The Official PCT of 2009

**Pirate!** · 04-15-2009, 12:30 PM

Arimidex is non-steroidal whereas Aromasin is not. Steroidal AI's probably shouldn't be used post-cycle. None of this applies to a 4 week cycle of Havoc, as strong AIs are not helpful when you will already have low estrogen.

LAGear · 04-15-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pirate!

Arimidex is non-steroidal whereas Aromasin is not. Steroidal AI's probably shouldn't be used post-cycle. None of this applies to a 4 week cycle of Havoc, as strong AIs are not helpful when you will already have low estrogen.

My question was if non-steroidal AI's should be used post-cycle. But if "none of this applies" then I'll assume I'm OK without either type of AI. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

And I assume I still don't need an AI even if I don't use a SERM. I've read a lot of people say if you don't use a SERM then you need an AI, but if I can safely complete PCT without a SERM or AI that would be fine with me.

Am I right in understanding that AI's can be the cause of delayed gyno that people sometimes get after completing PCT?

Thanks for all the info.

Primordial · 04-16-2009, 11:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAGear

My question was if non-steroidal AI's should be used post-cycle. But if "none of this applies" then I'll assume I'm OK without either type of AI. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

And I assume I still don't need an AI even if I don't use a SERM. I've read a lot of people say if you don't use a SERM then you need an AI, but if I can safely complete PCT without a SERM or AI that would be fine with me.

Am I right in understanding that AI's can be the cause of delayed gyno that people sometimes get after completing PCT?

Thanks for all the info.

He is saying that you wont need any kind of AI for PCT because you wont have estrogen to suppress after running the Havoc.

Even if you use a SERM, you really shouldn’t need an AI…. There is nothing wrong with a little estrogen.

And yes, AI’s (especially non-steroidial AI’s) will cause an estrogen rebound that can sometimes lead to gyno if you are prone.

-Eric

LAGear · 04-17-2009, 12:39 AM

I really, REALLY appreciate all the help. But I've made a change to my cycle. Instead of Havoc I'm going to run H-drol. There are just too many possible side effects from Havoc/Epi. It's considered mild but from all the complications I've read about (even with proper support and PCT) I'm disinclined to take chances. H-drol sounds like it's even more mild but still effective. I better start with that.

So I assume I can run the same support and PCT (including TRS) with H-drol but I'm wondering if an AI needs to be part of the game plan now.

I am so sick of learning and researching. I've probably spent close to 100 hours in the last month educating myself. It's going to be such a relief when I finally start my cycle!

Speaking of that, I'd like to start my cycle next week. Am I going to run into trouble if I don't run liver support before my cycle? A lot of people recommend that but I'm wondering if it's necessary with something as mild as H-drol.

lola1182 · 04-17-2009, 01:14 PM

great information on this thread. the PCT information was great especially the hcg info. this should be a sticky!!!

thane22 · 04-17-2009, 01:17 PM

very good read, thanks for the info.

Primordial · 04-18-2009, 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LAGear

I really, REALLY appreciate all the help. But I've made a change to my cycle. Instead of Havoc I'm going to run H-drol. There are just too many possible side effects from Havoc/Epi. It's considered mild but from all the complications I've read about (even with proper support and PCT) I'm disinclined to take chances. H-drol sounds like it's even more mild but still effective. I better start with that.

So I assume I can run the same support and PCT (including TRS) with H-drol but I'm wondering if an AI needs to be part of the game plan now.

I am so sick of learning and researching. I've probably spent close to 100 hours in the last month educating myself. It's going to be such a relief when I finally start my cycle!

Speaking of that, I'd like to start my cycle next week. Am I going to run into trouble if I don't run liver support before my cycle? A lot of people recommend that but I'm wondering if it's necessary with something as mild as H-drol.

Milk thistle for the liver is a good healthy choice… although I don’t think you “need” it.

-Eric

RoosterTX · 04-19-2009, 03:30 PM

Eric,

could you inform me as to the appropriate daily dose and schedule for taking milk thistle?

Primordial · 04-19-2009, 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoosterTX

Eric,

could you inform me as to the appropriate daily dose and schedule for taking milk thistle?

No schedule on this stuff… I would just take the recommended dose of whatever the bottle says.

I sometimes munch on milk thistle seeds… like as a food… they arnt going to harm you.

-Eric

Stewart14 · 05-01-2009, 07:59 PM

question for eric:

if one were to do a cycle of ironmag labs 1-andro rx, could the TRS be used as the sole source of PCT, and could it be does by using the sample chart you provided earlier in the thread?

Is the whole PCT thing as simple as finishing up your prohormone cycle, and then just using the products according to their dosing schedule and all would be fine?

Also, is it imperative (or recommended but not necessary) to have bloodwork done before and after a prohormone cycle, and what would you be looking for with the blood work?

thanks a lot!

Primordial · 05-01-2009, 10:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart14

question for eric:

if one were to do a cycle of ironmag labs 1-andro rx, could the TRS be used as the sole source of PCT, and could it be does by using the sample chart you provided earlier in the thread?

Is the whole PCT thing as simple as finishing up your prohormone cycle, and then just using the products according to their dosing schedule and all would be fine?

Also, is it imperative (or recommended but not necessary) to have bloodwork done before and after a prohormone cycle, and what would you be looking for with the blood work?

thanks a lot!

Yes, the TRS would be sufficient for the 1-andro PCT, especially if you keep the cycle 6 weeks or less.

If you wanted to get blood work, I’d recommend just checking total T and E2 right before the cycle, which is what are basic blood kits test for –

Home Testosterone & Estradiol Blood Test

Then test again about 2 weeks after PCT to make sure everything is back to baseline.

I wouldn’t say its imperative with a cycle like 1-andro though (which is fairly safe and mild).

BTW, are you throwing the TRS up on your blog!?

-Eric

Stewart14 · 05-02-2009, 01:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primordial

Yes, the TRS would be sufficient for the 1-andro PCT, especially if you keep the cycle 6 weeks or less.

If you wanted to get blood work, I’d recommend just checking total T and E2 right before the cycle, which is what are basic blood kits test for –

Home Testosterone & Estradiol Blood Test

Then test again about 2 weeks after PCT to make sure everything is back to baseline.

I wouldn’t say its imperative with a cycle like 1-andro though (which is fairly safe and mild).

BTW, are you throwing the TRS up on your blog!?

-Eric

thanks for the quick response. What do you mean by throwing it on the blog? you mean mentioning it? I haven't updated that blog in ages! ha. Of course, if I go ahead with some sort of cycle and I get any kind of decent results, I would definitely make mention of the products I was using without a doubt. which leads me to another question for you if you don't mind...
I was reading a journal from january of this year where you had a special for the HMS for $150. Are you planning on doing something like that again anytime soon, and if you are, is the 1-T product similar to the 1-andro product? Only thing is since it is a cream, is it safe to use with a newborn in my house? how much of a risk it is to the baby?

chronicelite · 05-04-2009, 06:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primordial

Yes, the TRS would be sufficient for the 1-andro PCT, especially if you keep the cycle 6 weeks or less.

If you wanted to get blood work, I’d recommend just checking total T and E2 right before the cycle, which is what are basic blood kits test for –

Home Testosterone & Estradiol Blood Test

Then test again about 2 weeks after PCT to make sure everything is back to baseline.

I wouldn’t say its imperative with a cycle like 1-andro though (which is fairly safe and mild).

BTW, are you throwing the TRS up on your blog!?

-Eric

Do you offer this to canadian residents? I doubt there is any such laws that prohibit collecting of specimens for canadians.

Primordial · 05-04-2009, 03:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart14

thanks for the quick response. What do you mean by throwing it on the blog? you mean mentioning it? I haven't updated that blog in ages! ha. Of course, if I go ahead with some sort of cycle and I get any kind of decent results, I would definitely make mention of the products I was using without a doubt. which leads me to another question for you if you don't mind...
I was reading a journal from january of this year where you had a special for the HMS for $150. Are you planning on doing something like that again anytime soon, and if you are, is the 1-T product similar to the 1-andro product? Only thing is since it is a cream, is it safe to use with a newborn in my house? how much of a risk it is to the baby?

Yeah… just curious about the blog… anything helps ;-)

We don’t have any plans for the HMS anytime in the new future. The 1-T could be considered similar to the 1-andro, but as a complete stack because of the balanced DHEA it contains.

If you are looking for something stronger (for more mass and strength gains) I would opt for the 1-T TREN.

You will have to avoid direct skin-to-skin contact with the newborn and the application site on your body. You will also have to keep the child out of the bed that you are sleeping on.

-Eric

Primordial · 05-04-2009, 03:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronicelite

Do you offer this to canadian residents? I doubt there is any such laws that prohibit collecting of specimens for canadians.

The shipping pack included with the testing kit doesn’t ship to the US from Canada so you would have to pay for shipping to get your sample back to ZRT.

-Eric

Primordial · 05-04-2009, 03:04 PM

FYI,

You can save $30 on the Testosterone Recovery Stack right now.

Just use the code MAXRECOVERY in the coupon field.

Valid only at Primordial Performance

-Eric

Whatsaroid? · 05-04-2009, 03:12 PM

For any of you who havent tried it your going to love the Testosterone Recovery Stack I ordered and use so much of it its ridiculous. You would think I'm a rep how many coworkers I have on 1-T and the recovery stack.

chronicelite · 05-04-2009, 07:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primordial

The shipping pack included with the testing kit doesn’t ship to the US from Canada so you would have to pay for shipping to get your sample back to ZRT.

-Eric

So would I still be charged for the pre-paid postage to the US ? Or can you do a little something for my case? These economic times have me broke...

Primordial · 05-05-2009, 03:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronicelite

So would I still be charged for the pre-paid postage to the US ? Or can you do a little something for my case? These economic times have me broke...

We have no flex on the shipping from Canada…. And the kits are already pre-packaged from ZRT. (We are just a vendor for them)

You could probably parcel the samples back for pretty cheap.

-Eric

chronicelite · 05-06-2009, 04:25 AM

I'm glad there is a simple alternative to lab testing for post cycle hormone levels now. Thanks so much Primo!

Primordial · 05-07-2009, 09:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chronicelite

I'm glad there is a simple alternative to lab testing for post cycle hormone levels now. Thanks so much Primo!

No prob... thanks for supporting us.

-Eric

Stewart14 · 05-08-2009, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primordial

Yeah… just curious about the blog… anything helps ;-)

We don’t have any plans for the HMS anytime in the new future. The 1-T could be considered similar to the 1-andro, but as a complete stack because of the balanced DHEA it contains.

If you are looking for something stronger (for more mass and strength gains) I would opt for the 1-T TREN.

You will have to avoid direct skin-to-skin contact with the newborn and the application site on your body. You will also have to keep the child out of the bed that you are sleeping on.

-Eric

Eric....I decided to go with the 1-Andro product mostly because of the children issues. I was looking at the active ingedients of 1-T and it says it has 112.5mg of androsterone per 5 pumps along with the DHEA. Now, I have been taking 600mg of androsterone from the 1-andro product. Is there a reason why the difference is so big? Am I taking too much, or is this due to the fact that 1-T has better absorption because it is a lotion?

Primordial · 05-12-2009, 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Stewart14

Eric....I decided to go with the 1-Andro product mostly because of the children issues. I was looking at the active ingedients of 1-T and it says it has 112.5mg of androsterone per 5 pumps along with the DHEA. Now, I have been taking 600mg of androsterone from the 1-andro product. Is there a reason why the difference is so big? Am I taking too much, or is this due to the fact that 1-T has better absorption because it is a lotion?

600mg/day is a good dose for oral 1-andro…. considering you have about 8% absorbed with the oral and about 35% absorbed with our topical.

-Eric

Primordial · 05-22-2009, 06:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Primordial

FYI,

You can save $30 on the Testosterone Recovery Stack right now.

Just use the code MAXRECOVERY in the coupon field.

Valid only at Primordial Performance

-Eric

This deal is runnin till monday... dont miss out...

-Eric

REXORE · 05-22-2009, 07:49 PM

Im going to be starting my cycle on tuesday of Pentadex 300 for 12 weeks. Its my first ever cycle what should my PCT look like?

Primordial · 05-24-2009, 07:19 PM

Hey guys… this is the last day of the sale… get your order in by Monday at midnight (the 25th) if you want to save $30 bucks on the Testosterone Recovery Stack!

Remember, the code is MAXRECOVERY… just enter it into the coupon field at Primordial Performance

-Eric

Primordial · 05-24-2009, 07:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by REXORE

Im going to be starting my cycle on tuesday of Pentadex 300 for 12 weeks. Its my first ever cycle what should my PCT look like?

You should run hCG during that cycle and do 40mg/day toremifene with the Testosterone Recovery Stack for 6-8 weeks after the cycle.

-Eric

Primordial · 06-03-2009, 02:47 PM

Also, raloxifene at 120mg/day seems to be a good alternative to toremifene... while possibly being safer.

-Eric

ironro · 06-11-2009, 04:54 PM

Eric,

Why do you start the HCG so long after starting the cycle?

Primordial · 06-12-2009, 02:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ironro

Eric,

Why do you start the HCG so long after starting the cycle?

2 weeks?

That time allows the sensitivity to build up, but past that point the sensitivity would begin to decrease.

-Eric

04-15-2009, 12:30 PM	#31
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,173	Arimidex is non-steroidal whereas Aromasin is not. Steroidal AI's probably shouldn't be used post-cycle. None of this applies to a 4 week cycle of Havoc, as strong AIs are not helpful when you will already have low estrogen. My 1-Andro RX Journal

05-01-2009, 07:59 PM	#40
Stewart14 Weapon of Choice Elite Member Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: in my home gym Posts: 3,608 Photos: 2	question for eric: if one were to do a cycle of ironmag labs 1-andro rx, could the TRS be used as the sole source of PCT, and could it be does by using the sample chart you provided earlier in the thread? Is the whole PCT thing as simple as finishing up your prohormone cycle, and then just using the products according to their dosing schedule and all would be fine? Also, is it imperative (or recommended but not necessary) to have bloodwork done before and after a prohormone cycle, and what would you be looking for with the blood work? thanks a lot! http://futuretrainer.blogspot.com/ --My new blog!!

05-04-2009, 03:04 PM	#46
Primordial Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: OR Posts: 161	FYI, You can save $30 on the Testosterone Recovery Stack right now. Just use the code MAXRECOVERY in the coupon field. Valid only at Primordial Performance -Eric Toco-8 - the best tocotrienol supplement. www.primordialperformance.com

05-04-2009, 03:12 PM	#47
Whatsaroid? IronMagLabs Rep Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Santa Monica Ca Posts: 163 Photos: 3	For any of you who havent tried it your going to love the Testosterone Recovery Stack I ordered and use so much of it its ridiculous. You would think I'm a rep how many coworkers I have on 1-T and the recovery stack. IRONMAGLABS INC. www.IronMagLabs.com Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders; By Bodybuilders! Best Quote "You have two choices in life: you can stay single and be miserable, or get married...and wish you were dead." - W.W. Renwick

05-24-2009, 07:19 PM	#56
Primordial Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: OR Posts: 161	Hey guys… this is the last day of the sale… get your order in by Monday at midnight (the 25th) if you want to save $30 bucks on the Testosterone Recovery Stack! Remember, the code is MAXRECOVERY… just enter it into the coupon field at Primordial Performance -Eric Toco-8 - the best tocotrienol supplement. www.primordialperformance.com

04-17-2009, 12:39 AM	#34
LAGear Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Posts: 5	I really, REALLY appreciate all the help. But I've made a change to my cycle. Instead of Havoc I'm going to run H-drol. There are just too many possible side effects from Havoc/Epi. It's considered mild but from all the complications I've read about (even with proper support and PCT) I'm disinclined to take chances. H-drol sounds like it's even more mild but still effective. I better start with that. So I assume I can run the same support and PCT (including TRS) with H-drol but I'm wondering if an AI needs to be part of the game plan now. I am so sick of learning and researching. I've probably spent close to 100 hours in the last month educating myself. It's going to be such a relief when I finally start my cycle! Speaking of that, I'd like to start my cycle next week. Am I going to run into trouble if I don't run liver support before my cycle? A lot of people recommend that but I'm wondering if it's necessary with something as mild as H-drol.

04-17-2009, 01:14 PM	#35
lola1182 Registered User Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: CA Posts: 200	great information on this thread. the PCT information was great especially the hcg info. this should be a sticky!!!

04-17-2009, 01:17 PM	#36
thane22 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Cali Posts: 20	very good read, thanks for the info.

04-19-2009, 03:30 PM	#38
RoosterTX Registered User Join Date: Feb 2009 Location: Colorado Posts: 233	Eric, could you inform me as to the appropriate daily dose and schedule for taking milk thistle?

05-06-2009, 04:25 AM	#50
chronicelite Member Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2006 Posts: 473	I'm glad there is a simple alternative to lab testing for post cycle hormone levels now. Thanks so much Primo!

05-22-2009, 07:49 PM	#55
REXORE Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: NY Posts: 27	Im going to be starting my cycle on tuesday of Pentadex 300 for 12 weeks. Its my first ever cycle what should my PCT look like?

06-03-2009, 02:47 PM	#58
Primordial Registered User Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: OR Posts: 161	Also, raloxifene at 120mg/day seems to be a good alternative to toremifene... while possibly being safer. -Eric Toco-8 - the best tocotrienol supplement. www.primordialperformance.com

06-11-2009, 04:54 PM	#59
ironro Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: ironville Posts: 3	Eric, Why do you start the HCG so long after starting the cycle?

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