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dream
05-27-2012, 09:41 AM
I need help understanding the concept of hair loss for TRT, if you replace your natural test with a TRT dose that puts you in a range normal for your age, then why do you loose hair a lot more quickly then if you naturally produced the same level of test?

I am also 20 and want to get to a normal range of 700 to 900ng/dl. Would i need to be prescribed a higher dose then 100mg to achieve this?
Thanks

BP2000
05-27-2012, 10:15 AM
because if you naturally produce 500ng/dl and you are losing hair and you increase your test to let's say 800ng/dl you have more test in your system to be converted via 5ar to DHT. DHT is what causes your hair to thin. So your hair will fall out faster.

Anyway what are your test levels? BTW 700-900 is not normal. Everyone has different levels. 500-900 is normal for a healthy young male.

dream
05-27-2012, 10:49 AM
518.76ng/dl, I know this is not clinically low but i have reached the point were i sacrifice everything based on the gym to achieve results that won't show that i decided to get a testosterone test done. I count calories, macros and have a great diet, ie red meat, complex carbs veg and supp great etc. Have tried many different forms of training, i can get stronger but not bigger

dream
05-27-2012, 10:53 AM
because if you naturally produce 500ng/dl and you are losing hair and you increase your test to let's say 800ng/dl you have more test in your system to be converted via 5ar to DHT. DHT is what causes your hair to thin. So your hair will fall out faster.



From what i have read most people who have the gene to go bald start noticing changes within a year of TRT, so I am not sure injecting yourself with synthetic testosterone vastly increases the rate due to the fact it is synthetic rather then natural produced test, if you understand what i mean?

BP2000
05-27-2012, 11:55 AM
From what i have read most people who have the gene to go bald start noticing changes within a year of TRT, so I am not sure injecting yourself with synthetic testosterone vastly increases the rate due to the fact it is synthetic rather then natural produced test, if you understand what i mean?

Nah mate synthetic test is recognized the same in the body. You have normal level's of testosterone. Post up your diet that you have been eating along with your macros.

dream
05-27-2012, 12:23 PM
Oatmeal+eggs
salmon+brown rice+broccoli
steak+yams+spinach
Banana
Post workout shake
stake+yams +kale
Cottage cheese+extra virgin olive oil

2 grams of carbs per pound of body weight
1.2-1.5 grams of protein per pound of body weight
0.4-0.5 grams of fat per pound of body weight

I eat 600-800 cals above my maintenance depending on what day it is

dream
05-27-2012, 01:24 PM
Nah mate synthetic test is recognized the same in the body. You have normal level's of testosterone

You also say i have normal levels, but are my levels not equivalent to a 40 year old males?

dirtbiker666
05-27-2012, 01:33 PM
I was always impressed with Dorian Yates a Jay cutlers hair with the amount of stuff they run.

dream
05-27-2012, 02:07 PM
I was always impressed with Dorian Yates a Jay cutlers hair with the amount of stuff they run.

yeah well lucky for them there were never genetically meant to go bald in the first place

rocker44
05-27-2012, 03:45 PM
518.76ng/dl, I know this is not clinically low but i have reached the point were i sacrifice everything based on the gym to achieve results that won't show that i decided to get a testosterone test done. I count calories, macros and have a great diet, ie red meat, complex carbs veg and supp great etc. Have tried many different forms of training, i can get stronger but not bigger

as far as trt and hairloss go BP is right about the dht. you also have to realize that if your loosing your hair due to dht there is a good chance you where going to loose your hair anyways. try taking 1.25 proscar ed it worked wonders for me. make sure you read up on the sides it may cause

rocker44
05-27-2012, 03:53 PM
You also say i have normal levels, but are my levels not equivalent to a 40 year old males?
your levels seem a bit low for your age. i still think you can make a go at it with out the test though. post in the diet and workout sections and see what some of those guys tell ya

dream
05-27-2012, 03:55 PM
as far as trt and hairloss go BP is right about the dht. you also have to realize that if your loosing your hair due to dht there is a good chance you where going to loose your hair anyways. try taking 1.25 proscar ed it worked wonders for me. make sure you read up on the sides it may cause

did you notice less gains and did you feel generally more lethargic when on proscar, have heard dht is still an important hormone... another problem is I have gyno from puberty so propecia will increase estrogen, especially if i take HCG along with it, would it be recommended to have 0.25 grams of arimdex everyday?

dream
05-27-2012, 03:57 PM
your levels seem a bit low for your age. i still think you can make a go at it with out the test though. post in the diet and workout sections and see what some of those guys tell ya

Thats the problem I have been trying to have a go at it for 3 years, it has not worked out for me, my diet is pretty darn good and have used welll known programs such as 5x5 along with countless other without success...

rocker44
05-27-2012, 04:44 PM
did you notice less gains and did you feel generally more lethargic when on proscar, have heard dht is still an important hormone... another problem is I have gyno from puberty so propecia will increase estrogen, especially if i take HCG along with it, would it be recommended to have 0.25 grams of arimdex everyday?

i dont think we are on the same page here lol. im on trt so i feel some what normal, not to gain size or strength, i leave that for cycling

as far as dht goes it might lessen some of your gains but you have to weigh your options, gain 10lbs and still have your hair line or gain 15lbs and have no hair

if you are predisposed to gyno i would take some kind of ai, adex .25 eod or .5 eod

i hope you have looked into all of the long term side effects or trt befor you decide to do it. good luck

brundel
05-27-2012, 05:44 PM
Im not even going to begin scolding you although I should.


I will offer a solution however, Formeron will reduce estrogen and increase natural test.
Formeron is also a 5-ar inhibitor so itll reduce DHT and therefore DHT side effects.

dream
05-28-2012, 04:23 AM
Im not even going to begin scolding you although I should.


I will offer a solution however, Formeron will reduce estrogen and increase natural test.
Formeron is also a 5-ar inhibitor so itll reduce DHT and therefore DHT side effects.

If i have a level of a 40 year old man, and have been busting my ass and sacrificng everything for 3 years, then what wrong with going on trt to be an even playing field?

gamma
05-28-2012, 08:10 AM
IF ya knew now what we will know then you wouldn't.....This is just all wrong ^

dream
05-28-2012, 08:44 AM
IF ya knew now what we will know then you wouldn't.....This is just all wrong ^

can you elaborate please?

BP2000
05-28-2012, 10:44 AM
can you elaborate please?

You are being foolish. Your levels are not of a 40 yo man. My natural test levels are less than yours and I get by fine.

I could write you a book on why your proposal (getting on TRT at 20yo) is a horrible idea. TRT are only for those who NEED it. Test levels that are clinically low (like below 300) and for guys who has something wrong with them. You do not fit in any of these categories.

You want to get on TRT because of vanity. You want to gain an extra 15 lbs. or whatever. That is NOT a legit reason for TRT. Plus you are only 20 yo and your priority's change in life. When your 40 you won't give two shit's about 15lbs. Your hormones are upregulating still and it is hard to gain solid weight at your age unless you eat like a horse. Trust me when your 25+ you will easily gain any weight you want when your hormones are not upregulating anymore. You are no different from the average male. It all happened to us. You just don't understand that because you are still only 20 yo.

Bieberhole69
05-28-2012, 12:48 PM
If i have a level of a 40 year old man, and have been busting my ass and sacrificng everything for 3 years, then what wrong with going on trt to be an even playing field?

I'm willing to bet you haven't "busted your ass" and "sacrificed everything" for 3 years. Don't get pissed, but anybody, regardless of genetics can see insane gains naturally at 20 if they truly gave it all they had for 3 years straight. You don't need trt, but I don't really give a fuck and I'm not sure why I'm even typing this. Going to the gym, why the fuck have I been on the computer this long today.

*Also, once you start with just a little bit of test it leads to things like tren which will make you want to kill people like you.

Bieberhole69
05-28-2012, 01:52 PM
I'm sorry for yelling.

dream
05-28-2012, 02:30 PM
I'm willing to bet you haven't "busted your ass" and "sacrificed everything" for 3 years. Don't get pissed, but anybody, regardless of genetics can see insane gains naturally at 20 if they truly gave it all they had for 3 years straight. You don't need trt, but I don't really give a fuck and I'm not sure why I'm even typing this. Going to the gym, why the fuck have I been on the computer this long today.

*Also, once you start with just a little bit of test it leads to things like tren which will make you want to kill people like you.

Well sorry to say this but fuck you you fucking cunt, you dont know how much i sacrificed. Do you know whats its like to not get laid in 3 years because you don't leave your house because you want to make sure you eat the right foods at the right time, get 7 to 8 hours sleep, to not drink, to not even fucking socialise at all you fucking dickhead, that includes my own birthday, go fuck yourself you small cocked little prick. Don't tell me I haven't busted my ass you little dick

dream
05-28-2012, 02:32 PM
I'm sorry for yelling.

well now i had to say what i needed to say, i'm sorry for yelling. Look I have tried as hard as i could and could of not sacrificed anymore. Honestly there is nothing more i can do...

BP2000
05-29-2012, 05:45 PM
It's all relative bro. It took me 10 year's to acheive my goals. You don't put on muscle overnight. It's a lifestyle no need to rush it. It will eventually come in due time. You have nothing but time anyway if you plan to workout for the rest of your life.

And don't piss away your life in the gym. Life is all about balance. When your 20 your suppose to be socializing with the opposite sex. You are only young once

dream
05-31-2012, 09:02 AM
And don't piss away your life in the gym. Life is all about balance. When your 20 your suppose to be socializing with the opposite sex. You are only young once

But it means so much to me, this is sad to say but i can see myself dieing a lonely old man, its all I want to do

malfeasance
05-31-2012, 09:33 AM
Oatmeal+eggs - How much oatmeal? How many eggs?
salmon+brown rice+broccoli - How much salmon? You eat salmon every day? You must make a lot of money for a 20 year old. How much rice?
steak+yams+spinach - What cut of steak and how much? You eat steak every day in addition to eating salmon every day? Wow! What do you do for a living? How much yams?
Banana - yawn.
Post workout shake -Eh, ok. What kind?
stake+yams +kale - You eat steak twice every day? What size? More yams?
Cottage cheese+extra virgin olive oil - How much cottage cheese?

Now, tell the truth, once you answer the questions above, is this what you eat each and every day, no variation?

malfeasance
05-31-2012, 09:34 AM
Squats - tell us about your squats. Parralel? How often? What weight, reps, and sets?

malfeasance
05-31-2012, 09:36 AM
By the way, for what it is worth, I was skinny when I was 20, in spite of lifting hard for half a dozen years, and yet, in a few more years, I was over 200 pounds, all natural. Part of it was having to cut back on my workload. I was trying to do all those workouts in the magazines. Cutting way back on my sets and reps helped out a lot.

I would have posted like you, about how I could not gain any weight.

You do not need TRT.

You might just need a few years and better coaching (which on diet and workout, you can get in two separate sections right here on this web site, for free!).

dream
05-31-2012, 12:35 PM
Oatmeal+eggs - How much oatmeal? How many eggs?
salmon+brown rice+broccoli - How much salmon? You eat salmon every day? You must make a lot of money for a 20 year old. How much rice?
steak+yams+spinach - What cut of steak and how much? You eat steak every day in addition to eating salmon every day? Wow! What do you do for a living? How much yams?
Banana - yawn.
Post workout shake -Eh, ok. What kind?
stake+yams +kale - You eat steak twice every day? What size? More yams?
Cottage cheese+extra virgin olive oil - How much cottage cheese?

Now, tell the truth, once you answer the questions above, is this what you eat each and every day, no variation?

100 grams of oats, 3 eggs
200 grams of salmon, 100 grams of rice or so sometimes 80 grams
the steak is actually mince meat 10%fat 150 grams, 250 grams of yams
hydro whey and dextrose
once again 10%mince meat, 250 grams of yams
300 grams of cottage cheese, 1 tablespoon of olive oil

My folks give the money for food, im lucky

dream
05-31-2012, 12:36 PM
Squats - tell us about your squats. Parralel? How often? What weight, reps, and sets?
ass to grass boy

dream
05-31-2012, 12:37 PM
By the way, for what it is worth, I was skinny when I was 20, in spite of lifting hard for half a dozen years, and yet, in a few more years, I was over 200 pounds, all natural. Part of it was having to cut back on my workload. I was trying to do all those workouts in the magazines. Cutting way back on my sets and reps helped out a lot.

I would have posted like you, about how I could not gain any weight.

You do not need TRT.

You might just need a few years and better coaching (which on diet and workout, you can get in two separate sections right here on this web site, for free!).
i do gain weight i manage my diet to gain a steady 1.5 to max 2 pound a week, i just never get muscle just fat but i do get stronger

charley
06-02-2012, 03:52 PM
hair today........gone tomorrow ....................

dream
06-04-2012, 01:43 PM
if i get my baseline DHT levels checked out, could i take a lower then normal dose of propecia if i go on TRT to manipulate my levels to replicate my baseline levels, i was thinking 0.5mg? If i get my DHT levels to my baseline levels should i theoretically bald at the rate i was meant to? Or due to the increased total or free test levels the higher androgenic effect will make me go balder quicker even at a similar baseline DHT level

Tysdon
06-11-2012, 11:31 AM
i do gain weight i manage my diet to gain a steady 1.5 to max 2 pound a week, i just never get muscle just fat but i do get stronger

In other words your diet isn't actually perfect. You eat like shit and are a fat bastard and blame your "genetics". Typical. I recommend a gram of Test prop and Tren A every week.

dream
06-12-2012, 07:07 AM
In other words your diet isn't actually perfect. You eat like shit and are a fat bastard and blame your "genetics". Typical. I recommend a gram of Test prop and Tren A every week.

tbh i only gain 2 pounds a week if i was not disciplined which does not happen very often. Secondly did you even see my diet? how on earth can you say it is shit, better then most people's. Thirdly even if my diet is shit (which it is not) i was still training with good programs, getting stronger and putting weight on, therefore i should still be able to gain muscle since i was eating enough, but that does not happen, jheez why can't people like you, use your brain before you make a comment that makes no sense

frenchwr
08-20-2014, 03:02 PM
Well sorry to say this but fuck you you fucking cunt, you dont know how much i sacrificed. Do you know whats its like to not get laid in 3 years because you don't leave your house because you want to make sure you eat the right foods at the right time, get 7 to 8 hours sleep, to not drink, to not even fucking socialise at all you fucking dickhead, that includes my own birthday, go fuck yourself you small cocked little prick. Don't tell me I haven't busted my ass you little dick


I signed up on this forum just to LMAO @ this epic post

Dcrazy
09-04-2015, 12:27 AM
i dont think we are on the same page here lol. im on trt so i feel some what normal, not to gain size or strength, i leave that for cycling

as far as dht goes it might lessen some of your gains but you have to weigh your options, gain 10lbs and still have your hair line or gain 15lbs and have no hair

if you are predisposed to gyno i would take some kind of ai, adex .25 eod or .5 eod

i hope you have looked into all of the long term side effects or trt befor you decide to do it. good luck

Not to bump an old thread, but I came across this thread. Unlike the OP who was 20, now probably 23 lol. However, I am on trt. I have been on TRT for 4 years. In the last 3 months I have noticed significant changes.....to my hair. I am growing hair on my body at an accelerated rate. I also noticed in the past two weeks some thinning in my hair( on my head ) in a particular area. What is weird is I was taking a brand of test for 3 years and 9 months, the pharmacy switched brands 3 months ago, and just happens to coincide with my problems. This new test also has the same inactive ingredients as my brand I used for over 3 years+ in the past.

I was on 200mg of test EOW( every other week ) for 3 years. Then I switched to 150mg a week for 9 months.....then I started this new brand at the same 150mg dose a week, but started growing hair in abnormal places. Does anyone know what is going on?

I can tell you that I just started checking my DHT( yes noone ever did ). Also, I have checked my estrogen or E2 levels, and on about 50% of my blood work they are always high. So I checked my DHT....all these levels are at troph- 8 days out of injection- I am nervous about sides, so I was reluctant to inject a day.

My CBC Panel was fine( always has been ). CBC panels check RBCs and hemoglobin. However my test levels:

My Test Total :
Scale: 300- 1080
582

Free Test
Scale:47-244
133

DHT:
Scale 106-719
602

Now on this Lab I only injected 120mg that week, and it was 8 days out of shot. I also tested @ 135mg for another test which I should get this week. What propelled me to get a test was the HAIR on BODY and Thinning on spot on HEAD. However, I noticed a test I took, an endo looked at it- as I was trying to get an Anti-Estrogen, which never happened. However, my free test at troph on her test, when taking 150 was the highest I ever seen it....548 Free test! My test total for that was 818. So I then suspected DHT...was I wrong? Then I took my own test, and mt TT( test total ) at peak was beyond 1500, only time I have ever seen that. So my questions is what is going on? Also, isn't this weird 4 years later? I mean most sides usually would happen a few weeks or months in. To top it off, this coincides with the brand change.....but same dose as last 9 months. Also, my acne was coming in abnormal places( the elbow ). Btw I am 30, was 26 when started. I also have thick hair on my head- and I want it to stay that way. My father didn't even start to thin a little till about 44-45 years old. My mother, full thick hair.Again, I am sorry to bump this thread, but this is driving me nuts ...I mean I am looking at stopping TRT all the way to Propecia...to Anti-E's...I have already cut dose. Any help would be appreciated. To note: The only thing I have done physically different was cut 20lbs in 16 weeks- intentionally for summer. I am 5ft.8 now @ 186. Was 204-207.

Thanks

TonyMack
09-07-2015, 09:32 AM
Dude, why didn't you start a new thread?

First of all, test is test. There may be something on the dosage or your injection schedule, but all things being equal, test is test. Having less body fat should help you have a lower E2, but your diet could be allowing more conversion to DHT. Especially if you are running low fiber diet and restricting calories.

For hair loss, serum DHT and DHT in the scalp are two different things. I have been on test (TRT & Blasting) for over 5 years and at 39 I still have all my hair, and my dad and both my grandfathers are/were bald. I thought for sure I would be too.

I can attribute retaining my hair to two things: 1) zinc pyrithione shampoo - zinc blocks DHT in the skin, and 2) a diet that includes bile binding vegetables - this detoxifies the liver and allows liver to balance hormones more effectively.

Keeping my system clean and liver healthy I am able to run 180 mgs a week of test and have E2 under 35 and keep DHT low, without aromatase inhibitors or 5ar inhibitors. On blasts I use anastrozole.

You can drive yourself crazy getting all technical, but it always comes back to overall health. Take a good multivitamin (I prefer Life Extensions Mix 490), fish oil (I prefer organic whole salmon oil), Vitamin D, and get everything else you need from your diet. Eat a ton of bile binding vegetables (I prefer kale pulp from juicer). Drink a lot of water.

And the last piece of advice I have for you (and I don't mean to be a dick), but don't bump 3 year old threads. Don't be that guy.

CDMSurfer
01-05-2016, 01:04 AM
I've only heard of hair loss happening from testosterone creams (which causes the T to aromotize into DHT). Stick to injections and you should be fine.