thinking of taking clen/ winny for a cut...need some insight.

cheesegrater · 04-26-2006, 09:52 PM

when i cut last year, i lost too much muscle. i bulked for the winter and am at the weight and size i want, minus fat. i would like to keep as much muscle as possible and was told winny/ clen stack can help achieve this.

i was told taking it for two weeks then an E/C stack for two weeks, then the winny/ clen for two weeks, then finish off the cut with E/C would work.

now, since it's roids, i'm worried about getting bigger. i don't want to as my clothes would be unwearable and i'm at my target size. would this program of winny/ clen put any size on? also, would i get a testosterone boost from this dosage of winny? i mean this in the aggression sense of taking juice. i wouldn't mind a little kick, but i don't wanna go crazy. also, will excess acne develop from this stack? lastly, do i have to take anything, like ZMA i think i read, to ween off the juice after it's over?

any other comments about the overall efficacy of the stack or any other suggestions, fire away...

TJ Cline · 04-26-2006, 10:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesegrater

when i cut last year, i lost too much muscle. i bulked for the winter and am at the weight and size i want, minus fat. i would like to keep as much muscle as possible and was told winny/ clen stack can help achieve this.

i was told taking it for two weeks then an E/C stack for two weeks, then the winny/ clen for two weeks, then finish off the cut with E/C would work.

now, since it's roids, i'm worried about getting bigger. i don't want to as my clothes would be unwearable and i'm at my target size. would this program of winny/ clen put any size on? also, would i get a testosterone boost from this dosage of winny? i mean this in the aggression sense of taking juice. i wouldn't mind a little kick, but i don't wanna go crazy. also, will excess acne develop from this stack? lastly, do i have to take anything, like ZMA i think i read, to ween off the juice after it's over?

any other comments about the overall efficacy of the stack or any other suggestions, fire away...

You have been here almost 4 years and you are asking this......wow

Seanp156 · 04-26-2006, 10:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ForemanRules

You have been here almost 4 years and you are asking this......wow

Seeing that he only has ~400 posts, he's more than likely not a very "active" member, also I rarely even visit the anabolic section, but then again I don't have much need to. Just because he's "been here" for 4 years doesn't mean he should have a wealth of information on steroid use.

**Mudge** · 04-27-2006, 12:31 AM

The only thing winstrol will do to your testosterone level is put it on the floor.

Tha Don · 04-27-2006, 03:42 AM

winny and clen, hmm risky choices for a first time user, i could think of much better options

BigPapaPump68 · 04-27-2006, 07:45 AM

I know where you probably seen that stack at, because I have a million times. Dont believe your sources 100% either because they want there products to be sold.

**Pirate!** · 04-27-2006, 07:50 AM

You don't need steroids to maintain your muscle on a cut. Just perfect your diet and aim to lose 1.5 lbs of fat/wk. Set your caloric intake ~700 kcal under maintenance, and don't over do the cardio. Throw in one day a week where you overeat with tons of clean carbs. Using an ECA stack for 6 wks could help, as well.

Seanp156 · 04-27-2006, 09:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirate!

You don't need steroids to maintain your muscle on a cut. Just perfect your diet and aim to lose 1.5 lbs of fat/wk. Set your caloric intake ~700 kcal under maintenance, and don't over do the cardio. Throw in one day a week where you overeat with tons of clean carbs. Using an ECA stack for 6 wks could help, as well.

Just curious, what's the point of this? What is the effect it has on the body?

**Pirate!** · 04-27-2006, 01:44 PM

In theory, it helps keep you out of starvation mode. There are psychological reasons, as well. Read more about it here: http://ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=25250

cheesegrater · 04-27-2006, 03:34 PM

so clen/ winny is no good?

and yeah, been here 4 years but ventured into the anabolic zone once...

my diet for my cut last year was as good as i could make it:egg whites, hi fiber oatmeal, whole wheat bread, turkey, fish, lean beef, chicken, fruit, veggies and water based protein shakes....should i try the EC stack for a month or so and guage results?

**Pirate!** · 04-27-2006, 05:04 PM

Have you used ECA before?

cheesegrater · 04-27-2006, 08:19 PM

i did EC with yohimbe from some supp (cant remember the name) and finished off with Y from some topical gel (again, the name escapes me...the popular one) it worked, but i lost too much muscle to take it all the way down.

the A is aspirin right? is tylenol okay? one Xstrength each time i take the EC? i'm going to use the topical stuff again either way cause i really liked the results...

Trouble · 04-27-2006, 09:55 PM

Do you have a clue of how these compounds (clenbuterol and winsterol) function?

I think not.

You take your cutting ideas up to the nutrition and training section please, and we can talk about *how* to reduce fat mass and keep your present physical mass - that means adding lean muscle. The net result is you change density - do you understand? If mass stays the same, you reduce volume, harden up, gain more quality mass and support systems that allow you to retain your gains.

Jesu, a little biochemistry and physiology discussion would go a LONG way to help you fellas use your steroids to their best purpose and minimize the sides.

**Mudge** · 04-28-2006, 01:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cheesegrater

the A is aspirin right? is tylenol okay? one Xstrength each time i take the EC? i'm going to use the topical stuff again either way cause i really liked the results...

How long did you want to keep your liver? Tylenol is not aspirin.

Trouble · 04-28-2006, 09:31 AM

Oh aye, tylenol disrupts hepatic repair systems.

However, tis the nephrotoxic aspects that are worse.

Be kind to your kidneys and liver; use NSAIDs as sparingly as possible...use ibuprofen before using either acetominophen (Tylenol) or naproxen (Aleve, Naprosyn).

A note on naproxen: should you have used it for one or more weeks in the past for a heavy duty injury, be aware that a small percentage of the population develops a chemical sensitivity (call an allergy if you will) to Aleve and will have intense kidney pain / tenderness upon the next use of this compound. If this occurs, stop taking it immediately.

**Pirate!** · 04-28-2006, 01:59 PM

You don't need the Aspirin. It mainly seems to help obese people. Using just EC is fine and better suited for extended periods. The principle benefit is appetite suppression, IMO.

cheesegrater · 04-28-2006, 07:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Trouble

Do you have a clue of how these compounds (clenbuterol and winsterol) function?

I think not.

You take your cutting ideas up to the nutrition and training section please, and we can talk about *how* to reduce fat mass and keep your present physical mass - that means adding lean muscle. The net result is you change density - do you understand? If mass stays the same, you reduce volume, harden up, gain more quality mass and support systems that allow you to retain your gains.

Jesu, a little biochemistry and physiology discussion would go a LONG way to help you fellas use your steroids to their best purpose and minimize the sides.

no, i dont have a clue how these substances work...which is why i ask...

ps...i'm not necessarily concerned about keeping my weight where it is, at about 200, but i just want to cut all or as close to all of the fat off that i can without losing nitceable amounts of muscle...couldn't really care less about the number on the scale...

musclepump · 04-28-2006, 08:10 PM

I don't buy this bullshit about people always losing muscle when you cut. Keep your protein up, cut slowly, and you'll maintain.

ceffo · 04-28-2006, 10:51 PM

a good sample cutting cycle..

Week Tiromel T3 Clenbuterol
1 50 mcg/day 80 mcg/day
2 50 mcg/day 100 mcg/day
3 50 mcg/day 100 mcg/day
4 50 mcg/day 80 mcg/day
5 25 mcg/day 60 mcg/day

• First two days of the cycle take a 25 mcg daily of T3 (Tiromel) then you can
start with 50 mcg daily
• to put a side effects of clenbuterol (tremor,nervousness) on minimum divide
dose on more of them, try to take it five times daily but last one
not after 7 PM because sleeplessness

BigPapaPump68 · 04-29-2006, 07:10 AM

I dont really agree with you about running clen and t3 together for 5 weeks straight. The side affects that it gives you are not worth it. If your going to run it, I would suggest you cycling it.

ceffo · 04-29-2006, 02:12 PM

yeah .. i wouldnt call it a the safest but more for the exp guys who have done quite a fair few cycles and can read the signs of when to bak off etc

04-26-2006, 09:52 PM	#1
cheesegrater Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 469	thinking of taking clen/ winny for a cut...need some insight. when i cut last year, i lost too much muscle. i bulked for the winter and am at the weight and size i want, minus fat. i would like to keep as much muscle as possible and was told winny/ clen stack can help achieve this. i was told taking it for two weeks then an E/C stack for two weeks, then the winny/ clen for two weeks, then finish off the cut with E/C would work. now, since it's roids, i'm worried about getting bigger. i don't want to as my clothes would be unwearable and i'm at my target size. would this program of winny/ clen put any size on? also, would i get a testosterone boost from this dosage of winny? i mean this in the aggression sense of taking juice. i wouldn't mind a little kick, but i don't wanna go crazy. also, will excess acne develop from this stack? lastly, do i have to take anything, like ZMA i think i read, to ween off the juice after it's over? any other comments about the overall efficacy of the stack or any other suggestions, fire away... "fuck it all, and fucking no regrets" James Hetfield Damage Inc.

04-27-2006, 12:31 AM	#4
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,477 Photos: 1	The only thing winstrol will do to your testosterone level is put it on the floor. Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

04-27-2006, 07:50 AM	#7
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,171	You don't need steroids to maintain your muscle on a cut. Just perfect your diet and aim to lose 1.5 lbs of fat/wk. Set your caloric intake ~700 kcal under maintenance, and don't over do the cardio. Throw in one day a week where you overeat with tons of clean carbs. Using an ECA stack for 6 wks could help, as well. My 1-Andro RX Journal

04-27-2006, 01:44 PM	#9
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,171	In theory, it helps keep you out of starvation mode. There are psychological reasons, as well. Read more about it here: http://ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=25250 My 1-Andro RX Journal

04-27-2006, 03:34 PM	#10
cheesegrater Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 469	so clen/ winny is no good? and yeah, been here 4 years but ventured into the anabolic zone once... my diet for my cut last year was as good as i could make it:egg whites, hi fiber oatmeal, whole wheat bread, turkey, fish, lean beef, chicken, fruit, veggies and water based protein shakes....should i try the EC stack for a month or so and guage results? "fuck it all, and fucking no regrets" James Hetfield Damage Inc.

04-27-2006, 03:42 AM	#5
Tha Don Registered User Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Nottingham, England Posts: 3,826 Photos: 33	winny and clen, hmm risky choices for a first time user, i could think of much better options

04-27-2006, 07:45 AM	#6
BigPapaPump68 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,385	I know where you probably seen that stack at, because I have a million times. Dont believe your sources 100% either because they want there products to be sold.

04-27-2006, 05:04 PM	#11
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,171	Have you used ECA before? My 1-Andro RX Journal

04-27-2006, 08:19 PM	#12
cheesegrater Registered User Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Canada Posts: 469	i did EC with yohimbe from some supp (cant remember the name) and finished off with Y from some topical gel (again, the name escapes me...the popular one) it worked, but i lost too much muscle to take it all the way down. the A is aspirin right? is tylenol okay? one Xstrength each time i take the EC? i'm going to use the topical stuff again either way cause i really liked the results... "fuck it all, and fucking no regrets" James Hetfield Damage Inc.

04-27-2006, 09:55 PM	#13
Trouble Anti-mediocrity Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On Loan From A Distant Star System Posts: 2,076 Photos: 2	Do you have a clue of how these compounds (clenbuterol and winsterol) function? I think not. You take your cutting ideas up to the nutrition and training section please, and we can talk about how to reduce fat mass and keep your present physical mass - that means adding lean muscle. The net result is you change density - do you understand? If mass stays the same, you reduce volume, harden up, gain more quality mass and support systems that allow you to retain your gains. Jesu, a little biochemistry and physiology discussion would go a LONG way to help you fellas use your steroids to their best purpose and minimize the sides.

04-28-2006, 09:31 AM	#15
Trouble Anti-mediocrity Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2006 Location: On Loan From A Distant Star System Posts: 2,076 Photos: 2	Oh aye, tylenol disrupts hepatic repair systems. However, tis the nephrotoxic aspects that are worse. Be kind to your kidneys and liver; use NSAIDs as sparingly as possible...use ibuprofen before using either acetominophen (Tylenol) or naproxen (Aleve, Naprosyn). A note on naproxen: should you have used it for one or more weeks in the past for a heavy duty injury, be aware that a small percentage of the population develops a chemical sensitivity (call an allergy if you will) to Aleve and will have intense kidney pain / tenderness upon the next use of this compound. If this occurs, stop taking it immediately.

04-28-2006, 01:59 PM	#16
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,171	You don't need the Aspirin. It mainly seems to help obese people. Using just EC is fine and better suited for extended periods. The principle benefit is appetite suppression, IMO. My 1-Andro RX Journal

04-28-2006, 08:10 PM	#18
musclepump Celebrity PersonalTrainer Join Date: Nov 2004 Posts: 6,669 Photos: 128	I don't buy this bullshit about people always losing muscle when you cut. Keep your protein up, cut slowly, and you'll maintain. Let's all join together and SPEAK ENGLISH IN AMERICA.

04-28-2006, 10:51 PM	#19
ceffo Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 24	a good sample cutting cycle.. Week Tiromel T3 Clenbuterol 1 50 mcg/day 80 mcg/day 2 50 mcg/day 100 mcg/day 3 50 mcg/day 100 mcg/day 4 50 mcg/day 80 mcg/day 5 25 mcg/day 60 mcg/day • First two days of the cycle take a 25 mcg daily of T3 (Tiromel) then you can start with 50 mcg daily • to put a side effects of clenbuterol (tremor,nervousness) on minimum divide dose on more of them, try to take it five times daily but last one not after 7 PM because sleeplessness

04-29-2006, 07:10 AM	#20
BigPapaPump68 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2006 Location: USA Posts: 1,385	I dont really agree with you about running clen and t3 together for 5 weeks straight. The side affects that it gives you are not worth it. If your going to run it, I would suggest you cycling it.

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04-29-2006, 02:12 PM	#21
ceffo Registered User Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 24	yeah .. i wouldnt call it a the safest but more for the exp guys who have done quite a fair few cycles and can read the signs of when to bak off etc