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Onedeep0811
04-23-2012, 07:04 PM
What is the standard TRT protocol for someone who uses the VA? The only insurance I have at this time is the VA. I had my gp check my test levels and they have came back low twice already. This week Im going for my third blood test, and my dr wants to refer me to a specialist (endo) with my results. This week they will test all my hormone levels and not just my test, but from what my gp said after three consecutive low testosterone levels they will place you on TRT.

Ichigo
04-23-2012, 08:48 PM
First The endo will put you on either Androgel or the test patch, if the endo asks which you prefer " injection, gel or patch" get the injection.

Second if you do get the gel or patch, usually the starting dose is 5mg a day then you will be tested again in three or four months...and so forth until they dial you in.

In my case they had me up to 7 grams a day and my levels didn't go past 175, so i was put on the injection. By the way if you want the injection tell them the patch is giving you a severe rash, if the give you the gel tell the same thing. In my case neither the patch nor gel worked.

Third if and when you do get the injection it will be dosed at 200mg/ml twice a month, ask the doc if you can self inject and then do 100mg/ml a week, then tell the doc you were in an emotional roller coaster and decided to do it weekly at 100mg/ml, usually the doc will agree and officially put you on a weekly injection schedule.

From here on out the process starts all over again, getting bloods every 12 to 16 weeks checking your levels and adjusting your dose. Im on 150mg/ml a week and im loving it. However i know i still need a little more.

Oh yeah before i forget make sure you tell em if your getting morning wood or LACK OF morning wood. This will help them to dose you properly:winkfinger:.

Last they will not prescribe HCG or an AI, you can try and ask maybe you'll get lucky but i haven't been.
Hopefully this helps you out, from one vet to another.

Onedeep0811
04-23-2012, 10:01 PM
Yes it does bro thanks for the heads up.

First The endo will put you on either Androgel or the test patch, if the endo asks which you prefer " injection, gel or patch" get the injection.

Second if you do get the gel or patch, usually the starting dose is 5mg a day then you will be tested again in three or four months...and so forth until they dial you in.

In my case they had me up to 7 grams a day and my levels didn't go past 175, so i was put on the injection. By the way if you want the injection tell them the patch is giving you a severe rash, if the give you the gel tell the same thing. In my case neither the patch nor gel worked.

Third if and when you do get the injection it will be dosed at 200mg/ml twice a month, ask the doc if you can self inject and then do 100mg/ml a week, then tell the doc you were in an emotional roller coaster and decided to do it weekly at 100mg/ml, usually the doc will agree and officially put you on a weekly injection schedule.

From here on out the process starts all over again, getting bloods every 12 to 16 weeks checking your levels and adjusting your dose. Im on 150mg/ml a week and im loving it. However i know i still need a little more.

Oh yeah before i forget make sure you tell em if your getting morning wood or LACK OF morning wood. This will help them to dose you properly:winkfinger:.

Last they will not prescribe HCG or an AI, you can try and ask maybe you'll get lucky but i haven't been.
Hopefully this helps you out, from one vet to another.

BFHammer
04-23-2012, 10:06 PM
Buggers always told me the gel wasn't available through the VA nor will they increase my dosage above 100/w. They try and tell me they are shooting for 4-600, or basically a 70 year old man's test level. So it's off to the private clinic I go which just pisses me off since it's their damn anthrax vaccination that sent me hypogonadic.

Ichigo
04-23-2012, 11:08 PM
Buggers always told me the gel wasn't available through the VA nor will they increase my dosage above 100/w. They try and tell me they are shooting for 4-600, or basically a 70 year old man's test level. So it's off to the private clinic I go which just pisses me off since it's their damn anthrax vaccination that sent me hypogonadic.

Thats messed up they told you that. At 100/w i was only able to get to 245, my doc wants me at minimum 375. :hmmm:. Thats why i blast in between appointments..hahahaha

Onedeep0811
04-24-2012, 07:15 AM
I plan to run hcg once I get on TRT bc I plan to have more kids in the future. Is the standard protocol for hcg 250ius x2 a week 2 days before your testosterone injection?

malfeasance
05-10-2012, 08:17 AM
They try and tell me they are shooting for 4-600, or basically a 70 year old man's test level.
Not many 70 year olds are at 600. Men in their twenties are at 500-700. See here.
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/lab-testing/160679-average-test-24yr-old-male.html

Onedeep0811
05-11-2012, 05:54 PM
I saw the endo today after my test levels came back low three times. And he wants to send me for another damn blood test, and send me for a MRI to check my pituitary gland before starting treatment. Wtf

Ichigo
05-11-2012, 07:54 PM
I saw the endo today after my test levels came back low three times. And he wants to send me for another damn blood test, and send me for a MRI to check my pituitary gland before starting treatment. Wtf

Ask for another Endo im pretty sure they usually have two, cuz that dude is complicating a simple process. Unless of course he found something and he is not telling you.

SuperLift
05-12-2012, 06:53 AM
A friend of mine went to the VA and they told him that they wont cover testosterone...

Onedeep0811
05-12-2012, 07:03 AM
Ask for another Endo im pretty sure they usually have two, cuz that dude is complicating a simple process. Unless of course he found something and he is not telling you.
He didn't find anything he wants to eliminate everything else first he said.

Ichigo
05-12-2012, 07:48 AM
Then he's a douche! He's probably afraid to prescribe test since it's so evil, and it will turn you into a baby eating monster.

BFHammer
05-12-2012, 12:53 PM
Not many 70 year olds are at 600. Men in their twenties are at 500-700. See here.
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/lab-testing/160679-average-test-24yr-old-male.html

Incorrect all men will vary on test levels, and one man is fine at 600 while the other could need 1000 to feel right. Here is a study of 67 year old men who are losing skeletal muscle and bones at 480 Testosterone administration to elderly men increases skeletal muscle strength and protein synthesis (http://ajpendo.physiology.org/content/269/5/E820.short)

BFHammer
05-12-2012, 12:55 PM
I saw the endo today after my test levels came back low three times. And he wants to send me for another damn blood test, and send me for a MRI to check my pituitary gland before starting treatment. Wtf
That isn't a bad thing. My first blood tests years ago indicated a 92% chance of a pituitary tumor, further blood tests and a MRI showed I'm just a mutant or something, no tumor.

BFHammer
05-12-2012, 01:18 PM
My free test with TRT is only at .7, basically nonexistent at the 100/w dosage as well that puts me in the range the VA tries to say is the target. Then there is the inverse relationship to test and insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome which I also have. Considering the results of low testosterone put you at 80% higher risk of every one of the top 10 killers vs the minimal sides of higher levels it should be a no brainer to run it at 1200 as a trt protocol.

charley
05-12-2012, 01:23 PM
I saw the endo today after my test levels came back low three times. And he wants to send me for another damn blood test, and send me for a MRI to check my pituitary gland before starting treatment. Wtf

This is why I have no faith in doctors, control freaks is what they are......my advice is go off the 'reservation' get your own test online.....most doctors don't understand 'hrt or trt' ...they are reading the same reference books we all can read.....

BFHammer
05-12-2012, 01:30 PM
This is why I have no faith in doctors, control freaks is what they are......my advice is go off the 'reservation' get your own test online.....most doctors don't understand 'hrt or trt' ...they are reading the same reference books we all can read.....

I had to, they weren't even testing anything other than test, no E2, no free test, nothing. It's rediculous. So I found a pretty kick ass clinic online and I feel 100% more alive at 300/w. I can actually function again.

charley
05-12-2012, 02:15 PM
^^^^^^^^^^good for you BF

Onedeep0811
05-12-2012, 07:23 PM
My free test with TRT is only at .7, basically nonexistent at the 100/w dosage as well that puts me in the range the VA tries to say is the target. Then there is the inverse relationship to test and insulin resistance and metabolic syndrome which I also have. Considering the results of low testosterone put you at 80% higher risk of every one of the top 10 killers vs the minimal sides of higher levels it should be a no brainer to run it at 1200 as a trt protocol.

Yes the VA endo told me he wanted to get me in normal ranges and that was 350-400 according to him. I told him that was super low considering 350 is barely making it in the normal range. He says the ranges are different everywhere and at the VA 175 and up is a normal range. Super crazy hes also telling me once I start TRT I will never be able to have kids again? Can someone chime in on this bc I believed if I used hcg on my own I would still be g2g. Might even need some HMG one day, but a definite no?

BP2000
05-12-2012, 07:30 PM
it's their damn anthrax vaccination that sent me hypogonadic.

how do you know this specifically lowered your test levels?

I had that same vaccine.

BP2000
05-12-2012, 07:36 PM
I saw the endo today after my test levels came back low three times. And he wants to send me for another damn blood test, and send me for a MRI to check my pituitary gland before starting treatment. Wtf

this is a standard protocol in TRT. You first have to find out WHY your low in test level's. The MRI is to rule out pituitary tumor. Otherwise you are primary - meaning your testes do not produce enough test anymore.

The VA is obviously conservative with their dosing. But I would say 90% of guys will test top third of range with 100/wk. So if you can get that you will be ok. And if you take HCG on your own kids should not be out of the question. Some guys have had kids on cycle w/ no HCG.

Onedeep0811
05-12-2012, 07:57 PM
this is a standard protocol in TRT. You first have to find out WHY your low in test level's. The MRI is to rule out pituitary tumor. Otherwise you are primary - meaning your testes do not produce enough test anymore.

The VA is obviously conservative with their dosing. But I would say 90% of guys will test top third of range with 100/wk. So if you can get that you will be ok. And if you take HCG on your own kids should not be out of the question. Some guys have had kids on cycle w/ no HCG.

Im one of those guys that have had kids on cycle w/ no hcg lol. I have a beautiful 8 month year old daughter, which I believe I wouldnt of conceived if it was for the extra testosterone in my system.

Riles
05-12-2012, 09:38 PM
since it's their damn anthrax vaccination that sent me hypogonadic.


how do you know this specifically lowered your test levels?

I had that same vaccine.


I am interested in this also as I was forced to take the vaccine and told not to donate blood as a civilian for 10years or more

BFHammer
05-12-2012, 09:47 PM
how do you know this specifically lowered your test levels?

I had that same vaccine.


http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/testosterone-replacement-therapy/163243-anthrax-vaccine-hypogonadism.html#post2827371

I joined the Navy at 145 lbs, after boot and Aircrew school I was a rock hard 180 and stayed at that weight until Desert Storm. I went from 180 to 250 in 6 months no matter how little I ate and in the desert heat. Vertigo for a year, so bad at times I couldn't move without someone to hang onto. They ran a bunch of tests even had to piss in a jug for 3 days. They could never explain it.

Also read the book Vaccine A, it details the use of military to test vaccination since the 50's. We are the only one's it's still legal to test things on, less rights than prisoners.

Onedeep0811
05-12-2012, 11:49 PM
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/testosterone-replacement-therapy/163243-anthrax-vaccine-hypogonadism.html#post2827371

I joined the Navy at 145 lbs, after boot and Aircrew school I was a rock hard 180 and stayed at that weight until Desert Storm. I went from 180 to 250 in 6 months no matter how little I ate and in the desert heat. Vertigo for a year, so bad at times I couldn't move without someone to hang onto. They ran a bunch of tests even had to piss in a jug for 3 days. They could never explain it.

Also read the book Vaccine A, it details the use of military to test vaccination since the 50's. We are the only one's it's still legal to test things on, less rights than prisoners.

Wow this is intense Uncle sam is always sticking it to us.

BP2000
05-13-2012, 08:30 AM
I did the Anthrax vaccine in 2004 so maybe they changed the receipe.

Onedeep0811
05-13-2012, 09:08 AM
I did the Anthrax vaccine in 2004 so maybe they changed the receipe.

I received it in 2007 and im pretty sure it was the same as the one you received.

BFHammer
05-13-2012, 03:24 PM
I had the 1990 version. It wasn't approved by the FDA until 2005 after some changes. They still never tested its safety adequately. And had the army who's stands to make billions for Thier budget testing it

Gfunk
05-16-2012, 10:38 AM
I think the VA and military docs have no idea what they are doing.. My friend went to see a army doc endo and he told him that he's too young for trt his natural lvls will recover in no time.. His lvls were in thelow 300 and he was 27yrs old..

Onedeep0811
05-16-2012, 01:42 PM
I think the VA and military docs have no idea what they are doing.. My friend went to see a army doc endo and he told him that he's too young for trt his natural lvls will recover in no time.. His lvls were in thelow 300 and he was 27yrs old..

Yes the VA doesn't know what they are talking about. The endo I saw told me once I started TRT I would never be able to have kids again. Probably bc his uneducated ass doesn't know about hcg. At this point I might give up on the VA and just find a clinic.

Gfunk
05-16-2012, 03:33 PM
Yes the VA doesn't know what they are talking about. The endo I saw told me once I started TRT I would never be able to have kids again. Probably bc his uneducated ass doesn't know about hcg. At this point I might give up on the VA and just find a clinic.
Yup the VA is slow on everything!! Only thing good I got out of the VA was my 911 gi bill..

Onedeep0811
05-16-2012, 07:47 PM
Yup the VA is slow on everything!! Only thing good I got out of the VA was my 911 gi bill..

Fuck Im stuck with the hazlewood act, but those were some of the best four years of my live bro. Semper Fi to all my devildogs

BFHammer
05-16-2012, 11:11 PM
The VA has been great for my sleep apnea and stuff, just on the trt they are being ridiculous. And it's kind of annoying that the change out your doctors every 2 years. Although my new one is the first American doc I've had in 20 years as a primary. I kept getting 120 lb Asian docs who's kept trying to talk me into going vegan. One wanted me to eat nothing but beans and squash for every meal.

Onedeep0811
05-17-2012, 09:08 AM
My primary care physician & endo are both from the middle east. I'd take an Asian over them any day.

The VA has been great for my sleep apnea and stuff, just on the trt they are being ridiculous. And it's kind of annoying that the change out your doctors every 2 years. Although my new one is the first American doc I've had in 20 years as a primary. I kept getting 120 lb Asian docs who's kept trying to talk me into going vegan. One wanted me to eat nothing but beans and squash for every meal.