Thread: Breathlessness on Trenbolone?

The condition is called rhabdomyolysis.

Hypocalcemia (low calcium) is the most commonly encountered electrolyte abnormality in this condition. It is usually self-limiting (transient).

Conventional treatment is to force water with electrolytes (particularly magnesium and sodium, but NOT calcium). Additional calcium may raise intracellular calcium levels and promote further muscle injury (the injured cells have already lysed due to hypertonic shock).

Use a sports drink, as you would use if you were dehydrated on a very hot day, that's the ticket.

The feeling of having difficulty breathing is due to an ion imbalance in the diaphragm muscle on your chest wall that maintains pressure differential for breathing.

Ho

Damn! Thanks! You're the only one that has given a good answer. Or any answer for that matter.

Is there a cure? Magnesium sups? Calcium? Electrolyte rich sports drinks?

Trouble, you are a pleathora of knowledge.

Originally Posted by luke69duke69

Trouble, you are a pleathora of knowledge.

Yep, and he knows a lot, too!

Originally Posted by Thracian

Yep, and he knows a lot, too!

Which you dont, because he is a she.

I haven't noticed breathlessness but a slight cough a little bit. Not bad or anything. Just a bit of a dry cough.

Originally Posted by Tough Old Man

Which you dont, because he is a she.

oops....

Originally Posted by luke69duke69

I haven't noticed breathlessness but a slight cough a little bit. Not bad or anything. Just a bit of a dry cough.

I get the cough also but it's not specific to tren. Test will cause it in me also from time to time. Tren however, is the only thing to cause the breathlessness.

The cough *might* be a different issue with solvents hitting the same upper GI reflex nexus.

Sports drink should do it, one that supplies water and electrolytes. You can find low carb versions if you have glucose tolerance issues. Do NOT take calcium - this is a situation of calcium buildup on one side of the membrane that can't efflux - not enough sodium to do the job. If you need to, use magnesium citrate in moderation (1/2 a gram at a time, couple doses a day, in plenty of water). Mg+2 is a cofactor (needed for calcium pump function, the protein that moves calcium across the membrane, the same one that also needs Na+ a well) for calcium ion transport.

This is a situation of poor intracellular buffering and ion translocation issues because of it. Acetate and citrate, along with phosphate, are the primary biological buffers to balance acidity and alkalinity in our cells. This case is an alkaline issue from the calcium.

Hope this makes sense. The long-hair technical description of the cause is tren promiscuous binding to nuclear receptor RAR, which activates PPAR, elicts a massive cAMP dump, and without sufficient magnesium and omega-3 fats, you get this tonus state in the muscle.

Bottom line: use omega-3 fats and magnesium citrate when you use tren. and keep yourself hydrated.

PS: there is a brand new paper in the german biomedical literature, June 2006, that describes exactly this clinical situation with tren.

Trouble you rock!!! I'm curious then, as far as calcium's concerned, should I be worried drinking three glasses worth of whole milk in my 3 protein shakes? I mix 3 scoops (72g total) in each shake and probably have about 10-12oz of milk. And since I'm on the question of protein, I normally hear that on average the body can only assimilate so much protein in a sitting. When someone's on gear, can they up that serving amount higher since your protein is processing it more quickly?

is trouble smarter than LAM? hmmmmm

Originally Posted by Trouble

Bottom line: use omega-3 fats

This is good advice when using any Anabolics.

Luke, I wouldn't think you're getting too much calcium - unless you have a problem with muscle cramps and that maybe an issue with hydration and magnesium. I wouldn't stop using milk, but I might argue that 2% or even skim might be a little kinder to your system, in terms of saturated fats consumption.

Do you need more protein while using anabolics? Oh yes.

Do you use more protein while on anabolics. Yes, thats true too.

Do you absorb more protein while on anabolics? In other words, does your protein absorption capacity improve while on anabolics? Mmmmmaybe.

Gut absorption was demonstrated in quite recently to be directly coupled to microvilli circulation and surface area. Microvilli are the fingerlike projections in the early gut that comb the intestinal flow of digested material passing thru gut for absorbable nutrients.

The key words: absorbable nutrients, microvilli surface area. How well you absorb is a function of your diet, your health, your microbial gut community health and the rate of nutrient ingestion.

If anabolics increase the vascular supply to these microvilli, then the answer is yes, presuming that you don't have gut infllammation issues that cause villi to slough off (Leaky gut syndrome) and your glutamine absorption and utilization is fully functional (a long story for another day).

So the answer is a guarded yes; you should take advantage of the benefits of anabolic use by supplying a greater protein loading each day than you would otherwise so that you build protein, rather than replace protein, breaking it down and building it up again at the same rate. You want a net gain in strutural mass from excess protein consumption. Thats anabolism.

Are you processing it more quickly? The rate of protein turnover that increases refers to the total number of cells repaired or replaced, so you spend more time and energy for anabolism than you normally do (sans chemical enhancement).

How much can you assimilate in one sitting? You work up to as much as 100 grams or more of good quality whey in one sitting. How do you get the most bang for buck? You slightly slow the release of whey so that you don't overwhelm the present net (that can adapt, so it changes over time) absorptive capacity with soluble and insoluble fibers and a little olive oil, and you add bridging proteins (moderate and slow release) to provide a steady rate of release of amino acids, some of which become energy (is converted to either glucose or the building blocks for fatty acids).

Use BCAAs for their capacity to directly signal for protein synthesis. I add them to my drink water several times each day. Quite anabolic on their own, and even better when fed with CEE.

You also use gut conditioners, probiotics and prebiotics, to help maintain and feed your gut microflora. Again, a story for another day and forum section.

Does this make sense?

Originally Posted by Trouble

Luke, I wouldn't think you're getting too much calcium - unless you have a problem with muscle cramps and that maybe an issue with hydration and magnesium. I wouldn't stop using milk, but I might argue that 2% or even skim might be a little kinder to your system, in terms of saturated fats consumption.

Do you need more protein while using anabolics? Oh yes.

Do you use more protein while on anabolics. Yes, thats true too.

Do you absorb more protein while on anabolics? In other words, does your protein absorption capacity improve while on anabolics? Mmmmmaybe.

Gut absorption was demonstrated in quite recently to be directly coupled to microvilli circulation and surface area. Microvilli are the fingerlike projections in the early gut that comb the intestinal flow of digested material passing thru gut for absorbable nutrients.

The key words: absorbable nutrients, microvilli surface area. How well you absorb is a function of your diet, your health, your microbial gut community health and the rate of nutrient ingestion.

If anabolics increase the vascular supply to these microvilli, then the answer is yes, presuming that you don't have gut infllammation issues that cause villi to slough off (Leaky gut syndrome) and your glutamine absorption and utilization is fully functional (a long story for another day).

So the answer is a guarded yes; you should take advantage of the benefits of anabolic use by supplying a greater protein loading each day than you would otherwise so that you build protein, rather than replace protein, breaking it down and building it up again at the same rate. You want a net gain in strutural mass from excess protein consumption. Thats anabolism.

Are you processing it more quickly? The rate of protein turnover that increases refers to the total number of cells repaired or replaced, so you spend more time and energy for anabolism than you normally do (sans chemical enhancement).

How much can you assimilate in one sitting? You work up to as much as 100 grams or more of good quality whey in one sitting. How do you get the most bang for buck? You slightly slow the release of whey so that you don't overwhelm the present net (that can adapt, so it changes over time) absorptive capacity with soluble and insoluble fibers and a little olive oil, and you add bridging proteins (moderate and slow release) to provide a steady rate of release of amino acids, some of which become energy (is converted to either glucose or the building blocks for fatty acids).

Use BCAAs for their capacity to directly signal for protein synthesis. I add them to my drink water several times each day. Quite anabolic on their own, and even better when fed with CEE.

You also use gut conditioners, probiotics and prebiotics, to help maintain and feed your gut microflora. Again, a story for another day and forum section.

Does this make sense?

It might if you explain Gut absorption.

Trouble I follow you here and on Wesley's site. I have to tell you that half the time I have no clue what your talking about. Now I don't consider myself stupid, but after reading 90% of your post, I have no fucking clue what your talking about.

You need to find a way to put your answers in laymen's terms or you not going to be much help to anyone. remember your not at work here and talking to a bunch of scientist like yourself. I really doubt if 10% of the people here or on Wesley's site understand you. I grab some of the info and the rest is on an airplane to Africa for studies.

Sorry I'm not trying to be cruel, but I'll bet I'm speaking for a shitload.

Think of the gut as a long thick walled tube. Instead of the lining being smooth, its a spongey mass of tiny fingers. Hold up your hand in front of you, hand open. Now close it. It has the same mass, but just a fraction of the surface area. The tiny fingers of the absorptive part of the intestines is covered in these fingers. They're fragile, and its been found that glutamine in the diet keep thems healthy and places a role in their physiology, how they function.

Just as your fingers need blood supply, so do these tiny fingerlet structures in the gut. In between them and covering them, is a candy floss layer of attached bacterial colonies. They protect the fragile surface of the gut lining and nourish it. THey, and key food sources, promote fingerlet health. In particular, the circulation, because absorbed material must pass thru the candy floss and into and through the cell lining, right into the blood supply, where its moved into liver and to the muscles.

The more growth enhancing foods you eat, the better the blood supply, the better the uptake of nutients into blood. The higher the number of fingerlets, and the more surface area in that number, the more likely you are to be able to digest and utilize a large serving of protein.

Does that makes sense?

Thanks!! I was away from a computer for a few but that makes decent sense. So what you're saying is to say add cottage cheese or something of that sort to slow the absorbtion of faster absorbing proteins like whey. Maybe for example drink my whey shake right after working out but drink it after consuming a meal if I know it's gonna be a while til I get a chance to eat ( meeting or bedtime)