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View Full Version : Is 317ng/dl too low to build muscle?



detox_d
07-13-2012, 04:33 AM
30 yrs old, this blood test was taken last sept a day before my first cycle ever. Bloods show I came back to my low levels after PCT. I've had a very hard time growing in my life, my lifts never go up and when I eat more I don't get stronger, I just get fatter. Could it be my training, or is 317ng/dl too low to really do much? I know my diet and training could be a little better but I've been lifting on and off for 17 years and I give up after 6 months each time I start because I see no results. thanks in advance guys

detox_d
07-13-2012, 04:36 AM
forgot to mention I saw a urologist and he did a full exam and found nothing. I went over the blood test I had done myself and he said "yeah 317 is a little below avg, but within range. you're fine." I read in a study avg for age 19-40 is ~725ng/dl, so I'm over 2.5 std deviations below that. how can he say I'm fine? frusterating. I feel like a beta male all the time as well. low libido etc, he said I just need to see a psychologist. but I don't have depression or anything, I just always do what other people say like a yes man.

ebn2002
07-13-2012, 07:45 AM
I've been lifting on and off for 17 years and I give up after 6 months each time I start because I see no results.

That's too bad because the gains start to really kick in after 6 months. When you first start lifting, you're lifting light ass weight for the first few months, hopefully adding weight each week. When you start to get to ~1.5x bodyweight on compund lifts and 2x on squat you will see big results, but it takes a while to get to those numbers. that's my experience anyway, try sticking with it for a while. Or just use gears.

Mkpaint
07-14-2012, 04:39 AM
my test was 380 when i started working out i've lost 100lbs and now added 20lbs of muscle back in a year and half so its possible with low test and my diet isn't perfect its not bad either. talked with my wife's endo doc one day at her appt. and he said he likes the 700-800 range and if mine was even as low as 400 he would give me test to bring it up. 10 weeks ago i started taking test for the first time in my life i'm 43. started at 250mg per week for 4 weeks and make a big difference in the way i feel energy, sex drive, even my mood improved i handle stress much better now without blowing up as easy. the last 6 weeks i bumped it up to 500mg per week and going to run this a total of 12 weeks then go back to 250 and get blood work done. i will never go off test the difference is to much. i would find a good doc. i had a urologist tell me the same thing that 350-500 was normal in there mind, but as far as the gym is concerned you need to man up get in there and work hard and get your diet in check you can get results test is not a magic potion it will help but it will not overcome a week mind and lack of hard work. good luck

chesty4
07-14-2012, 04:22 PM
Don't give up. Stick with it. It won't happen overnight.

My test level was diagnosed at 170ng/dl. Yes, 170! I was busting my ass in the gym (and still do) but my gains were wicked slow. There were times it was discouraging, but it actully motivated me even more. I had to focus on proper nutrition and simple compound movements to see even minor results. At least I was making gains.
It's taken me over a year of trt to get my levels back to the minimum 300 range, but I've been excited about the results. I'm 50 yrs old and in better shape than most 20 yr olds in the gym.

Never quit and best of luck.

squigader
07-15-2012, 08:43 AM
I'll repost what I posted for someone else I helped in a similar situation:

What are the other numbers given on your blood test? Particularly LH, FSH and estrogen/estradiol? Just something else to note - time of day (or even having a bad day or not enough sleep) can drastically affect your results, so a retest in different circumstances would be warranted if you're really worried.

Take a look at some of the food suggestions below. I hope you're eating plenty of these. Diet plays a large role in natural testosterone. Brassica vegetables (the ones everyone hates; e.g. broccoli, cauliflower, cabbage, brussel sprouts, turnips) have been shown in studies to reduce the amount of testosterone converted to estrogen (giving you a natural testosterone boost).
Gynecomastia Diet-14 Veggies That Double Your Testosterone level ? Understanding Gynecomastia (http://gynecomastia.wordpress.com/2007/06/28/gynecomastia-diet-14-veggies-that-double-your-testosterone-level/)
The top 10 testosterone boosting foods! ~ Body By BB2K (http://bb2k.blogspot.co.uk/2011/01/top-10-testosterone-boosting-foods.html)
Sauerkraut (good on the side with meats, hot dogs, or in a beef sandwich for lunch) and broccoli and cabbage are easy to work in the diet.
Reduce your intake of simple sugars and carbs. No more candy or sweets, switch to brown bread. A diet high in simple sugars and carbs isn't good for your testosterone levels. Saturated fat is good to an extent for your testosterone. Buy cuts of beef (not mince, they put all sorts of shit in that) with a little bit of fat on them (these cuts tend to be cheaper anyway!), and start eating thighs and drumsticks instead of breasts sometimes.

Of course, lifting weights also increases your testosterone. You should be in the gym 3x a week. Cut back on the :jerkit:, no more than 3x a week (sex is ok).

One thing I have noted from working up North is the lack of sunlight (the other guy I helped was from England, you seem to be in Canada, so similar situation). Being outdoors with unfiltered sunlight hitting your skin = vitamin D production. Testosterone production is DIRECTLY linked to vitamin D (read all about it here: https://www.google.com/search?q=vitamin+D&sugexp=chrome,mod=0&sourceid=chrome&ie=UTF-8#hl=en&gs_nf=1&tok=Ap6Ie1mx0BaAO6My0QCDig&pq=vitamin%20d&cp=15&gs_id=1a&xhr=t&q=vitamin%20D%20testosterone&pf=p&sclient=psy-ab&oq=vitamin+D+testo&gs_l=&pbx=1&fp=1&biw=1366&bih=653&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.r_qf.,cf.osb&cad=b&sei=xuQCULbLGdGZhQetxtyXCA ). Vitamin D deficiency affects a very large part of the human population who live in Northern latitudes. Buy yourself a large pack of vitamin D3 vitamins (they're EXTREMELY cheap and I believe that creatine and Vitamin D are the only supplements WORTH buying. You can get several hundred D3 vitamins for under $7) and take 2000iu per day.

I'm sure you will see a turnaround in 1 month following this advice. Message me in a month and let me know how well it worked out for you. Or ask away if you have any questions.

detox_d
07-24-2012, 10:07 AM
Don't give up. Stick with it. It won't happen overnight. My test level was diagnosed at 170ng/dl. Yes, 170! I was busting my ass in the gym (and still do) but my gains were wicked slow. There were times it was discouraging, but it actully motivated me even more. I had to focus on proper nutrition and simple compound movements to see even minor results. At least I was making gains. It's taken me over a year of trt to get my levels back to the minimum 300 range, but I've been excited about the results. I'm 50 yrs old and in better shape than most 20 yr olds in the gym. Never quit and best of luck. Sounds just like my situation. I study and study and think everything is fine tuned but I'm lucky to make any gains at the gym. About the only thing I can do is lose BF. I can bulk up to 15-17% then cut down to 10% fairly easily. But I lose all my gains (but get veiny abs and arms). Worst part is I go on other forums and read how people started 3 months ago (naturally) and they've already made more progress than me. The only gains I've ever seen that were significant was the first month of my first cycle (I've done 2). I gained 30lbs in 1 month, eating 4000-5000 calories per day. I went from 177 to 210. All my lifts went up about 50%, versus almost no gains for the previous 3 years. The 3 other months I was on, I didn't see hardly any gains, as I cut my calories back to about 2500 (to avoid the BF I gained in that first month).

detox_d
07-24-2012, 10:15 AM
my test was 380 when i started working out i've lost 100lbs and now added 20lbs of muscle back in a year and half so its possible with low test and my diet isn't perfect its not bad either. talked with my wife's endo doc one day at her appt. and he said he likes the 700-800 range and if mine was even as low as 400 he would give me test to bring it up. 10 weeks ago i started taking test for the first time in my life i'm 43. started at 250mg per week for 4 weeks and make a big difference in the way i feel energy, sex drive, even my mood improved i handle stress much better now without blowing up as easy. the last 6 weeks i bumped it up to 500mg per week and going to run this a total of 12 weeks then go back to 250 and get blood work done. i will never go off test the difference is to much. i would find a good doc. i had a urologist tell me the same thing that 350-500 was normal in there mind, but as far as the gym is concerned you need to man up get in there and work hard and get your diet in check you can get results test is not a magic potion it will help but it will not overcome a week mind and lack of hard work. good luck I know what you mean about not going off. I was thinking of doing that at the end of my 2nd cycle but I got my hematocrit back and it was pretty high so I had to come off. I felt like a king after feeling low self esteem all my life. No being nervous anymore (even though my blood pressure was higher).
That's too bad because the gains start to really kick in after 6 months. When you first start lifting, you're lifting light ass weight for the first few months, hopefully adding weight each week. When you start to get to ~1.5x bodyweight on compund lifts and 2x on squat you will see big results, but it takes a while to get to those numbers. that's my experience anyway, try sticking with it for a while. Or just use gears. I've probably taken up weight lifting 7 times since 1995 and I give up after about 4 months each time because my lifts just don't go up. I mean they do a little, but after I read about how other people's lifts go up (not on AAS), I get discouraged and stop. I don't even seem to lose strength when I stop. I took a weight lifting course in college back in 2001 (we had to write a fitness plan and diet plan and have him ok it), and he said I was the only one he'd ever seen where the lifts actually went down through the semester. He thought I just wasn't eating enough calories. But then the next semester I upped it and started gaining body fat, so I gave up. I checked my lifts against the strength std on exrx and I'm between untrained and novice on all my lifts even after lifting and eating right for the last 3 years religiously :(

Zane
07-24-2012, 07:09 PM
So what is your trt dose? And protcol? Are you on trt? Or did i miss that at the top?

Mkpaint
07-25-2012, 04:26 AM
I'm going to start at. 250mg per week then get blood work and adjust from there

TrojanMan60563
07-26-2012, 05:19 PM
With my 94 test levels I dont have any motivation to workout these days...blows

Mkpaint
07-27-2012, 03:36 AM
You need to see doctor. You will feel so much better if you get your levels up.

TrojanMan60563
07-27-2012, 08:04 AM
Mkpaint I am getting some help now, but its a slow process...these doctors like you to try some plan for 8-12 weeks then check labs again...when in reality 4 weeks is probably just fiine. Oh well eventually it will all get sorted out.

Intense
07-27-2012, 09:04 AM
Mkpaint I am getting some help now, but its a slow process...these doctors like you to try some plan for 8-12 weeks then check labs again...when in reality 4 weeks is probably just fiine. Oh well eventually it will all get sorted out.
Id get a second opinion from an endo doc, if they saw your levels they'd put you on legit trt asap. And not that whole injecting once every 2 weeks bullshit.

Zane
07-28-2012, 08:15 PM
I was getting in the 260-280 range an my doc upped me to 300 every two weeks. Instead I do 150 every week and test is 700. He is so proud of himself? And doesnt even know what i am doing? Feel much better as well

slownsteady
07-28-2012, 08:35 PM
My doc said he doesnt want my prostate bathing in testosterone. I wish he would just let me say how much each week I want to take.

brundel
07-29-2012, 01:13 PM
If your total T level is under 400......you feel terrible but you dont probably know it because your used to it.
400ng/dl is not very anabolic. Can you make gains? Maybe but I wouldnt hold your breath.
Do yourself a favor and get on HRT.
100mg every 3 days will feel like all the lights were turned back on.
Mood increases
libido
sense of wellbeing
Strength
motivation
Yes youll be pretty anabolic.......All my lifts went up after about a month on HRT.
Life gets better and better for a few months once you start. Its pretty awesome.

hypo_glycemic
07-29-2012, 01:15 PM
If your total T level is under 400......you feel terrible but you dont probably know it because your used to it.
400ng/dl is not very anabolic. Can you make gains? Maybe but I wouldnt hold your breath.
Do yourself a favor and get on HRT.
100mg every 3 days will feel like all the lights were turned back on.
Mood increases
libido
sense of wellbeing
Strength
motivation
Yes youll be pretty anabolic.......All my lifts went up after about a month on HRT.
Life gets better and better for a few months once you start. Its pretty awesome.

This^ x 2

TrojanMan60563
07-29-2012, 06:28 PM
Id get a second opinion from an endo doc, if they saw your levels they'd put you on legit trt asap. And not that whole injecting once every 2 weeks bullshit.

If I could have my way I'd pin 500mg each week. That would put me at a place I like being all the time. Its hard to see a new endo just yet. I've only seen this one 1 time. I'm going to split my dose into 100mg a week and see how the test goes. I dont know why these moron doctors think it takes 8-12 weeks for test to "build up" in your body. Doctors feel they are obligated to put you into normal range, however the low end of normal applies to a man of any age..like 80 for christ sake! I want 800-1000 or I'll keep looking.

MDAutry
08-28-2012, 07:44 AM
I have seen more docs about low T then I care to state. I finally got a Nurse Practitioner to help me out. She was against injections but went along with it. My labs came back at 900 ng/dl and she got freaked out saying I was way to high and it was dangerous. The best part is that she would not enter the exam room without a male doctor to watch out for her. She was afraid I would roid rage on her at 900 ng/dl WTF OVER! It gets better, she told me her boss no longer approved of her treating me and that was it.... Good luck... No more scripts... Fu!(ing doctors.