Thread: Recommendations on gear use for 48 yr. old

Originally Posted by stonecold434

Greetngs.

I have been reading posts here for a while, with the intent of gaining knowledge
regarding steroids. I have been through the stickies. I am 48, 5'9", 210 Bicep is 16" cold. Not sure of bf%, guess about 14. Trained frequently, if not religiously, for about 20 years. Currently hit the gym a couple times a week, pound it hard (for me) and get out. No cardio. Diet isn't bad, probably a little protein deficient, but pretty clean. Never used any supps until the end of 2004. Bought 5 each of 1-AD and 4AD. Responded well to these...and if they were still available, I would cycle them probably forever. However, the wise ones, having banned a useful set of compounds for guys my age, force me to choose between real gear, or "designer" liver toxic flavor of the week 17a methyl products. I think I would rather just use moderate amounts of the real thing. Ideally, I would like to design a "permanent" cycle, one that I could pretty much stay on (assuming regular supply) for several years. I would like to keep my weight about where it's at, just adjust the body comp about 10-15 pounds the other way.

Any thoughts?

Have you had any blood work done? Test levels, cholesterol, BP? You might be a candidate for HRT. Outside of that, what do you mean "stay on for several years"? If you're not deficient in test now you surely could be after a couple of years of staying on.

At your age I would highly recommend a solid check up covering at the very least the things mentioned above. Then we can play.

I have had my OSHA physical done recently. BP is running about 125/80. Haven't checked test levels, I doubt if they are low. But hey, they could be always be better right? Cholesterol is about 160. I come from long lived people...I don't look or act anything like my age now. Overall health is outstanding. As far as staying for several years, I mean to cycle...off and on. Maybe 10-12 of test E, then Pct and a little time off and then do it again. Probably plan it around summers, kind of like the pro's have off seasons and contest time. At 48, I can train and eat and still not quite get what I want. The gear is for the edge, kind of a quality of life thing. Make sense? And I realize, anyone reading this, if you aren't past 40, you may not quite get it.

Those of us who are on get it. I assume you understand the basics such as time on = time off?

If you've only done pro hormones I would start with 400-500mg test EW for 10-12 weeks. There is no reason to start screwing with a bunch of things when you'll feel like a million bucks on test alone. You should respond nicely depending on your other factors like training and diet.

Well, that's pretty much what I had in mind. I do get the time off-time on. And I don't want to do a bunch of experimentation...if I find what works, I am done. Thanks.

Good thread stonecold434 ... and welcome to IM.

One clarification: What is test "EW" vs. test E? And how is that e-book titled "The secrets of mail order steroid success" Is that a good place to start?

"EW" stands for "Every Week." An example would be test e weeks 1-10 500mg/ew. As far as the ebook, it's up to you. I wouldn't waste my time on it, but I have also been around for a while and know alot of techniques.

Ah, every week. Well that is the plan. As far as the book, well my knowledge base at this point, as far as obtaining a source, is fairly minimal so I'll give it a shot. I am bound to learn something. This stuff can't be all that hard to get.

You could get the edge you are looking for at 250-300 mg/wk with minmal sides, but you won't become a monster at that dose. This is over twice as much as you currently produce naturally. There is no reason for you to use anything other than testosterone and anti-estrogens. You could benefit from GH, but it might increase your insulin resistance, so you would want to monitor that if you go that route. I agree that the mail order book is waste. A smart guy like you will figure out how it works soon enough.

Thank you for the information. It's funny, I was indeed thinking that I might want to do somewhere around 250mg vs 500. Definitely to start and see how my physique and mind respond to that. And wondering how much of a problem conversion to estrogen might be. I think at this point I have a pretty clear idea of what I want to do. I also realize I am probably missing a small piece of the puzzle regarding the actual mechanics of obtaining what I want.....although, this entire thread is strictly a theoretical and informational exercise on my part. Depending on more theoretical events, I may have an additional question or two regrading proper PCT, although I believe I have a decent grasp of the concepts involved. Thanks again for the help guys.

Get your Test tested but...unless my first test was wrong which showed upper 400's before any boost, im definitely stronger now using Androgel daily with Test levels in the 200's.
Total Test is all i see on bloodwork form and people mention free Test is also important so ask for that to get checked too before you start. Id like to know and wish i got it checked day 1.
Hope to swith to weekly injections soon. Hell of alot better.

You got to remember SC, that anything you find in the open on the internet, so can the ones looking to bust you. It's a very tough and tight game. Good sources will want strong refs from others vouching from you. That can only be obtained normally through hanging around others on boards sometimes for several years. No one is going to trust you right off the bat. Not saying you are a bad guy, just telling you how it is.

Thanks dq806, you are right. I have a couple different angles...and yeah it make take a while. Oh well. I realize you can't trust anything on the internet....but who could live without it anymore? Like most things it is a two-edged sword. And 'caveat-emptor" never goes out of style. Which not only applies to purchasing something...but also to the advice/information that you can find on a board....like this one. By the way, I just noticed your age, and you aren't that far behind me, pm if you want. I would appreciate knowing your experiences with things at our advanced age.....Thanks again.

Well, It definately can be beneficial. I think one thing to worry about the most as you get 40-50, is the lipid values. I think guys in this age range are affected more negatively with steriods than younger guys. It drops your HDL more, your LDL will be higher and you will probably notice more problems with blood pressure. Just be sure to keep a check on them. Jerseydevil is 51 I believe........maybe he can throw some input in also.

Hmmmm.... where do I begin? When I was 47 I started taking prohormones. Like you, 1AD (later M1t) and transdermal 4AD. Unlike a lot of younger people, I responded really, really well. After a several 4-6 week cycles, I was ready for the big time.

I did 3 cycles and really liked the result. Strength and size shot up quick. Before I cycled, I had regular bloodwork done because my doc is proactive and insisted on regular bloodwork every 6 months past the age of 45. Cholesterol was on the high side around 220 so I was on a low dose of Zocor, BP was fine, hemoglobin was fine.

To make a long story short, after these cycles my blood pressure shot up, which is normal, but it never returned completely to normal. I am now on BP meds. My cholesterol shot up, which is normal also, but my 'good' cholesterol is lower then it ever has been. My hemoglobin went thru the roof hitting almost 20, and my doctor was about to freak out because that indicates a stroke waiting to happen. I didn't tell him I was juicing, but admitted prohormones. In case you didn't know, high hemoglobin means your blood is rich in red blood cells (same effect as blood doping), but it also means your blood is too thick and can cause strokes because it clogs in the fine veins in your brain. It took almost a year after ceasing all steroids for it to come back down to normal. If that wasn't enough, I started having severe pain in my elbow which was diagnosed as tendonitis and arthritis (and I was using deca at the time). Here after a couple of years, the elbow has finally returned to normal. I believe the juice inflamed the injury.

Why do you want do use hormones again? To stay 10-15 lbs leaner and no weight gain? Maybe a good diet would serve you better, and that would be a helluva lot healthier and less expensive.

You are at the point I was a few years ago. I would be a hypocrite to say 'don't do it'. My suggestion would be to have your testosterone levels checked and use basic Androgel or test e injections. HINT: If you think your test levels are normal, drink plenty of alcohol the week prior to giving the blood sample. Also, go to the lab late in the afternoon when your normal testosterone levels are lowest, like around 2-3 PM. If they prescribe it to you, they are not going to give you enough to put you much past normal. Also realize if your test levels are in the normal range now, taking supplemental hormones will shut down your bodies natural production and in the long run, you'll probably be at or below where you are now. No free lunch my friend.

If I had to do over again, I wouldn't have even tried prohormones (although I enjoyed the ride). After training while 'on', natural training isn't a whole lot of fun. That is why after using prohormones you are looking for a permanent "solution".

Sorry to sound like your Mother, but this is how I feel about it now.

Originally Posted by JerseyDevil

Hmmmm.... where do I begin? When I was 47 I started taking prohormones. Like you, 1AD (later M1t) and transdermal 4AD. Unlike a lot of younger people, I responded really, really well. After a several 4-6 week cycles, I was ready for the big time.

I did 3 cycles and really liked the result. Strength and size shot up quick. Before I cycled, I had regular bloodwork done because my doc is proactive and insisted on regular bloodwork every 6 months past the age of 45. Cholesterol was on the high side around 220 so I was on a low dose of Zocor, BP was fine, hemoglobin was fine.

To make a long story short, after these cycles my blood pressure shot up, which is normal, but it never returned completely to normal. I am now on BP meds. My cholesterol shot up, which is normal also, but my 'good' cholesterol is lower then it ever has been. My hemoglobin went thru the roof hitting almost 20, and my doctor was about to freak out because that indicates a stroke waiting to happen. I didn't tell him I was juicing, but admitted prohormones. In case you didn't know, high hemoglobin means your blood is rich in red blood cells (same effect as blood doping), but it also means your blood is too thick and can cause strokes because it clogs in the fine veins in your brain. It took almost a year after ceasing all steroids for it to come back down to normal. If that wasn't enough, I started having severe pain in my elbow which was diagnosed as tendonitis and arthritis (and I was using deca at the time). Here after a couple of years, the elbow has finally returned to normal. I believe the juice inflamed the injury.

Why do you want do use hormones again? To stay 10-15 lbs leaner and no weight gain? Maybe a good diet would serve you better, and that would be a helluva lot healthier and less expensive.

You are at the point I was a few years ago. I would be a hypocrite to say 'don't do it'. My suggestion would be to have your testosterone levels checked and use basic Androgel or test e injections. HINT: If you think your test levels are normal, drink plenty of alcohol the week prior to giving the blood sample. Also, go to the lab late in the afternoon when your normal testosterone levels are lowest, like around 2-3 PM. If they prescribe it to you, they are not going to give you enough to put you much past normal. Also realize if your test levels are in the normal range now, taking supplemental hormones will shut down your bodies natural production and in the long run, you'll probably be at or below where you are now. No free lunch my friend.

If I had to do over again, I wouldn't have even tried prohormones (although I enjoyed the ride). After training while 'on', natural training isn't a whole lot of fun. That is why after using prohormones you are looking for a permanent "solution".

Sorry to sound like your Mother, but this is how I feel about it now.

I guess this confirms some of what I was saying in my previous post. JD is right, and something I always say, there is no miracle, no free ride as he puts it. It's just plain hard work and good diet. Great post JD, Thanks!

Thanks for sharing that man. A lot of food for thought there. Hypothetically, I am probably still going to try it, at least once. Just my nature. But I am going to lean more towards the moderate side. Not really looking for a free lunch, just a little extra edge. I think I will definitely get blood chem done to establish a base line. Not going to have docs involved in this much, most of the info I need is available somewhere. Again, you have given me much to think about and it's greatly appreciated.

Not going to have docs involved in this much

Unless you are in CA (and maybe one other state) you can get bloodwork done without a doctor involved. There are various places that offer this service at a fair price.

I am 47 an am on HRT. My total-T numbers were below 150ng/dL, my thyroid was shut down, and my cholesterol was 170. I now use (prescribed) 100mg x2/wk of T-cyp and take Armour thyroid to fix thyroid. Anyway, the only supp I use now is ZMA and here are my numbers:
Total Test: 1026 ng/mL
% Free: 2.63
Free: 269.7 pg/mL
Q-Estradiol 49 pg/mL
PSA 1.1 ng/mL
IGF-1 159 ng/mL
SHBG 22 nmol/L
My quality of life is incredible. I have lost 20 lbs fat put on 10 lbs of muscle, have a woodie every morning, and life is pretty good. I am one of those people that will be on HRT the rest of my life, and I ma okay with that.
Any questions?

If you want to look after your joints then it's worth considering combining 250-375mg Test E EW with Primo, EQ or Anavar:
Primo mild but with possible impact on prostate as it is DHT-based,
EQ increases red blood cells (see comments above about "thicker" blood"), and
Anavar tabs are 17-alkylated so will affect liver though nowhere near as bad as D-bol etc.

Reason for inclusion of one of these is that they increase collagen production which counteracts the fact that straight test decreases it; on straight test your muscles get stronger but tendons weaker and over 40 you might want to watch that. And all are more anabolic and less adrogenic than Test.

First cycle I'd try 375mg Test E per week plus EITHER 40mg Anavar per day, OR 250mg Primo per week, OR 250mg EQ per week. Others will advise more but they are usually under 40 and they tend to ignore the fact that you're stacking and base dosage recommedations on one main drug (eg. "you won't see anything from less than 400mg/week EQ" which might be true on its own but as part of a stack you will).

Straight Test is cheap and simple and allows you to see how your body reacts so you may want to try one cycle of this before the above.

For me it's about maintaining some sort of shape and quality not going all out for mass or competing, but I still keep a good high protein clean diet and train 3-5 days per week hard.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Flash

Thanks for the useful information gentlemen. I tend to agree with both your points of view regarding a certain amount of moderation...with results. I daresay we have different viewpoints and goals on this subject that are purely age related...we are just not after the same things as guys 15-20 years younger. I think I will be ready to give this a try around the end of the month...and I will post with resutls, impressions, sides etc. Actually, I think I will try your recommendations Flash, as far as the 375 of test EW and see what happens, then run the EQ as a stack the next time around. I still have to check into blood work...I get medical insurance through work in a couple weeks. Appaprently since I am in CA I will need a semi cooperative doctor. I will figure it out. Anyway, thanks again for posting guys. It is appreciated.

Had been on 1+ g per week for over a decade and a half. Listen to Dg108... I was a contender at a g+ for a while in my prime. Now, since I'm over 40yrs old, and no longer a contender, things have changed. I do one iu of rhgh a day, and one 250 sus per week. All is well. My blood work is great, including liver and kidneys. Have the 'average 18 year old peak amount" of test in the system. Around 1200 ng/ml and feel great. No bad (that I know of) AS tendencies, execpt spelling. Libido is good, strength is good, skin elasticity is good, eyes are clear, have a teenage attitude towards humor, non aggressive. What more can I say? Well, the downside is the legalities, the bad press from Baseball and other sports, whispers in the gym about 'he's not natural' and a host of other demeaning guilt things. However, when this 42 year old, single digit BF looks in the mirror after a shower, well, all is good. Modration in older age and all is well.
I cannot over emphasize the need for blood work at least every 3 months. A great place to get it done without it showing on med records would be at a sight called Life Extension Foundation - Highest Quality Vitamins And Supplements. Maybe 30 bucks for a good cbc, and 50 bucks for a cbc that includes test/estrogen levels. Maybe through in a PSA a couple times a year too. I think back in the day when competitive and cycleing we would call 250 a week bridge between real cycles. Seems bridging may be the real answer to your original question.
Cheers,
IR.
PS - I also do a shot of b-12 (100mcg) per day. good for nervs and red blood cells and is non toxic.

My total Test was 200 even with applying 5g androgel daily.
Switched to 100mg Test Cypionate once per week.
Will check levels soon as i get back from new york in 3 weeks.

I will say:
- the morning wood has returned
- i "feel" so much better
- mind seems sharper/quicker
- basic strength is coming back (with hard work of course)
- its awesome getting life back

What someone mentioned about tendons is interesting. research is never ending eh?

Thankyou makers of Injectable Steroids for saving my life.

Edit..Also wanna say ironhorse is right about B12. My neuro told me the same for nerves.

Originally Posted by stonecold434

Thanks for the useful information gentlemen. I tend to agree with both your points of view regarding a certain amount of moderation...with results. I daresay we have different viewpoints and goals on this subject that are purely age related...we are just not after the same things as guys 15-20 years younger. I think I will be ready to give this a try around the end of the month...and I will post with resutls, impressions, sides etc. Actually, I think I will try your recommendations Flash, as far as the 375 of test EW and see what happens, then run the EQ as a stack the next time around. I still have to check into blood work...I get medical insurance through work in a couple weeks. Appaprently since I am in CA I will need a semi cooperative doctor. I will figure it out. Anyway, thanks again for posting guys. It is appreciated.

Watch the tendons then.... Good luck.