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View Full Version : Why do steroids quit working in 8-10 weeks on cycle?



heavyiron
03-13-2010, 03:41 PM
From Dr. Pangloss;

The following may be the answer (tentatively). this report on myostatin (a powerful muscle growth inhibitor) shows that after 8 weeks on Testoterone, myostatin levels rise significantly. Fortunately it's dependent on Testosterone levels and not muscle mass. When you stop the Test, myostatin levels go back to normal....

8-10 weeks is when the gains from a cycle peeter out. Wish i had some solutble activinIIB receptor or myo-29 antibody to knock that shit off....


: Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2009 Apr 10;302(1):26-32. Epub 2009 Jan 21. Links

Measurement of myostatin concentrations in human serum: Circulating concentrations in young and older men and effects of testosterone administration.

Lakshman KM, Bhasin S, Corcoran C, Collins-Racie LA, Tchistiakova L, Forlow SB, St Ledger K, Burczynski ME, Dorner AJ, Lavallie ER.
Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston Medical Center, 670 Albany Street, Boston, MA 02118, United States.
Methodological problems, including binding of myostatin to plasma proteins and cross-reactivity of assay reagents with other proteins, have confounded myostatin measurements. Here we describe development of an accurate assay for measuring myostatin concentrations in humans. Monoclonal antibodies that bind to distinct regions of myostatin served as capture and detector antibodies in a sandwich ELISA that used acid treatment to dissociate myostatin from binding proteins. Serum from myostatin-deficient Belgian Blue cattle was used as matrix and recombinant human myostatin as standard. The quantitative range was 0.15-37.50 ng/mL. Intra- and inter-assay CVs in low, mid, and high range were 4.1%, 4.7%, and 7.2%, and 3.9%, 1.6%, and 5.2%, respectively. Myostatin protein was undetectable in sera of Belgian Blue cattle and myostatin knockout mice. Recovery in spiked sera approximated 100%. ActRIIB-Fc or anti-myostatin antibody MYO-029 had no effect on myostatin measurements when assayed at pH 2.5. Myostatin levels were higher in young than older men (mean+/-S.E.M. 8.0+/-0.3 ng/mL vs. 7.0+/-0.4 ng/mL, P=0.03). In men treated with graded doses of testosterone, myostatin levels were significantly higher on day 56 than baseline in both young and older men; changes in myostatin levels were significantly correlated with changes in total and free testosterone in young men. Myostatin levels were not significantly associated with lean body mass in either young or older men. CONCLUSION: Myostatin ELISA has the characteristics of a valid assay: nearly 100% recovery, excellent precision, accuracy, and sufficient sensitivity to enable measurement of myostatin concentrations in men and women.
PMID: 19356623 [PubMed - in process]

weldingman
03-13-2010, 03:59 PM
Very good artical.

Iron Dragon
03-13-2010, 04:12 PM
True, a major cause of gains slowing.

So you have 3 options. Stop, stay on at same dose for much longer, or increase your doses.

downtown
03-13-2010, 06:58 PM
Increase doses and start rotating your gears to more powerful ones.

TrojanMan60563
03-14-2010, 10:03 AM
Start at a lower dose and work up to a moderate one for a longer cycle....doesn't take much to see gains.

diablomex
03-14-2010, 10:51 AM
i was wondering ,if you can do a low dose of test for a long time, if so how long.and at what dose.

amazingmeyer
03-14-2010, 08:06 PM
Every year, for a 6 month period i do a 600mg a week dose of test and it works great for me never had a problem all my blood levels are great make great gains for the first 3 months than it stays flat!

coolermaster1219
03-14-2010, 08:13 PM
From Dr. Pangloss;

The following may be the answer (tentatively). this report on myostatin (a powerful muscle growth inhibitor) shows that after 8 weeks on Testoterone, myostatin levels rise significantly. Fortunately it's dependent on Testosterone levels and not muscle mass. When you stop the Test, myostatin levels go back to normal....

8-10 weeks is when the gains from a cycle peeter out. Wish i had some solutble activinIIB receptor or myo-29 antibody to knock that shit off....


: Mol Cell Endocrinol. 2009 Apr 10;302(1):26-32. Epub 2009 Jan 21. Links

Measurement of myostatin concentrations in human serum: Circulating concentrations in young and older men and effects of testosterone administration.

Lakshman KM, Bhasin S, Corcoran C, Collins-Racie LA, Tchistiakova L, Forlow SB, St Ledger K, Burczynski ME, Dorner AJ, Lavallie ER.
Section of Endocrinology, Diabetes, and Nutrition, Boston University School of Medicine, Boston Medical Center, 670 Albany Street, Boston, MA 02118, United States.
Methodological problems, including binding of myostatin to plasma proteins and cross-reactivity of assay reagents with other proteins, have confounded myostatin measurements. Here we describe development of an accurate assay for measuring myostatin concentrations in humans. Monoclonal antibodies that bind to distinct regions of myostatin served as capture and detector antibodies in a sandwich ELISA that used acid treatment to dissociate myostatin from binding proteins. Serum from myostatin-deficient Belgian Blue cattle was used as matrix and recombinant human myostatin as standard. The quantitative range was 0.15-37.50 ng/mL. Intra- and inter-assay CVs in low, mid, and high range were 4.1%, 4.7%, and 7.2%, and 3.9%, 1.6%, and 5.2%, respectively. Myostatin protein was undetectable in sera of Belgian Blue cattle and myostatin knockout mice. Recovery in spiked sera approximated 100%. ActRIIB-Fc or anti-myostatin antibody MYO-029 had no effect on myostatin measurements when assayed at pH 2.5. Myostatin levels were higher in young than older men (mean+/-S.E.M. 8.0+/-0.3 ng/mL vs. 7.0+/-0.4 ng/mL, P=0.03). In men treated with graded doses of testosterone, myostatin levels were significantly higher on day 56 than baseline in both young and older men; changes in myostatin levels were significantly correlated with changes in total and free testosterone in young men. Myostatin levels were not significantly associated with lean body mass in either young or older men. CONCLUSION: Myostatin ELISA has the characteristics of a valid assay: nearly 100% recovery, excellent precision, accuracy, and sufficient sensitivity to enable measurement of myostatin concentrations in men and women.
PMID: 19356623 [PubMed - in process]

Good Read
ty

weldingman
03-14-2010, 08:26 PM
You can do a low dose of Test the rest of your days pal.

coolermaster1219
03-14-2010, 08:28 PM
Start at a lower dose and work up to a moderate one for a longer cycle....doesn't take much to see gains.

I agree 100%, sorry I am very new here but this post caught my eye. with every cycle there is a time were you hit a Flat spot/stop getting gains and you are at a level were adding more juice is just going to be a waste of cash then its time to take a break. Anyone that has been in the game for some time knows what I am talking about. No matter what your body can only utilize so much synthetic test in a 24 hour period and that’s it. I did see some things on staggering gear which is always great and DIET, I just think people look at gear as the perfect fix, NOT. Good diet changing up you training routine and knowing when it just time to take a break. I have been training hard for 23 years and still always find a way to get a little gain here and there. Well just my 2 cents.

GH Consigliere
03-28-2011, 08:44 AM
Nice boobs opps guns i ment!!

GH Consigliere
03-28-2011, 08:45 AM
Great info!

Crank
03-28-2011, 09:35 AM
would upping the doses work to keep gaining?

Saney
03-28-2011, 10:01 AM
would upping the doses work to keep gaining?

YES! It was already mentioned in an above post

Just PM HeavyIron for some Pyramid Advice. Doing such will keep the gains coming long into a cycle.

If not, then Swith to quick Ester roids and use them for 8-10 weeks then Cruise.


GICH!

BigBird
03-28-2011, 10:17 AM
When I die I want to come back as a Bully Whippet.

alphabolic
03-28-2011, 10:29 AM
Or maybe you can just back-load an oral towards the end of your cycle instead of upping the test.

heavyiron
03-28-2011, 10:40 AM
would upping the doses work to keep gaining?
If timed properly, yes.

heavyiron
03-28-2011, 10:40 AM
Or maybe you can just back-load an oral towards the end of your cycle instead of upping the test.
Yup, that will work as well.

blazeftp
03-28-2011, 10:45 AM
Not trying to discredit Heavy here or anyone else.
Been on cycle 20 weeks still making steady gains.
Just have to fix my diet every few lb i gain.

heavyiron
03-28-2011, 10:49 AM
Not trying to discredit Heavy here or anyone else.
Been on cycle 20 weeks still making steady gains.
Just have to fix my diet every few lb i gain.
At 20 weeks myostatin is at baseline so you should be gaining with proper nutrition.

Also some guys have a lower myostatin response, ie genetics.

GH Consigliere
03-28-2011, 10:51 AM
this should be another sticky !! good info

dave.b
03-28-2011, 10:53 AM
i cycle for 6mnths at a clip,,i see a plateau effect after 3 mnths ,,but you arent losing are ya!!! cranks got it just increase doses.also a little humilin n works wonders,5 iu per day.

GMO
03-28-2011, 12:54 PM
Or maybe you can just back-load an oral towards the end of your cycle instead of upping the test.


Or do both...:winkfinger:

blazeftp
03-28-2011, 01:00 PM
At 20 weeks myostatin is at baseline so you should be gaining with proper nutrition.

Also some guys have a lower myostatin response, ie genetics.

So it would be beneficial to add a supplement such as myostatin when going on a long cycle?

Imosted
03-28-2011, 01:11 PM
So the study shows the rusults will fade away after 8-10 weeks, and this applies to all gear but EQ? i mean my experience and everyone else suggest it will start working after 10-12 of use and best results are around 16 or more weeks.

keith1569
03-28-2011, 01:36 PM
your a wealth of information man! thanks for the article

heavyiron
03-28-2011, 02:09 PM
So it would be beneficial to add a supplement such as myostatin when going on a long cycle?
Myostatin is a powerful growth inhibitor (bad for growth). It raises when you use testosterone to keep your body in homeostasis. However it falls to baseline if you stay on.

heavyiron
03-28-2011, 02:09 PM
Or do both...:winkfinger:
This is the type of thinking I like...

keith1569
03-28-2011, 02:10 PM
Myostatin is a powerful growth inhibitor (bad for growth). It raises when you use testosterone to keep your body in homeostasis. However it falls to baseline if you stay on.

So in theory you dont would not need to increase dosage to continue seeing gains? Just stay on long enough for your myostatin to fall back to baseline?

UA_Iron
03-28-2011, 04:37 PM
This isn't the *only* reason that AAS will appear to stop working after a certain amount of time. The mechanisms regarding all this are extremely complex.

Most people put on a ton of weight at the beginning because they get bloated as hell. When the bloat weight rate slows down it appears that muscle growth has slowed down.

TwisT
03-28-2011, 04:46 PM
If only we could get our hands on a myostatin inhibitor :thinking:

:dont:

GMO
03-28-2011, 04:49 PM
If only we could get our hands on a myostatin inhibitor :thinking:

:dont:


Start cooking one up at EP, bro! Come on man!!!!!!!:ohyeah:

heavyiron
03-28-2011, 06:02 PM
So in theory you dont would not need to increase dosage to continue seeing gains? Just stay on long enough for your myostatin to fall back to baseline?
Yes, actually this science gives us insight for 3 strategies.

1. Do 8-9 week cycles then PCT

2. Increase dose/compounds before week 8.

3. Stay on.

keith1569
03-28-2011, 11:33 PM
Yes, actually this science gives us insight for 3 strategies.

1. Do 8-9 week cycles then PCT

2. Increase dose/compounds before week 8.

3. Stay on.


Thanks for the info man.

JCBourne
03-29-2011, 12:31 AM
Yes, actually this science gives us insight for 3 strategies.

1. Do 8-9 week cycles then PCT

2. Increase dose/compounds before week 8.

3. Stay on.

Very interesting, I was going to wait until week 8 to up my dose. However I will do before then. Thanks. Should I up the dose again? (15 week cycle)

LightBearer
03-29-2011, 12:47 AM
if im not allowed to post a link to another board, then please delete this, but this post falls in direct line with an article this guy wrote on this board which is also full of great information if anyone is interested
You'll want to read this! (http://forums.steroid.com/showthread.php?402776-You-ll-want-to-read-this)!

JCBourne
03-29-2011, 01:28 AM
I just read the above, very good. So it means I would need to up both my deca and test by week 8? I was thinking uping test by 125mg, and deca by say 50mg.

heavyiron
03-29-2011, 05:42 AM
Very interesting, I was going to wait until week 8 to up my dose. However I will do before then. Thanks. Should I up the dose again? (15 week cycle)
The timing depends on the ester. Usually weeks 7-11 are the critical window for the longer esters but I like adding tren ace or a strong oral as well.

squigader
12-03-2011, 09:41 AM
The timing depends on the ester. Usually weeks 7-11 are the critical window for the longer esters but I like adding tren ace or a strong oral as well.

Any idea on how long for myostatin to return to baseline? I'm thinking about running test e for 7 weeks for a first cycle.

heavyiron
12-03-2011, 10:02 AM
At 20 weeks myostatin is at baseline so you should be gaining with proper nutrition.

Also some guys have a lower myostatin response, ie genetics.


Any idea on how long for myostatin to return to baseline? I'm thinking about running test e for 7 weeks for a first cycle.
I posted that answer in post #20 brother.

squigader
12-03-2011, 11:30 AM
I posted that answer in post #20 brother.

Just read the study in entirety bro, it says that with 20 weeks of straight administration, myostatin went up then came back down by the end of the cycle. Nothing about how fast it returns to baseline for a 7 week cycle (or anything less than 20) :/

OnPoint88
12-03-2011, 11:34 AM
Hmmmm so if we use a minimum amount of test, say 250mg/wk, and stack a bunch of potent anabolics and androgens on top would our myostatin levels be less?

Makes me think of those alleged Arnold cycles without any test.

slownsteady
12-03-2011, 12:17 PM
I think this is what happens to me. my 1st 3months I grow then level off, but I don't increase dose after that, and then I start growing again big time at around 5 months to where my strength and size go beyond where Ive ever been and then it seems to level again at 7-8 months, and then I have just always chose EQ as my cruiser. Sometimes I'll grow using less test ect cause I want it to stretch and I'll be growing more than when using lots more test at the beginning of my cycle. I think? I will say EQ is my favorite thing with test and I'm liking tren E its my 1st time after all these years of aas. This tren E seems to make me harder at the same bodyweight. I hate this myostatin thing.

Dylan_leggs
09-02-2015, 08:20 AM
Would D-Bol work well here?

Dylan_leggs
09-02-2015, 08:26 AM
Thanks for the good stuff!

-SD-
09-02-2015, 10:07 AM
If you are choosing to add another compound at week 8 or so, make sure its stronger than the compounds you are already on. If you are not on tren, that would be ideal to add tren ace at week 8 to push through for a few more weeks or so.