edubz

I am 29 years old and what I have been doing since I was 23 to get cut is not working.

I am 5 10 185 pounds, I say 10 pounds over weight.

my muscles are building just fine, but the layer of fat on my belly is not going away fast enough.

I was going to try the EAC stack. If that doesnt speed up results i am thinking about using steroids for the first time in my life.

Whats the safest steroid to take to get cut. I want to lose my gut fat FAST. in 4 - 6 weeks.

Built

6 weeks for 10 lbs?

That's easy: PSMF

Mudge

6 years and you haven't figured out diet yet? Drugs will dissapoint you, because how you eat is why you look how you do and drugs are temporary.

Kinesiology Vote @ Top 25 Deads Comp Bench
Motivation Bench form MaxCalc Charles Poliquin
When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu
I don't know any sources so don't ask - thanks

BigDyl

ARGHHH, Pirate Mudge holds the key to the diet treasure. To get the booty, er the body you're looking for ye seek the most anabolic substance to be found on the high seas. Arrghhh, matey, ye be looking for FOOD!

</cheesy pirate reference>


4-6 is not enough time. May be possible with DNP, but forget i said that, way too dangerous.


Anyways, diet is a simple thing really. You have to eat below your daily caloric maintenance. So if your body uses 3k cals a day, and you eat 2000, you burn 1000 cals for the day. That's 7000 a week. 3500 calories in a LB of fat, that's 2 LB's of fat a week under the best circumstances. You could cut more but you'd risk losing muscle.

Each LB of fat can only release about 31 calories a day, so figure out how many lb's you're carrying, mutiple by 31 and subtract that from your daily maintenance. Run them at that level for a few weeks, utilizing weekly refeeds to keep metabolism going, and adjust from there. Rinse, repeat, welcome to the fun world of dieting, please don't enjoy your stay.

Total ownage.

Built

For "normal" dieting parameters, I quite honestly agree with you. But 10 lbs in 6 weeks would be a SNAP with PSMF - very little training, he'll keep most of his size and strength, and it's drugless.
Again, under normal dieting guidelines, I couldn't agree more. 1000 calories a day is a LARGE deficit. Too large to run for extended periods of time without a very specific protocol.

This is interesting! Where did you learn this, BigDyl?

Pirate!

PSMF = Protein Sparing Modified Fast.

That requires discipline that I assume is missing here. Steroids aren't the solution for this one. Fixing your diet is key.

Ron Paul

edubz

yes but as I have gotten older it has slowed down. I guess im just going to cut back even more, but all those juicy heads really look shreaded and I am sure a little edge will help my old ass.

katt

Oh... hello,, old?? you gotta be kidding me.. I'm way way older that you and I have the diet down... You have to get diligent and stick to it.. no cheating.. you'll get there, it's all self-dicipline and control..

Yeah drugs are great, but they are a short term answer and in my option the lazy way out for your problem.. you will lose the fat, but you'll gain it back when you quit the drugs and go back to your way of eating.

BigDyl

PSFM is obsolete in my opinion. Made obsolete by CKD diets like the anabolic diet. Going ketogenic is very catabolic. If you hover above ketosis by taking in roughly 20-30 carbs a day, you avoid catabolism and get all the benefits of keto. You can maintain this diet as a lifestyle also, and have 1 refeed day a week.. this is the anabolic diet, or the newer name: metabolic diet.


1000 calories a day is relative. If he burns 3500 calories a day, and ate 2500, and had 35 lb's of fat, technically he wouldn't have to go catabolic at all. Obviously everything changes when the fat is less. And using a CKD diet for large caloric defecits with refeeds is highly recommended.


31 calories a day was found from a research study done on older people who were pretty inactive. That number could be slightly higher... but for all intensive purposes...

Total ownage.

BigDyl

Scratch everything I said--10 LB's is easy.


Ok, you have 6 weeks. You'll need to lose 2 lb's a week. What i suggested above is the way you do it, infact you'll lose 12, and no muscle. Strength will go down but that's becuase glycogen is depleted. Once you up your carbs again, strength comes back. Some people actually get stronger on diets like that however because of the hormone advantage: naturally higehr test. Think whole eggs.

Total ownage.

Built

Um... BigDyl, 20-30g of carb a day I'm pissing purple keto sticks.

You may wish to check your facts.

I recently DID a PSMF. Worked a charm.

We're talking about Lyle McDonald's Rapid Fat Loss version here - let's make sure we're on the same page.

Sure he would - but that depends upon activity level, duration, etc., which I'm sure you already know, but I'll mention for the newbs.
I carb-cycle, you're preaching to the choir, trust me.

In this case, we're talking RAPID fat loss. PSMF is the BOMB for this.
I don't doubt you, but I'm interested in the source if you have it. I've never seen this figure before.

BigDyl, I'm not disagreeing with you, honest! I don't think you're familiar with the particular version of PSMF I'm referring to, and that's my fault - the boards I frequent use the acronym PSMF interchangeably with the actual title of this document. It's Lyle's book "Rapid fat loss - a scientific approach to crash dieting". Very well known and well thought-of in the bodybuilding community, and I know MANY, many people who have used it safely and effectively to kick-start their diets and or to make weight in a hurry without wearing themselves out.

Built

He should be eating whole eggs and plenty of fats ALL the time, not just while dieting.

Strength gains often come while cutting - but that's because an intelligent cut means you drop your training volume down and lift in short, heavy sets. Low training volume won't wear you out while cutting - you focus on keeping the iron on the bar and you might get a few more pounds up - after all, a 3 rep set of squats doesn't wipe you out like a 10 rep set will. This convinces the muscle to stick around, but doesn't wear you out since you're running on less fuel.

vader

10 lbs, no problem. Just get on the North Alabama meth head program and it will melt away

Built

OOooh - better!

BigDyl

20-30 carbs is pretty generalized. Some people will go keto at 100 carbs. Again, it's all relative, but you have to start somewhere. Also, just because you have trace ketones (i know purple is high) doesn't mean you're fully keto.

The diet I was refering to was by Mauro DiPasqule, the anabolic diet, originally published a decade before Mcdonalds. Both are good though and very similar IMO.


I'll find the source.

Total ownage.

BigDyl

"Based on a somewhat simplified analysis of what data exists (including the seminal Minnesota semi-starvation experiment), they conclude that the maximal rate at which fat stores can provide energy to the body is 290 +- 25 kj/kg which is approximately 31 kcal/lb of fat per day."


Determining the Maximum Dietary Deficit for Fat Loss by Lyle McDonald


It's actually by Mcdonald.

Total ownage.

BigDyl

I'm sure that number could be raised with exersize, stim's, and a higher RMR.

Total ownage.

dg806

It all comes down to dedication in your diet and the number of calories you consume while trying to loose the fat.
I think Lyle once said "you can get ripped on table sugar as long as calories in doesn't exceed calories burned". Bottom line.

"So as we set out this year to defeat the divisive forces that would take our freedom away, I want to say those words again for everyone within the sound of my voice to hear and to heed, and especially for you, Mr. Gore. From my cold dead hands!"




"I now begin the journey that will lead me into the sunset of my life. I know that for America there will always be a bright dawn ahead."
Nov. 5, 1994 - Ronald Reagan

BigDyl

Yeah, but you won't retain much LBM. There are much more efficent ways to deal with a cut that will spare LBM, and cut fat.

Total ownage.

Built

We all go into and out of ketosis daily, it's pretty normal of course you know all this too, but again, for the newbs.

Trace showing up does indeed mean you are in ketosis - and for that matter, darker purple can just mean you're dehydrated. What I think you're getting at is that you can be in ketosis but burning dietary fat, not bodyfat, or not much bodyfat - that's what you meant here, right?

Regarding the relative thing, yes it is. It also depends on bodyfat levels (fatter people go into ketosis easier), dietary fat levels, activity, and adaptation: once you've done this for a while, you get very good at getting into ketosis. Your body learns how, in a way. Moot point since it doesn't actually matter that you hit ketosis for anything but appetite control, but hey, I freaking LOVE to eat. ANYTHING that blunts appetite is a welcome trick in my fat-loss arsenal!
Yep, very similar.

McDonald revamped the old version of PSMF in his e-book, with categories for different bodyfat starting points that have different protocols to ensure mimimal LBM loss.

I did it for the first two weeks of my cut, to jump-start it while I was still a little juicy from Christmas cookies. It worked great - I dropped about 5 lbs of fat in two weeks with no cardio (okay I went for a walk or two but I was window shopping...) and only two, half-hour lifting workouts a week. I treated it like a deload.

I will stress that it is important to treat this for what it is - a jump start. You had better actually know how to diet properly once you come off this type of short-term intervention.

dg806

Oh absolutelty. I was just trying to make a point.

"So as we set out this year to defeat the divisive forces that would take our freedom away, I want to say those words again for everyone within the sound of my voice to hear and to heed, and especially for you, Mr. Gore. From my cold dead hands!"




"I now begin the journey that will lead me into the sunset of my life. I know that for America there will always be a bright dawn ahead."
Nov. 5, 1994 - Ronald Reagan

Pirate!

I enjoy these discussions. PSMF will induce ketosis. Ketosis is a symptom of a metabolic state, not a cause of rapid fat loss. The beauty of PSMF, in part, lies in the shift in the production of enzymes and alterations in second messenger systems. Basically, it's short term metabolic reprograming brought about by consistant low/moderate blood glucose levels and an over-abundance of amino acids. If I ever get fat and want to lose it as quickly as possible, I'd go with the Rapid Fatloss Handbook.

Ron Paul