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malfeasance
09-27-2012, 05:45 AM
Are there any actual studies to back up the claim that testosterone levels decline with age? I have read studies that testosterone levels have been declining over time, that is, men in the 1950s had more testosterone than men today, but I do not recall seeing a study showing age related decline.

Is there such a study?

bjg
09-27-2012, 02:48 PM
^^^ it is a medical fact found in all medical endocrinology books. it is normal process, there are two schools when it comes to medicine: 1- most doctors do not prescribe any trt if the drop in test levels are normal with age and not due to any illness because there are not enough studies to back the benefits of trt as opposed to the studies proving their side effects.
2- some doctors believe in TRT and their benefits.

hypo_glycemic
09-27-2012, 02:53 PM
^ one of your better takes BJG

bjg
09-27-2012, 02:57 PM
^^ thanx hypo

hypo_glycemic
09-27-2012, 03:00 PM
^^ thanx hypo

No problem, but your take on females in bodybuilding was a fail.. Just sayin...

hoyle21
09-27-2012, 03:26 PM
^^^ it is a medical fact found in all medical endocrinology books. it is normal process, there are two schools when it comes to medicine: 1- most doctors do not prescribe any trt if the drop in test levels are normal with age and not due to any illness because there are not enough studies to back the benefits of trt as opposed to the studies proving their side effects.
2- some doctors believe in TRT and their benefits.

I'd like to see studies showing harmful sides for long term, true TRT doses. Feel free to PM them.

bjg
09-27-2012, 04:19 PM
No problem, but your take on females in bodybuilding was a fail.. Just sayin...

many misunderstood me here...i am not against female bodybuilding ..i just like to see women do bodybuilding to improve their looks and look graceful, muscular but still feminine...the way professional bodybuilding is going and the way some pros look like is far from the picture of what an ideal woman should look like. i mean just find one man who will say that iris kyle is attractive the way she looks! this is not normal ...a woman must be muscular in her own feminine way ...an d not look like a man on shit loads of steroids.

bjg
09-27-2012, 04:27 PM
I'd like to see studies showing harmful sides for long term, true TRT doses. Feel free to PM them.
THE MOST COMMON ADVERSE EFFECTS OF TESTOSTERONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY





Mar 16, 2010 | By Sharon Perkins


http://photos2.demandstudios.com/DM-Resize/photos.demandstudios.com/45/16/fotolia_2018401_XS.jpg?h=10000&w=400&keep_ratio=1Photo Credit testosterone image by Cornelia Pithart from Fotolia.comThe male hormone responsible for maintaining male sex characteristics, testosterone is also found in women in small quantities. Low testosterone affects sexual functioning and also increases the risk of developing osteoporosis. Decreased muscle mass, anemia, increased risk of cardiovascular disease and depression may also accompany low testosterone levels. Testosterone replacement therapy for men is available, but it comes with its own set of risks. Testosterone replacement therapy for women is still considered experimental.
MALE SEX ORGAN EFFECTSTestosterone replacement therapy stimulates prostate growth. The prostate enlarges in 12% of men taking testosterone, a condition called benign prostatic hypertrophy, or BPH. Urinary symptoms of BPH include urinary frequency (especially at night), urgency to urinate, incontinence, involuntary leakage and a weak urinary stream. Testosterone replacement therapy may increase the risk of prostate cancer, according to the Merck Manual website. Sperm counts may decrease, and testicles may shrink or become sensitive to touch. Male breast tissue may increase and be tender to touch as well.
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SKIN REACTIONSItching and irritation occurs at the site of application with transdermal patches 37% of the time, patches saturated with medication and placed on the skin to be slowly absorbed, according to Drugs.com. Burning, blistering and redness are also common side effects. Acne occurs in 8% of men taking the drug, and hair loss affects 1%.
OTHER SIDE EFFECTSFluid retention from testosterone replacement therapy may cause ankle and leg swelling, worsen hypertension and contribute to congestive heart failure, says Michael Werner, M.D., a urologist and specialist in male infertility and male sexual dysfunction. Oral forms of testosterone can cause liver damage as well. Headache, high blood pressure and an increase in sleep apnea (periods where a person stops breathing while asleep) may occur when taking testosterone replacement therapy. Red blood cell production may increase. This condition, known as polycythemia, may increase the risk of heart attack, stroke and clot development, Werner reports. Nervousness, anxiety and depression may also occur.
FEMALE SIDE EFFECTSWomen taking testosterone may develop acne, male pattern baldness or hair loss, or hirsuitism (hairiness). Breasts may decrease in size, while the clitoris size may increase. The voice may deepen as well --- an effect that may be permanent, even after discontinuing the drug, the University of Michigan Medical Center website explains. Menstrual cycles may become irregular in women still menstruating. Anger and hostility issues may escalate.
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REFERENCES



Read more: The Most Common Adverse Effects Of Testosterone Replacement Therapy | LIVESTRONG.COM (http://www.livestrong.com/article/94474-common-adverse-effects-testosterone-replacement/#ixzz27iQk5krg)

DetMuscle
09-27-2012, 09:01 PM
Side affects are you get big

Digitalash
09-28-2012, 02:21 AM
many misunderstood me here...i am not against female bodybuilding ..i just like to see women do bodybuilding to improve their looks and look graceful, muscular but still feminine...the way professional bodybuilding is going and the way some pros look like is far from the picture of what an ideal woman should look like. i mean just find one man who will say that iris kyle is attractive the way she looks! this is not normal ...a woman must be muscular in her own feminine way ...an d not look like a man on shit loads of steroids.




If some women want to follow the true bodybuilding lifestyle and see how far they can mentally and physically push themselves then that is their freedom. I do not find it attractive, and would never be with a woman of that size, but I can't condemn them for it. We all love that lifestyle as well, whos to say you wouldn't still love it if you were born in a female body? If you want girls training to look sexy then there is a bikini division for that.



THE MOST COMMON ADVERSE EFFECTS OF TESTOSTERONE REPLACEMENT THERAPY







Mar 16, 2010 | By Sharon Perkins


http://photos2.demandstudios.com/DM-Resize/photos.demandstudios.com/45/16/fotolia_2018401_XS.jpg?h=10000&w=400&keep_ratio=1Photo Credit testosterone image by Cornelia Pithart from Fotolia.comThe male hormone responsible for maintaining male sex characteristics, testosterone is also found in women in small quantities. Low testosterone affects sexual functioning and also increases the risk of developing osteoporosis. Decreased muscle mass, anemia, increased risk of cardiovascular disease and depression may also accompany low testosterone levels. Testosterone replacement therapy for men is available, but it comes with its own set of risks. Testosterone replacement therapy for women is still considered experimental.
MALE SEX ORGAN EFFECTS

Testosterone replacement therapy stimulates prostate growth. The prostate enlarges in 12% of men taking testosterone, a condition called benign prostatic hypertrophy, or BPH. Urinary symptoms of BPH include urinary frequency (especially at night), urgency to urinate, incontinence, involuntary leakage and a weak urinary stream. Testosterone replacement therapy may increase the risk of prostate cancer, according to the Merck Manual website. Sperm counts may decrease, and testicles may shrink or become sensitive to touch. Male breast tissue may increase and be tender to touch as well.
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SKIN REACTIONS

Itching and irritation occurs at the site of application with transdermal patches 37% of the time, patches saturated with medication and placed on the skin to be slowly absorbed, according to Drugs.com. Burning, blistering and redness are also common side effects. Acne occurs in 8% of men taking the drug, and hair loss affects 1%.
OTHER SIDE EFFECTS

Fluid retention from testosterone replacement therapy may cause ankle and leg swelling, worsen hypertension and contribute to congestive heart failure, says Michael Werner, M.D., a urologist and specialist in male infertility and male sexual dysfunction. Oral forms of testosterone can cause liver damage as well. Headache, high blood pressure and an increase in sleep apnea (periods where a person stops breathing while asleep) may occur when taking testosterone replacement therapy. Red blood cell production may increase. This condition, known as polycythemia, may increase the risk of heart attack, stroke and clot development, Werner reports. Nervousness, anxiety and depression may also occur.



Name one of these that can not be prevented with proper ancillaries or treatment, or that is worse than having a loss of sex drive/sexual function, depression, loss of energy, and negative changes in muscle and fat distribution. So you may have to pee more often, note it says "benign" prostate enlargement. If you take an AI and keep in normal ranges for test/estro fluid retention won't be an issue, polycythemia you get regular checkups and donate blood when necessary. Use hcg and your testes and sperm count will remain normal. Also there is no proof that testosterone replacement causes prostate cancer



To the OP: yes test levels decline with age, and estrogen increases. Thats a pretty well established fact

Robalo
09-28-2012, 02:35 AM
Longitudinal Effects of Aging on Serum Total and Free Testosterone Levels in Healthy Men (http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/86/2/724.short)

Age, Disease, and Changing Sex Hormone Levels in Middle-Aged Men: Results of the Massachusetts Male Aging Study (http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/73/5/1016.short)

ScienceDirect.com - Metabolism - Longitudinal changes in testosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in healthy older men (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049597900573)

malfeasance
09-28-2012, 11:12 AM
Longitudinal Effects of Aging on Serum Total and Free Testosterone Levels in Healthy Men (http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/86/2/724.short)

Age, Disease, and Changing Sex Hormone Levels in Middle-Aged Men: Results of the Massachusetts Male Aging Study (http://jcem.endojournals.org/content/73/5/1016.short)

ScienceDirect.com - Metabolism - Longitudinal changes in testosterone, luteinizing hormone, and follicle-stimulating hormone in healthy older men (http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0026049597900573)
Thank you, Robalo. This is what I was seeking.

malfeasance
09-28-2012, 11:14 AM
The average rate of decrement in testosterone concentration was 110 ng/dL every decade. From the last article. The others said about 1.3% yearly.

bjg
09-28-2012, 03:11 PM
digitalash: this is only one article i posted, but there are many of them...it is true what you said , many medicines have similar side effects, but still testosterone is like venturing into the unknown ..as far as cancer is concerned , testosterone therapy is linked to cancer , this does not mean that you are going to get cancer if you go on trt , many things are linked to cancer, the whole point is that many doctors especially the european school are very conservative when it comes to TRT , and believe that the benefits do not outweigh the risks.

Digitalash
09-28-2012, 05:30 PM
I respect your decision, and I suppose I just don't understand because I don't see what could be worse for a man than to lose his sexual function and strength. I'd take a slightly increased risk of cancer over that anyday. Still most of those side effects can be managed with proper ancillaries and regular bloodwork, and if there is any increased risk of cancer it is minimal. I have read that if you already have prostate cancer testosterone and I assume its conversion to DHT in particular can expedite the process, but never seen any proof that it can cause it directly.

hoyle21
09-28-2012, 06:13 PM
And low testosterone has been linked to all kinds of cardiac issues.

teezhay
09-29-2012, 12:42 AM
Of course a male with hormonal deficiency will experience side effects when they go on testosterone replacement therapy. If you need any proof, look at the physical changes taking place in every single healthy 14-year-old male undergoing puberty - there's your side effects.

It should be noted, though, that Tylenol has a helluva lot of "side effects" too. When pharmaceutical companies release any drug, they'd rather go overkill on listing side effects than forget to list a side effect that might occur, then get sued for it. Consequently, every drug has about a million listed "side effects" that are only rarely reported in actual users. This is just the nature of the drug market. But yeah testosterone does have side effects, and most of them are what you're looking for in the first place.

bjg
09-29-2012, 05:26 AM
digitalash: you are right in some points , the problem is that most people who have debut of prostate cancer do not even know it and it is very hard to detect in the beginning + you have the cardiac problems etc....
what i think is that if someone wants to go on TRT it should be with a minimal dose so that the total level in his system does not exceed a certain somewhat normal level

teezhay
09-29-2012, 12:16 PM
digitalash: you are right in some points , the problem is that most people who have debut of prostate cancer do not even know it and it is very hard to detect in the beginning + you have the cardiac problems etc....
what i think is that if someone wants to go on TRT it should be with a minimal dose so that the total level in his system does not exceed a certain somewhat normal level

If you have the resources necessary to undergo TRT/HRT (namely, access to basic health care), then you have the resources necessary to receive adequate preventative care (at the very least a regular physical examination). It all comes back to basic personal responsibility, and I think that's something on which we can all agree.

bjg
09-29-2012, 02:45 PM
^^^ sure test must be done and preventive care must be taken but one must be very careful especially at my age about some types of cancer because it is not that easy to detect them at first...but sure this matter of TRT should not be taken lightly.

yamar1
10-07-2012, 02:48 PM
Wow. So much misinformation in this thread. Newer research debunks a lot of what we once thought about the side effects associated with TRT. Check out these studies:

Testosterone Deficiency The Hidden Disease by E. Barry Gordon, M.D. (http://www.thehiddendisease.com/blog/medical-studies/)

yamar1
10-07-2012, 02:55 PM
Here is a study that debunks the prostate myth:

Effect of testosterone replacement therapy on prostate ... [JAMA. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17105798)

bjg
10-07-2012, 04:13 PM
^^ this is far from being a conclusive study,this is not a scientific study, it is a statistical study /...there are no conclusive statistical study on cancer and trt,..
in medicine you will always always see for example studies saying that product x will cause this and that , and other studies contradicting it ...I myself conducted a study on the effects of low frequency electromagnetic fields and cancer and read hundreds of studies on that, while most statistics confirmed the relationship, some studies suggested that emf are good for you! but logically speaking and engineering speaking we are bound to think that emf are harmful.
what i want to say is that there are things that are logical and do not need statistical studies. in fact in many cases the theory and logical cause and effects are formulated before going into a study, the study is just a statistics that will absolutely confirm the theory,... and in many cases a study to absolutely confirm the theory cannot be done on humans and/or require years and years of observation and thus is impossible.
TRT domain is still under debate and still unclear. some would take the risk and some would not. some doctors believe in it but still most don't.

yamar1
10-07-2012, 04:19 PM
^^ this is far from being a conclusive study,this is not a scientific study, it is a statistical study /...there are no conclusive statistical study on cancer and trt,..
in medicine you will always always see for example studies saying that product x will cause this and that , and other studies contradicting it ...I myself conducted a study on the effects of low frequency electromagnetic fields and cancer and read hundreds of studies on that, while most statistics confirmed the relationship, some studies suggested that emf are good for you! but logically speaking and engineering speaking we are bound to think that emf are harmful.
what i want to say is that there are things that are logical and do not need statistical studies. in fact in many cases the theory and logical cause and effects are formulated before going into a study, the study is just a statistics that will absolutely confirm the theory,... and in many cases a study to absolutely confirm the theory cannot be done on humans and/or require years and years of observation and thus is impossible.
TRT domain is still under debate and still unclear. some would take the risk and some would not. some doctors believe in it but still most don't.


Fair enough; however, a handful of double blind placebo-controlled studies showing zero relationship between testosterone replacement therapy and prostate health is sure as hell convincing to me.

Some of the recent studies proving TRT to be a preventative medicine is sure interesting as well.

I will agree TRT is still in it's infancy (despite it being around since the 50's!!), but I do appreciate some of the more open minded research behind it's use. I speculate due to it's recreational abuse it earned itself an unjustified bad reputation.

bjg
10-08-2012, 12:32 AM
^^ true the recreational abuse played a big role too ....

allen001
10-10-2012, 02:12 AM
And low testosterone has been linked to all kinds of cardiac issues.

please explain this, is there any relation with cardiac issues and low testosterone?

yamar1
10-10-2012, 11:53 AM
please explain this, is there any relation with cardiac issues and low testosterone?

yes. And its covered in the link I posted I believe

allen001
10-10-2012, 10:19 PM
yes. And its covered in the link I posted I believe

Well thanks for posting the link tell me how you tackle low testosterone ?

hypo_glycemic
10-10-2012, 11:14 PM
Well thanks for posting the link tell me how you tackle low testosterone ?

With testosterone treatment

yamar1
10-11-2012, 04:42 PM
With testosterone treatment

This. There is no other way (so I learned the hard way)

BP2000
10-11-2012, 05:57 PM
Are there any actual studies to back up the claim that testosterone levels decline with age? I have read studies that testosterone levels have been declining over time, that is, men in the 1950s had more testosterone than men today, but I do not recall seeing a study showing age related decline.

Is there such a study?

The male Endocrine system up-regulates until age 25 or so then levels out and after age 30 declines 1-3% per year. Of course everyone is different and genetics play a part in how much you lose. Some guys don't lose much at all.

allen001
10-15-2012, 03:54 AM
The male Endocrine system up-regulates until age 25 or so then levels out and after age 30 declines 1-3% per year. Of course everyone is different and genetics play a part in how much you lose. Some guys don't lose much at all.

Men physical fitness and health also plays important role in testosterone level, obese men are more likely to have early testosterone drop, and it depend on age too.

syed2011
10-15-2012, 05:06 AM
Are there any actual studies to back up the claim that testosterone levels decline with age? I have read studies that testosterone levels have been declining over time, that is, men in the 1950s had more testosterone than men today, but I do not recall seeing a study showing age related decline.

Is there such a study?

Yes testosterone levels decreases with increase in age. Once refer this link When Does Your Testosterone Level Start To Drop? | LIVESTRONG.COM (http://www.livestrong.com/article/228100-when-does-your-testosterone-level-start-to-drop/). You will get it!!

allen001
10-16-2012, 01:09 AM
Yes testosterone levels decreases with increase in age. Once refer this link When Does Your Testosterone Level Start To Drop? | LIVESTRONG.COM (http://www.livestrong.com/article/228100-when-does-your-testosterone-level-start-to-drop/). You will get it!!

I agree with you syed tell me do you have remedy for testosterone level improvement. I am using kegel exercise and some medicines they are helping me but do you know any alternative method?

Qwai Chang
10-16-2012, 10:02 PM
I'd like to see studies showing harmful sides for long term, true TRT doses. Feel free to PM them.

There will be none. Whether it's testosterone from a TRT/HRT clinic or something you ordered domestic or overseas, the body only recognizes testostorone and begins to utilize it.
Those eggheads have always know this fact. "Long Term Study"? I've been on TRT 600mg/mth for 1 year and steroid usage at 1,000-3,000mg/mth for 6 years total=7 years of non-stop usage.
Acne is the only side effect that I have to load up two solutions combined to combat "The Monster Zits".

allen001
10-16-2012, 10:07 PM
There will be none. Whether it's testosterone from a TRT/HRT clinic or something you ordered domestic or overseas, the body only recognizes testostorone and begins to utilize it.
Those eggheads have always know this fact. "Long Term Study"? I've been on TRT 600mg/mth for 1 year and steroid usage at 1,000-3,000mg/mth for 6 years total=7 years of non-stop usage.
Acne is the only side effect that I have to load up two solutions combined to combat "The Monster Zits".


Body absorbs testosterone getting from any solution or TRT/HRT, there are several side effects of it, but it depends upon what you are using and how

sohappy
10-22-2012, 03:38 AM
Test goes down, DHT goes up. Hair becomes non-existent.

energenex
10-22-2012, 12:49 PM
This is medical fact and written in many medical books about Low t problem. Testosterone level decreases with increasing age. Symptoms are low sexual drive, body weakness, Low Libido problem and depression. It can be cured by Hormone Replacement Therapy

allen001
10-22-2012, 09:29 PM
Test goes down, DHT goes up. Hair becomes non-existent.
But Low Testosterone can be treated. Several HRT like androgel (http://www.performanceinsiders.com/androgel.html) HRT help to get better testosterone.

willoconner987
05-21-2013, 11:18 PM
Yes, test levels drops with age and there are many scientific studies that has proved this claim.
No doubt, with growing age the test level drops down but it can be cured by just taking a bit of precautions and maintaining a good and healthy lifestyle.

ohiostate2827
05-23-2013, 12:45 PM
There will be none. Whether it's testosterone from a TRT/HRT clinic or something you ordered domestic or overseas, the body only recognizes testostorone and begins to utilize it.
Those eggheads have always know this fact. "Long Term Study"? I've been on TRT 600mg/mth for 1 year and steroid usage at 1,000-3,000mg/mth for 6 years total=7 years of non-stop usage.
Acne is the only side effect that I have to load up two solutions combined to combat "The Monster Zits".
Keep an eye on your DHEA levels.. prolong trt can result in dhea levels starting to drop.. some ppl have to supplement