and excess water retention. First of all it's a 5-alpha reduced substrate. 5-alpha reduction breaks the double bond between positions 4 and 5, which is required for conversion to estrogen via aromatase, the primary enzyme for the manufacture of estrogen in males. Because some of these compounds nonetheless show some affinity for aromatase they may have some use in blocking estrogen from other steroids they are stacked with. Wether or not Winny acts in this way is not entirely sure. What has been a popular point of discussion with stanozolol is its suggested anti-progestagenic effects. The theory goes that Winny can bind and compete for a position at the progesterone receptor much like Clomid of Nolvadex would at the estrogen receptor, thereby inhibiting progestagenic effects. Now, progesterone can aggravate estrogenic side-effects by agonizing estrogen and it does play a role in gyno.

We also discussed that certain steroids may indeed stimulate and act at the height of the progesterone receptor including nandrolone and Norethandrolone. These hormones are also altered by it inducing a decrease in libido and a sense of lethargy and such, and eventhough they aromatize in lesser rates than some other steroids, they show an equal capability to cause estrogenic side-effects, particularly when stacked with other aromatizable compounds. Now there is evidence that Winny does indeed bind to the progesterone receptor1 and its users do not indicate the normal characteristics of progesterone stimulation, which bodes well for these anti-progestagenic properties. There is also some clinical data that it does aid in symptoms that require progesterone suppression2. Much in the way danazol was also successfully used. The one thing we shouldn't lose sight of however is in what rate it binds to the progesterone reception. There is no data on this. For all we know it couldn't bind strong enough to compete with nandrolone or norethandrolone. So its not wise to state that Winny is an anti-progestagin per se, but it does make Winny a good match for these products in stacks in any case. Strong gains are never really made while using stanozolol (it's a weak androgen since it has no 3-keto group needed for androgen binding), but decent and fairly easy to maintain gains are possible. Its limited time of use however makes most experienced users opt for other steroids in that regard. Winny, in bodybuilding circles at least, is used mostly during cutting cycles to maintain mass. Winstrol, like a DHT compound also gives a distinct increase in muscle hardness and striations in people with a low body-fat percentage. This lends further credence that it too may be a an anti-estrogen. But most likely it has more to do with the overall lower levels of circulating estrogen. Winny is also quite effective at promoting strength because it binds very well at the androgen receptor. Short term stanozolol use can promote drastic strength, a feat often employed early in a bulking cycle (although d-bol would be more suited in that case) or late in a cutting cycle to prevent a decrease in performance. This combined with the red blood cell count-stimulating properties of its androgen affinity make it popular among track athletes as well in order to beget better results. As many, including Ben Johnson, did not take into account it can be detected for quite some time after last use so its not advisable for drug tested athletes. Many have assumed otherwise due to the short half-life, but apparently some inactive metabolites are easily esterified, so they can be found up to 5 months after the last injection.

**P-funk** · 11-15-2005, 02:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

I have never understood this either. There are other drugs like tren and Anadrol which would help more in the strength area.
Winny is also a weaker drug than these two.

maybe the weight gain thing? would those two make you put on more size?

**dg806** · 11-15-2005, 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

maybe the weight gain thing? would those two make you put on more size?

Probably. Winny is known to make your joints ache due to no water. Anadrol will make you hold water, but tren will not.

**P-funk** · 11-15-2005, 08:48 PM

thanks tough.

DG- interesting that athletes such as sprinters and olympic weightlifters would turn to a drug of this sort which would make your joints achey. I don't know how they can perform at top level with achey joints?

lnvanry · 11-15-2005, 10:44 PM

maybe their advisors are the real ignorant fucks...the atheletes just want to play and probably know nothing about the gear, and they probably trust their advisors

PreMier · 11-16-2005, 01:04 AM

Read the PDF's I sent you lol

Tough Old Man · 11-16-2005, 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

thanks tough.

DG- interesting that athletes such as sprinters and olympic weightlifters would turn to a drug of this sort which would make your joints achey. I don't know how they can perform at top level with achey joints?

You know Patrick we could be over looking something here also. There are ton's of peeps who want the additional strength without the use of needles. Wonder what % of them fall into that caterory

**Pirate!** · 11-16-2005, 03:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P-funk

thanks tough.

DG- interesting that athletes such as sprinters and olympic weightlifters would turn to a drug of this sort which would make your joints achey. I don't know how they can perform at top level with achey joints?

Exactly. It is real popular in baseball, too. We have all seen batters nail the ball and as soon as they start running they fall from a pulled tendon. Winny weakens your tendons and is not good for athletes that make sudden jerking type movements, such as sprinting. Weight lifters who use it usually use it to "harden up" the towards the end of a cycle of aromatizing steroids, which makes the joint pain not as bad as if using winny by itself.

Tough Old Man · 11-16-2005, 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PirateFromHell

Exactly. It is real popular in baseball, too. .

That's about to change real fucking quick after yesterday's new baseball regulations on the use of gear.

PWGriffin · 11-16-2005, 10:36 PM

wow, very informative...u know some books (anabolics 2005) even say/imply that winny is the way to go for cutting and strength gains...but don't really touch so much on all the negatives...I'm glad I'm apart of this forum...I've learned almost everything I know about applications and procedures from the knowledgable/experienced people on this site (tough, foreman, mudge, pirate just to name a few)

**Mudge** · 11-16-2005, 11:47 PM

Joint issues are individual, some get problems @ 50mg a day some run up to 150mg a day no problems (in that area).

TJ Cline · 11-17-2005, 12:55 AM

All the sprinters at my college loved winny......said it was amazing for their sport...who was I to argue?

**P-funk** · 11-17-2005, 04:27 AM

excellent posts guys.

Tough- that is a good questions? It actually makes me think about something that happens a lot (and has happened a lot in the past) in european countries with thier olympic lifters and olympians in general. They take their athletes so young (8-10) and begin to develop them. A lot of these athletes from coutries like the Soviet Union, Bulgaria, etc. come out years and years later and say that their bodies are messed up because when they were in their teen age years (12 or so) they were forced to take steroids and performance enhancing drugs in order to compete for their country without even knowing what they were taking. I think, it would be much easier to give a 12 year old an oral compound and say it is a "vitamin" that they have to take then to try and stick them with a needle.

ag-guys · 11-17-2005, 10:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

here's some more for you Patrick

The injections are the same compound as the orals, which is methylated. Due to this feat it can't be esterified for time-release. So its not quite suited for weekly injections although this is claimed on the package insert of the veterinary form of Winny. Another thing that would further add to the difficulty of time-release is that it is delivered in an aqueous solution. That would not exactly facilitate the entry into adipose tissue, needed for the esterification and storage of the substrate in the body.

The injectable version often gives more results. In similar doses there is still more breakdown upon first pass in the liver, making it difficult to get an equal amount absorbed. And on top of that it has to be mentioned that most people simply don't take an equal amount. Too many pills, lesser availability, higher cost. Many factors play a role in that. But of course an oral is to be preferred over daily injections as that gives the necessary complications as well. Think of abscesses and lumps, the searching for new injection sites due to pain and so on. Some have solved this problem by simply drinking the Winny injections. It's the same substance, also methylated to withstand the liver, the availability and price are better and its contained in water. So there really aren't many objections to this.

Of course because they are the same substance, regardless of the method of use, its not advised to use Winny for long periods of time. Slightly less hepatoxic than most 17-alpha alkylated substrates, so it can be used a bit longer, as long as 8 weeks, but longer than that is not wise. Elevation of liver values is quite common.

The specificity of Winny however, lies in how it counteracts estrogenic side-effects such as gyno and excess water retention. First of all it's a 5-alpha reduced substrate. 5-alpha reduction breaks the double bond between positions 4 and 5, which is required for conversion to estrogen via aromatase, the primary enzyme for the manufacture of estrogen in males. Because some of these compounds nonetheless show some affinity for aromatase they may have some use in blocking estrogen from other steroids they are stacked with. Wether or not Winny acts in this way is not entirely sure. What has been a popular point of discussion with stanozolol is its suggested anti-progestagenic effects. The theory goes that Winny can bind and compete for a position at the progesterone receptor much like Clomid of Nolvadex would at the estrogen receptor, thereby inhibiting progestagenic effects. Now, progesterone can aggravate estrogenic side-effects by agonizing estrogen and it does play a role in gyno.

We also discussed that certain steroids may indeed stimulate and act at the height of the progesterone receptor including nandrolone and Norethandrolone. These hormones are also altered by it inducing a decrease in libido and a sense of lethargy and such, and eventhough they aromatize in lesser rates than some other steroids, they show an equal capability to cause estrogenic side-effects, particularly when stacked with other aromatizable compounds. Now there is evidence that Winny does indeed bind to the progesterone receptor1 and its users do not indicate the normal characteristics of progesterone stimulation, which bodes well for these anti-progestagenic properties. There is also some clinical data that it does aid in symptoms that require progesterone suppression2. Much in the way danazol was also successfully used. The one thing we shouldn't lose sight of however is in what rate it binds to the progesterone reception. There is no data on this. For all we know it couldn't bind strong enough to compete with nandrolone or norethandrolone. So its not wise to state that Winny is an anti-progestagin per se, but it does make Winny a good match for these products in stacks in any case. Strong gains are never really made while using stanozolol (it's a weak androgen since it has no 3-keto group needed for androgen binding), but decent and fairly easy to maintain gains are possible. Its limited time of use however makes most experienced users opt for other steroids in that regard. Winny, in bodybuilding circles at least, is used mostly during cutting cycles to maintain mass. Winstrol, like a DHT compound also gives a distinct increase in muscle hardness and striations in people with a low body-fat percentage. This lends further credence that it too may be a an anti-estrogen. But most likely it has more to do with the overall lower levels of circulating estrogen. Winny is also quite effective at promoting strength because it binds very well at the androgen receptor. Short term stanozolol use can promote drastic strength, a feat often employed early in a bulking cycle (although d-bol would be more suited in that case) or late in a cutting cycle to prevent a decrease in performance. This combined with the red blood cell count-stimulating properties of its androgen affinity make it popular among track athletes as well in order to beget better results. As many, including Ben Johnson, did not take into account it can be detected for quite some time after last use so its not advisable for drug tested athletes. Many have assumed otherwise due to the short half-life, but apparently some inactive metabolites are easily esterified, so they can be found up to 5 months after the last injection.

great read!!!!

AG
www.ag-guys.com

TrojanMan60563 · 11-17-2005, 10:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

That's about to change real fucking quick after yesterday's new baseball regulations on the use of gear.

TOM IMO whats going to happen is guys are going to have people in labs making "designer steroids" that have never been tested so God only knows how bad they for these athletes or what its going to do to their unborn children. They will get detected and added to the list of "banned" drugs...they will walk away unpunished because it was not an illegal drug...this is my theory.

11-15-2005, 01:36 PM	#1
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,700	Stanazolol (whinny?). strength and power? HELP! We have a thread in the training forum on olympic lifting. It seems that a lot of these strength athletes are getting banned for stanazolol (same drug that rafael palmero was busted for too). Ben Johnson also got busted for this. Can anyone help the steroid uneducated? Why is it this drug seems to be the drug of choice for people in strength and power events that are short duration (olympic lifting, 100m sprint, etc..). What is it about the drug that makes it good for this as opposed to regular test? Also, the test would probably make them gain weight and then have to lift in a higher weight class. Does this drug offer minimal size gains? here is the question from the thread (Olympic Lifting (amazing lifts)). any help in answering these questions would be appreciated. thanks, funk. E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

11-15-2005, 02:18 PM	#3
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,700	interesting. thanks!! E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

11-15-2005, 02:30 PM	#4
dg806 Guardian of The Homeland Super Moderator Join Date: Jan 2002 Location: Charlotte NC Posts: 18,197	I have never understood this either. There are other drugs like tren and Anadrol which would help more in the strength area. Winny is also a weaker drug than these two. 1-Andro Rx Pro-hormone

11-15-2005, 08:48 PM	#8
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,700	thanks tough. DG- interesting that athletes such as sprinters and olympic weightlifters would turn to a drug of this sort which would make your joints achey. I don't know how they can perform at top level with achey joints? E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

11-16-2005, 01:04 AM	#10
PreMier happy sumo Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 21,962 Photos: 2	Read the PDF's I sent you lol P-side Inc. "the post-workout high is more profound than any drug-induced rush imaginable." -Dante B.

11-15-2005, 02:13 PM	#2
gococksDJS RIP Foreman Join Date: Jul 2004 Posts: 6,000	Im not sure if this is correct, but I think it might have a positive effect on red-blood cell count, but not like EPO. Winny is methylated so it can not be esterfied, meaning you can't control the rate of release into the blood stream. I'm not sure if this is true, but some people might think that the short half-life means a short detection time, when winny can actually be detected in your system for months after use. Water retention is also pretty minimal with winny.

11-15-2005, 02:31 PM	#5
Tough Old Man Canine club CEO Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: baja calif, Mexico Posts: 6,933 Photos: 1	here's some more for you Patrick The injections are the same compound as the orals, which is methylated. Due to this feat it can't be esterified for time-release. So its not quite suited for weekly injections although this is claimed on the package insert of the veterinary form of Winny. Another thing that would further add to the difficulty of time-release is that it is delivered in an aqueous solution. That would not exactly facilitate the entry into adipose tissue, needed for the esterification and storage of the substrate in the body. The injectable version often gives more results. In similar doses there is still more breakdown upon first pass in the liver, making it difficult to get an equal amount absorbed. And on top of that it has to be mentioned that most people simply don't take an equal amount. Too many pills, lesser availability, higher cost. Many factors play a role in that. But of course an oral is to be preferred over daily injections as that gives the necessary complications as well. Think of abscesses and lumps, the searching for new injection sites due to pain and so on. Some have solved this problem by simply drinking the Winny injections. It's the same substance, also methylated to withstand the liver, the availability and price are better and its contained in water. So there really aren't many objections to this. Of course because they are the same substance, regardless of the method of use, its not advised to use Winny for long periods of time. Slightly less hepatoxic than most 17-alpha alkylated substrates, so it can be used a bit longer, as long as 8 weeks, but longer than that is not wise. Elevation of liver values is quite common. The specificity of Winny however, lies in how it counteracts estrogenic side-effects such as gyno and excess water retention. First of all it's a 5-alpha reduced substrate. 5-alpha reduction breaks the double bond between positions 4 and 5, which is required for conversion to estrogen via aromatase, the primary enzyme for the manufacture of estrogen in males. Because some of these compounds nonetheless show some affinity for aromatase they may have some use in blocking estrogen from other steroids they are stacked with. Wether or not Winny acts in this way is not entirely sure. What has been a popular point of discussion with stanozolol is its suggested anti-progestagenic effects. The theory goes that Winny can bind and compete for a position at the progesterone receptor much like Clomid of Nolvadex would at the estrogen receptor, thereby inhibiting progestagenic effects. Now, progesterone can aggravate estrogenic side-effects by agonizing estrogen and it does play a role in gyno. We also discussed that certain steroids may indeed stimulate and act at the height of the progesterone receptor including nandrolone and Norethandrolone. These hormones are also altered by it inducing a decrease in libido and a sense of lethargy and such, and eventhough they aromatize in lesser rates than some other steroids, they show an equal capability to cause estrogenic side-effects, particularly when stacked with other aromatizable compounds. Now there is evidence that Winny does indeed bind to the progesterone receptor1 and its users do not indicate the normal characteristics of progesterone stimulation, which bodes well for these anti-progestagenic properties. There is also some clinical data that it does aid in symptoms that require progesterone suppression2. Much in the way danazol was also successfully used. The one thing we shouldn't lose sight of however is in what rate it binds to the progesterone reception. There is no data on this. For all we know it couldn't bind strong enough to compete with nandrolone or norethandrolone. So its not wise to state that Winny is an anti-progestagin per se, but it does make Winny a good match for these products in stacks in any case. Strong gains are never really made while using stanozolol (it's a weak androgen since it has no 3-keto group needed for androgen binding), but decent and fairly easy to maintain gains are possible. Its limited time of use however makes most experienced users opt for other steroids in that regard. Winny, in bodybuilding circles at least, is used mostly during cutting cycles to maintain mass. Winstrol, like a DHT compound also gives a distinct increase in muscle hardness and striations in people with a low body-fat percentage. This lends further credence that it too may be a an anti-estrogen. But most likely it has more to do with the overall lower levels of circulating estrogen. Winny is also quite effective at promoting strength because it binds very well at the androgen receptor. Short term stanozolol use can promote drastic strength, a feat often employed early in a bulking cycle (although d-bol would be more suited in that case) or late in a cutting cycle to prevent a decrease in performance. This combined with the red blood cell count-stimulating properties of its androgen affinity make it popular among track athletes as well in order to beget better results. As many, including Ben Johnson, did not take into account it can be detected for quite some time after last use so its not advisable for drug tested athletes. Many have assumed otherwise due to the short half-life, but apparently some inactive metabolites are easily esterified, so they can be found up to 5 months after the last injection.

11-15-2005, 10:44 PM	#9
lnvanry primeau Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Tucson Posts: 3,437 Photos: 16	maybe their advisors are the real ignorant fucks...the atheletes just want to play and probably know nothing about the gear, and they probably trust their advisors

11-16-2005, 10:36 PM	#14
PWGriffin The Damned Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: birmingham alabama Posts: 1,609	wow, very informative...u know some books (anabolics 2005) even say/imply that winny is the way to go for cutting and strength gains...but don't really touch so much on all the negatives...I'm glad I'm apart of this forum...I've learned almost everything I know about applications and procedures from the knowledgable/experienced people on this site (tough, foreman, mudge, pirate just to name a few)

11-16-2005, 11:47 PM	#15
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	Joint issues are individual, some get problems @ 50mg a day some run up to 150mg a day no problems (in that area). Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

11-17-2005, 12:55 AM	#16
TJ Cline Member Join Date: May 2005 Posts: 12,545	All the sprinters at my college loved winny......said it was amazing for their sport...who was I to argue?

11-17-2005, 04:27 AM	#17
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,700	excellent posts guys. Tough- that is a good questions? It actually makes me think about something that happens a lot (and has happened a lot in the past) in european countries with thier olympic lifters and olympians in general. They take their athletes so young (8-10) and begin to develop them. A lot of these athletes from coutries like the Soviet Union, Bulgaria, etc. come out years and years later and say that their bodies are messed up because when they were in their teen age years (12 or so) they were forced to take steroids and performance enhancing drugs in order to compete for their country without even knowing what they were taking. I think, it would be much easier to give a 12 year old an oral compound and say it is a "vitamin" that they have to take then to try and stick them with a needle. E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

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