Need some opinions

nunya53 · 05-24-2009, 03:11 PM

I'm going to do a six week enanthate 250 cycle shortly, my first injectables. I have done several M1Tcycles in the past, but want to move on. I've heard about kick starting test e, but don't want to use dbol. I still have about 100 5mg M1T caps so I've searched long and hard about stacking M1T & test e. I've found a few OLD threads about this, but have come across differing opinions on how to do it. Most suggest the M1T two weeks before the test, but I have also come across suggestions to use it at the end.

The M1T sides for me have been mild, and the stuff I have is coming close to the end it's shelf-life. I would rather use it than trash it, so if anyone has an opinion, I'd like to hear them....good and bad.

Thanks,

Nunya

VictorZ06 · 05-24-2009, 03:56 PM

6 weeks of enan @250mg ew is not the best choice IMHO, I would use prop instead if I had to run it for that short of a time. And if you use prop, no need to "kickstart" your cycle because prop works quick.

250mg of test e/w is a waste....shutting your levels down for only 250mg e/w is not worth it. You are better off using 500mg e/w for a good 10-12 weeks.

/V

**Pirate!** · 05-24-2009, 07:12 PM

6 weeks is way too short. I'd use the M1T during the first three weeks of the test (concurrently).

nunya53 · 05-25-2009, 08:01 AM

Alright, I'll stretch it out, but am going to stick with 250/week as it is my first cycle and want to see how I'll react. Also, I think I'm going to use the M1T between my last shot and PCT.

Nunya

VictorZ06 · 05-25-2009, 10:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunya53

Alright, I'll stretch it out, but am going to stick with 250/week as it is my first cycle and want to see how I'll react. Also, I think I'm going to use the M1T between my last shot and PCT.

Nunya

250mg alone is not worth it bro, you are wasting gear and $$. Well, it's your pocket. Good luck.

/V

nunya53 · 05-25-2009, 11:51 AM

I appreciate your input. I'm not locked in yet, and I've heard of people getting good results at that level on their first cycle. I'll let you know how it works out. If I do go with 250/week and don't get results...I will let you know.

I just want to be cautious and not obvious.

Nunya

VictorZ06 · 05-25-2009, 01:40 PM

I think Built said it best....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

You need more than 250 a week because when you go "on", your boys go "off" - they only respond to demand. If you inject your demand, they go to sleep.

Replacement test for you - like, if you were suddenly castrated and needed to have your testosterone supplemented exogenously as HRT - would likely be around 200mg/week (fellas, correct me if I got that part wrong). In order to feel an effect from a cycle, you need to take enough to completely replace your own test, PLUS go over.

So, suppose your boys put out 200mg a week. If you run a 50mg per week test cycle, your boys will drop down to 150mg a week and you'll still only have what you started with: 200mg/week.

If you run 250mg of test a week, you're shutting yourself down for what nets you a 50mg over normal test cycle.

If you're going to bother shutting yourself down, you might as well take enough to make the trouble worth your while.

Make sense?

/V

nunya53 · 05-25-2009, 02:36 PM

Point taken...so what would be the equivalent test levels of an average 41 year old male be? I've read that 250 mg/week is about 3X natural production. I'm having a tough time finding anything out on the 'net.

Nunya

Moondogg · 05-25-2009, 02:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VictorZ06

I think Built said it best....

/V

lol I was looking for that before the gym but couldn't find it before I had to go. It's a great way to explain the need for a sufficient amount of test.

VictorZ06 · 05-25-2009, 03:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunya53

Point taken...so what would be the equivalent test levels of an average 41 year old male be? I've read that 250 mg/week is about 3X natural production. I'm having a tough time finding anything out on the 'net.

Nunya

I can't answer that, we are all different and there are many factors to consider aside from age. You would have to get some blood work done to see where you are at.

Listen, I'm not saying you won't see any results on 250mg. You will...just not all that much.

But, for the amount of time, money, effort, training, dieting, etc. that you are going to put in, I just don't feel it's worth shutting down @ 250mg. I can't tell you how many guys I know that wish they ran 500 instead of 250 for their first cycle. Best of luck however you run it bro.

/V

nunya53 · 05-25-2009, 03:25 PM

I appreciate all your input.

Thanks,

Nunya

**Built** · 05-25-2009, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunya53

Point taken...so what would be the equivalent test levels of an average 41 year old male be? I've read that 250 mg/week is about 3X natural production. I'm having a tough time finding anything out on the 'net.

Nunya

Buddy of mine is sixty and takes 150mg per week for high normal. He weighs about 160 lbs.

Shadowcam · 05-25-2009, 11:46 PM

Whats your stats?

Aodha · 05-26-2009, 05:03 PM

the average test output is actually closer to 75mg weekly. But I understand your point, victor and built.

Aodha · 05-26-2009, 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nunya53

Point taken...so what would be the equivalent test levels of an average 41 year old male be? I've read that 250 mg/week is about 3X natural production. I'm having a tough time finding anything out on the 'net.

Nunya

That's exactly correct.

**Built** · 05-26-2009, 05:05 PM

Average for what age?

Aodha · 05-26-2009, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Average for what age?

I read it on isteroids.com. 20 - 30 years old.

**Built** · 05-26-2009, 05:55 PM

Well, my 60 year old buddy on HRT gets tested regularly and he's high normal on double that. 75mg seems kinda low.

Aodha · 05-26-2009, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Well, my 60 year old buddy on HRT gets tested regularly and he's high normal on double that. 75mg seems kinda low.

Hmmm. That's good to know. Makes me think. I've heard the 75mg from a few different resources but now I wonder.

Shadowcam · 05-27-2009, 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Well, my 60 year old buddy on HRT gets tested regularly and he's high normal on double that. 75mg seems kinda low.

Many people on HRT especially older people are on higher dose treatment than normal natural test levels.

**Mudge** · 05-27-2009, 12:45 AM

Remember that you have to take the ester weight into consideration, 250mg of cypionate is not 250mg of testosterone.

**Built** · 05-27-2009, 02:08 AM

Interesting! How much does the ester contribute to the weight?

**dg806** · 05-27-2009, 03:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Interesting! How much does the ester contribute to the weight?

Ester actual mg/100mg dose
test no ester 100
tren acetate 87
test prop 83
test enanth 72
test cyp 70
test undecan 63

**Built** · 05-28-2009, 12:32 AM

Oh, that's really good to know. I had no idea - thanks for posting this!

VictorZ06 · 05-28-2009, 06:48 AM

Also, suspension has no ester, thus no ester is calculated in the weight.

/V

abomb555 · 05-30-2009, 10:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dg806

Ester actual mg/100mg dose
test no ester 100
tren acetate 87
test prop 83
test enanth 72
test cyp 70
test undecan 63

execellent bo!

05-24-2009, 03:11 PM	#1
nunya53 jeet yet???? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Redneck Central (Little Rock) Posts: 91	Need some opinions I'm going to do a six week enanthate 250 cycle shortly, my first injectables. I have done several M1Tcycles in the past, but want to move on. I've heard about kick starting test e, but don't want to use dbol. I still have about 100 5mg M1T caps so I've searched long and hard about stacking M1T & test e. I've found a few OLD threads about this, but have come across differing opinions on how to do it. Most suggest the M1T two weeks before the test, but I have also come across suggestions to use it at the end. The M1T sides for me have been mild, and the stuff I have is coming close to the end it's shelf-life. I would rather use it than trash it, so if anyone has an opinion, I'd like to hear them....good and bad. Thanks, Nunya

05-24-2009, 07:12 PM	#3
Pirate! Gatekepper Moderator Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Texas Posts: 6,168	6 weeks is way too short. I'd use the M1T during the first three weeks of the test (concurrently). My 1-Andro RX Journal

05-25-2009, 08:01 AM	#4
nunya53 jeet yet???? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Redneck Central (Little Rock) Posts: 91	Alright, I'll stretch it out, but am going to stick with 250/week as it is my first cycle and want to see how I'll react. Also, I think I'm going to use the M1T between my last shot and PCT. Nunya Last edited by nunya53 : 05-25-2009 at 08:23 AM.

05-26-2009, 05:05 PM	#16
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	Average for what age? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

05-26-2009, 05:55 PM	#18
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	Well, my 60 year old buddy on HRT gets tested regularly and he's high normal on double that. 75mg seems kinda low. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

05-24-2009, 03:56 PM	#2
VictorZ06 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Manhattan Posts: 477	6 weeks of enan @250mg ew is not the best choice IMHO, I would use prop instead if I had to run it for that short of a time. And if you use prop, no need to "kickstart" your cycle because prop works quick. 250mg of test e/w is a waste....shutting your levels down for only 250mg e/w is not worth it. You are better off using 500mg e/w for a good 10-12 weeks. /V

05-25-2009, 11:51 AM	#6
nunya53 jeet yet???? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Redneck Central (Little Rock) Posts: 91	I appreciate your input. I'm not locked in yet, and I've heard of people getting good results at that level on their first cycle. I'll let you know how it works out. If I do go with 250/week and don't get results...I will let you know. I just want to be cautious and not obvious. Nunya

05-25-2009, 02:36 PM	#8
nunya53 jeet yet???? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Redneck Central (Little Rock) Posts: 91	Point taken...so what would be the equivalent test levels of an average 41 year old male be? I've read that 250 mg/week is about 3X natural production. I'm having a tough time finding anything out on the 'net. Nunya

05-25-2009, 03:25 PM	#11
nunya53 jeet yet???? Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: Redneck Central (Little Rock) Posts: 91	I appreciate all your input. Thanks, Nunya

05-25-2009, 11:46 PM	#13
Shadowcam Registered User Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Australia Posts: 506	Whats your stats?

05-26-2009, 05:03 PM	#14
Aodha Registered User Join Date: May 2009 Location: Arizona Posts: 48	the average test output is actually closer to 75mg weekly. But I understand your point, victor and built.

05-27-2009, 12:45 AM	#21
Mudge Dieting I swear! Super Moderator Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Here Posts: 23,474 Photos: 1	Remember that you have to take the ester weight into consideration, 250mg of cypionate is not 250mg of testosterone. Kinesiology Comp Bench MaxCalc Motivation Bench form Charles Poliquin When I let go of what I am, I become what I might be. Lao-Tzu

05-27-2009, 02:08 AM	#22
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	Interesting! How much does the ester contribute to the weight? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

05-28-2009, 12:32 AM	#24
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,113	Oh, that's really good to know. I had no idea - thanks for posting this! Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

05-28-2009, 06:48 AM	#25
VictorZ06 Registered User Join Date: Nov 2008 Location: Manhattan Posts: 477	Also, suspension has no ester, thus no ester is calculated in the weight. /V

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