Wanting Advice from the Experienced!

Ok I'm new here just started my account actually. This is my story I'm 6'5 205 Lbs. great shape, great diet, work out regulary, drink water all the time but I can't gain weight for the life of me. I gained about 15 Lbs. from the GNC protein shakes with creatine last summer along with regualr lifting. My body I would say is pretty toned but its like my body doesn't want to get any bigger than what it is now. I run a 52 sec. 400m dash, bench 215, no idea on sqat. I'm thinking if its time to start the alternative which is the "juice" as people would say I think it would be now cause I'm in good health. I would just like a good opinion on what I should do and what I should get and from where. I'm new so everything sounds foreign to me.
Thanks

Hi there

Your weight gain is being held up by one single problem: you do not eat enough calories.

FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal

Kindly enter a typical day's food and post up your calories, plus your grams protein, carb and fat.

If you can't gain off juice, you won't gain on juice. Humour me and post up your numbers?

I had the same problem until I went to the eating every 2 hours 6-8 times a day and added weight gainer shakes in the mix.
Now I put a little fat on but just did more cardio and I was good.
I did not start useing juice till I was 34 years old, I was at the end of my growing natural, but dam when I did my first cycle I put on 29lbs of muscle and after pct kept 23lb's I went from 190lbs to now 6 years later 248lbs and still lean at my age. Best to you

orite , i am new too body building . i have been given a 3week cycle of dianabol tabs .
i have heard there is no point taking them alone,
can i take normal creatine doses with these?
i am on a 40/40/20 diet and plan to train every night but intense 3times a week.
any advice on anything ?

kano1 said:

orite , i am new too body building . i have been given a 3week cycle of dianabol tabs .
i have heard there is no point taking them alone,
can i take normal creatine doses with these?
i am on a 40/40/20 diet and plan to train every night but intense 3times a week.
any advice on anything ?

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Not to flame you bro but DAM! you need to really research, dbol alone to me is pretty much a waste.
How old are you?
PLUS you hijacked this guys thread.
anyways my advice to you is to eat every 2-3 hours 6-8 times a day creatine and protien is all you will need.
Steroids are not magic.

Lone Wolf said:

Not to flame you bro but DAM! you need to really research, dbol alone to me is pretty much a waste.
How old are you?
PLUS you hijacked this guys thread.
anyways my advice to you is to eat every 2-3 hours 6-8 times a day creatine and protien is all you will need.
Steroids are not magic.

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orite i am 18, quite slim n need to gain body mass. iv research abit and heard test enanthate would be appropirate to take with dbol . is it legal 2 buy test enanthate ?

kano1 said:

orite i am 18, quite slim n need to gain body mass. iv research abit and heard test enanthate would be appropirate to take with dbol . is it legal 2 buy test enanthate ?

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wayyy to young to be using, no point.

OP, your base point is assesing your caloric intake for 1 week. Write everything down. From there, make increases 300-500 cals and ride that out for 2 weeks. Assess progress with the scale, mirror, measurements...

Thanks guy for the information. I will begin to start writing all my calories down instead of just mentally noting them. I'm always eating though, I mean constantly my friends can't believe I look the way I do for how much I eat compared to them. I'm a very upbeat person though so I'm sure it gets burned off quickly. I just have to be careful what I eat and how much because I have IBS and will get horrible stomach aches if I don't. I could eat a ton and then an hour later it feels like it has all left me. Is there a pill form of something with a small mg that I could try and see if it helps my muscle mass? I'm really willing to try about anything cause I feel like I live at the weight room and the time there isn't really paying off if ya know what I mean.
Thanks again guys for your time and knowledge!

Almost weekly someone posts on the Chemical Enhancement forum asking about first cycle advice. The most common questions are; ???what steroid should I take???? ???How long should I take it???? and ???What will the effects be???? There are literally dozens of steroids available and that makes it difficult for a first time user to choose. The following information will attempt to provide enough information for a first time user to make an educated decision about anabolic androgenic steroid use.
Testosterone is one of the most effective, safe and available steroids today, therefore I believe Testosterone is the best first cycle choice. The following text outlines the benefits and risks of Testosterone administration based on a clinical human trial of 61 healthy men in 2001. The purpose of the trial was to determine the dose dependency of testosterone???s effects on fat-free mass and muscle performance. In this trial 61 men, 18-35years old were randomized into 5 groups receiving weekly injections of 25, 50, 125, 300, 600 mg of Testosterone Enanthate for 20 weeks. They had previous weight-lifting experience and normal T levels. Their nutritional intake was standardized and they did not undertake any strength training during the trial. The only two groups that reported significant muscle building benefits were the 300 and 600 mg groups so any dose lower than 300mg will not be considered in this essay. 12 men participated in the 300 mg group and 13 men in the 600 mg group.
600mg of Testosterone a week for 20 weeks resulted in the following benefits. Increased fat free mass, muscle strength, muscle power, muscle volume, hemoglobin and IGF-1.
The same 600 mg administration resulted in 2 side effects. HDL cholesterol was negatively correlated and 2 men developed acne.
The normal range for total T in men is 241-827 ng/dl according to Labcorp and 260-1000 ng/dl according to Quest Laboratories. The normal range for IGF-1 is 81-225 according to Labcorp. Total T and IGF-1 levels were taken after 16 weeks and resulted in the following;

Total Testosterone
300 mg group-1,345 ng/dl a 691 ng increase from baseline
600 mg group-2,370 ng/dl a 1,737 ng increase from baseline
IGF-1
300 mg group-388 ng/dl a 74 ng increase from baseline
600 mg group-304 ng/dl a 77 ng increase from baseline

Body composition was measured after 20 weeks.

Fat Free Mass by underwater weighing
300 mg group-5.2kg (11.4lbs) increase
600 mg group-7.9kg (17.38lbs) increase
Fat Mass by underwater weighing
300 mg group-.5kg (1.1lbs) decrease
600 mg group-1.1kg (2.42lbs) decrease
Thigh Muscle Volume
300 mg group-84 cubic centimeter increase
600 mg group-126 cubic centimeter increase
Quadriceps Muscle Volume
300 mg group-43 cubic centimeter increase
600 mg group-68 cubic centimeter increase
Leg Press Strength
300 mg group-72.2kg (158.8lbs) increase
600 mg group-76.5kg (168.3lbs) increase
Leg Power
300 mg group-38.6 watt increase
600 mg group-48.1 watt increase
Hemoglobin
300 mg group-6.1 gram per liter increase
600 mg group-14.2 gram per liter increase
Plasma HDL Cholesterol
300 mg group-5.7 mg/dl decrease
600 mg group-8.4 mg/dl decrease
Acne
300 mg group-7 of the 12 men developed acne
600 mg group-2 of the 13 men developed acne

There were no significant changes in PSA or liver enzymes at any dose up to 600mg. However, long-term effects of androgen administration on the prostate, cardiovascular risk, and behavior are unknown. The study demonstrated that there is a dose dependant relationship with testosterone administration. In other words the more testosterone administered the greater the muscle building effects and potential for side effects.

Given the results of the study and based on years of personal experience I believe the first time user can safely use between 300-600 mg of testosterone enanthate or cypionate per week for 8-12 weeks. Because it is desirable to have even blood androgen levels I advise at least 2 equal injections per week. The following graph demonstrates that testosterone cypionate peaks within 1-2 days after injection and falls off to almost baseline by day 10. Therefore waiting 7 days between injections of cypionate would cause wide fluctuations in blood androgen levels.

Pharmacokinetics of Testosterone cypionate Injection

Figure. Pharmacokinetics of 200mg Testosterone cypionate injection. Source: Comparison of Testosterone, dihydrotestosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in serum after injection of Testosterone enanthate or Testosterone cypionate. Schulte-Beerbuhl M, Nieschlag E. Fertility and Sterility 33 (1980) 201-3.

If a first time user wanted to use 600 mg of cypionate or enanthate per week he would inject 300 mg on Tuesday and another 300 mg on Saturday each week for 10 weeks. When injecting long heavy esters like cypionate with this frequency I tend to have less acne then 1 injection per week.
There are a number of esters which provide varying release times. Acetate or propionate esters extend the release time of testosterone a couple of days. In contrast, a deconate ester prolongs the release of testosterone about 3 weeks. Testosterone enanthate and cypionate are almost identical esters. The use of an ester allows for a less frequent injection schedule than using a water based testosterone like suspension which has no ester at all and is rapidly in and out of your system after injection. The published release times are not exact and are many times based on a single injection not many multiple injections which can delay the release of the hormone. Other factors affect release times of esters such as scar tissue and the muscle group injected. Only a blood test can confirm when the active hormone has cleared your system.
Esters not only effect release times but also the potency of the Testosterone as esters make up part of the steroid weight. This must be taken into account when calculating dosages. The longer the release time the less free hormone. For example propionate is about 15% more potent mg. for mg. then enanthate so 500mg of propionate would equal about 575 mg. of enanthate. The following chart illustrates the free base equivalents for several compounds.


Although it was not indicated in the trial, during or after the steroid cycle some men are prone to gynecomastia which is the formation of female like breast tissue. This is due to excessive estrogen as the body tries to balance out the sex hormones. A selective estrogen receptor modulator or S.E.R.M. such as Tamoxifen can be used effectively to combat gynecamastia in an emergency as it competes for the estrogen receptor which in turn inhibits estrogens effects. It is highly recommended that a S.E.R.M. be available during treatment of Testosterone. 10-40mg daily is an effective dose however dosage is dependant on how much testosterone is administered as well as the individual himself.
The decision to use steroids should not be taken lightly and should be the last consideration after implementing a solid nutritional, training and recovery plan. It is advised to get blood work when using these medications.

Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men;
http://ajpendo.physiology.org/cgi/content/full/281/6/E1172








I briefly wrote about using Tamoxifen above for emergency gynecomastia treatment however I am convinced that there is a better strategy for controlling estrogen during a steroid cycle. Rather than waiting for the side effects of estrogen to present an aromatase inhibitor like Arimidex or Aromasin should be used on cycle to control Estrogen and keep free testosterone levels high. 0.5mg-1mg Arimidex daily OR 10-25mg Aromasin daily. Start with the lower dose and then see how that controls water retention, blood pressure and libido and make adjustments as needed. A blood test would be the most ideal way to determine the dosage of the AI. Free T needs to be in the high range and estradiol between 10-25 pg/ml.




Testosterone-Induced gonadotropin suppression tends to cause atrophy of the testes and decreases intratesticular testosterone. In other words, when a male administers testosterone his testes shrink because they are suppressed. A simple way to restore ITT levels and maintain the mass of the testes is to administer HCG during testosterone treatment. During a study it was determined that HCG is dose dependant and that approximately 300iu HCG taken every other day restored ITT levels. This is 1,050iu HCG weekly. I recommend 500iu twice weekly while on testosterone treatment. On a very heavy cycle a third dose of 500iu could be added but that is typically not needed. HCG will not only keep ITT levels and the mass of the testes normal but will also aid in keeping the male fertile.














I strongly believe that an AI should be used as long as there is an aromatizing compound being administered. In this case Testosterone and HCG aromatize therefore using an AI until these meds clear and a few weeks longer is what I am recommending. There is some evidence that adding Nolva to an AI does not increase the effectiveness of estro control therefore Nolva has no real advantage alongside an AI unless one is experiencing gyno. Additionally Nolva has been shown to reduce IGF-1 and GH levels. This is not a big deal on cycle as testosterone increases IGF-1 in a dose dependant relationship. However off cycle this is a problem. PCT is a fragile time and lower IGF-1 and GH levels is not desirable. I am recommending an AI that is specific to men that can be used on cycle and during PCT. It is my conclusion that Aromasin is the obvious choice.

I recommend the following PCT protocol for esters like Cypionate and Enanthate;

Day 1-16 : 2500iu HCG every other day. (You may use less HCG if your testes are normal in size AND you have been using HCG on cycle, i.e. 1,000iu HCG eod.)

100/100/100/50 Clomid (50mg taken twice per day weeks 1-3)

20mg/20mg/20mg/10mg Aromasin (20mg daily for 3 weeks, 10mg daily in week 4)

3g Vit C every day split in 3 doses

10g creatine daily

The HCG is administered BEFORE the ester clears to increase the mass of the testes and bring back ITT levels. This will allow the testes to sustain output of testosterone sooner.

Clomid is universally accepted as THE testosterone recovery tool. It blocks estrogen from the HPTA and stimulates the production of GNRH then initiates the production of LH, which in turn signals the testis (if not atrophied) to produce testosterone.

Aromasin or a similar aromatase inhibitor is for testosterone recovery and it is used to keep the testosterone/estrogen balance in favor of testosterone. It is also helps to keep any additionally occurring estrogen from HCG low to none.

Cortisol is catabolic. It is the enemy of all anabolism and must be kept in check. While it is blocked when under the influence of AAS, it is free to attach to the Anabolic Receptors (AR) once the steroids leave. Due to this blockage Cortisol tends to accumulate and increase when on. A low level is desirable however since it is important for other vital functions such as control of inflammation. Balance is the key. Vitimin C keeps the exercise induced rise of Cortisol in check.

The use of Creatine has shown to increase ATP metabolism and cellular water storage among many other things. This is beneficial because it provides for heightened nutrient storage and a slight increase in anabolism as well as workout stamina.

References

Testosterone dose-response relationships in healthy young men;

Pharmacokinetics and Dose Finding of a Potent Aromatase Inhibitor, Aromasin (Exemestane), in Young Males

Low-Dose Human Chorionic Gonadotropin Maintains Intratesticular Testosterone in Normal Men with Testosterone-Induced Gonadotropin Suppression

Use of clomiphene citrate to reverse premature andropause secondary to steroid abuse.

special thanks to those men and women who have influnced my thinking over the years in regards to aas use.

Written by heavyiron

A Little Help....

1992camarors said:

Ok I'm new here just started my account actually. This is my story I'm 6'5 205 Lbs. great shape, great diet, work out regulary, drink water all the time but I can't gain weight for the life of me. I gained about 15 Lbs. from the GNC protein shakes with creatine last summer along with regualr lifting. My body I would say is pretty toned but its like my body doesn't want to get any bigger than what it is now. I run a 52 sec. 400m dash, bench 215, no idea on sqat. I'm thinking if its time to start the alternative which is the "juice" as people would say I think it would be now cause I'm in good health. I would just like a good opinion on what I should do and what I should get and from where. I'm new so everything sounds foreign to me.
Thanks

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Some interesting and informative posts in here.
But I wanted to answer you directly 1991camarors... there may be several reasons why you dont gain more muscle. Diet could be one, lack or too much lifting could be another. Too much physical activity could be another. lack of proper rest could be another. There are many different reasons why you could be plateauing at your current weight. This needs closer examination to accurately suggest a cause. I have been training men for over 30 years and i would like to help you. I am a new sponsor to this site, and I operate both a professional supplement company and free online fitness training site where you are welcome to ask me any and all questions you need to to get to the bottom of proper training and supplementation. You can find my sites in the "Sponsor Forums" section of this board... look for MUSCLE FITNESS NUTRITION there. I will help you and any other person who needs more in depth help than what you regularly will get on a forum. People are so busy, and often the replies you get on forums just aren't enough, but i do this for a living, and I have the time to help... look me up there!

raiundazan said:

Hate to spoil your fun, but that "juice" as everyone knows (but continuously denies it), might hurt your bones. I have andropause and what I am on is natural testosterone for libido enhancement. I dont know if it would suit your age though. Go to the doctor before you try anything.

Libido Enhancement

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Nice job digging up an old dead thread.

Every one of this guys posts are just bullshit spam. On old ass threads no less.