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Strength and Size

silencer

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I read a thread somewhere which indicated that Strength training and size training are completely different. I have read many times that most people only train each muscle group 1x a week... I train my back/chest and arms probably 3 times a week and I don't really get sore and I havn't overtrained..(Maybe because when I think I'm about to I take a 5 day break)
But anyway I was wondering wether I should try the usual routine of training 1 muscle group each week...

And what is the best combination .. ie which muscle groups train together best ?

Thanks
 
Oh yea....

And my goal is to Bulk up.
 
i would just like to say that because you 'feel' like your not overtraining means very little
 
I am reading Mike Mentzer's newly published book "High Intensity Training", and according to him there is only one way of correct/effective training, which is HIT. He said that strength will be the most immediate result, then size increase will follow strength increase periodically. This means strength and size trainings are not that different, the same HIT method will increase first strength and then size. He also recommended training every 4-6 days only, with splits chest/back, legs/abs, shoulders/arms, legs/abs (return to chest/back, and so on).

Any opinion?

- Josh
 
I'm not particularly into the HIT system, as I do multiple sets, usually 3 sets for each exercise.
Furthermore, I have been training for 4/5 months now.
I hit each body part probably 3 times a week like I mentioned previously...
I don't think I am overtrained at all... as I have been making pretty good progress lately. But I was wondering, if I wanted to gain size, would a split for example of

Chest/Biceps , Back/Triceps Legs/Abs be good, and therefore allowing my muscles to recover for a week ?...
 
Originally posted by Josh
He said that strength will be the most immediate result, then size increase will follow strength increase periodically. This means strength and size trainings are not that different, the same HIT method will increase first strength and then size.
Any opinion?

- Josh



http://www.deepsquatter.com/strength/archives/ls12.htm

A great read by Louie Simmons about H.I.T!
 
Mike Mentzer was a bodybuilder, he has no clue about strength.
 
Here are a few things that will help you:

Ignore Mike Mentzer if strength is what you are after. Look to a strength coach.

I agree with Jamal, just because you feel like you aren't overtraining, doesn't mean anything with only 4/5 months experience behind you.

This shouldn't come off as an insult. Someone who has been playing golf for 6 years can control his game much more than someone who just started, and the same applies here. More advance lifters can 'feel' the signs of overtraining in a way that beginners (which is a catagory that people who have been training less than a year fall into) cannot.

My recomendation would be to train 4 days per week, and work antagonistic muscles together. Here would be a decent example of a split.

Monday: Chest (horizontal pushing) / back (horizontal rowing)
Tuesday: Quads/Hamstrings
Thursday: Shoulders (Lateral pushing) / back (lateral pulling)
Friday: Biceps/Triceps

Take it for what you will...without examining your physique it is difficult to tell you what the best split for your body would be.
 
Originally posted by Pazza
Mike Mentzer was a bodybuilder, he has no clue about strength.

He and his brother have both passed on awhile back. Some bodybuilders can be very strong, but it IS very different training, and realistically rarely do bodybuilders look like powerlifters and vice versa.
 
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When you strength train with volume, its common to put on a muscle size if your dieting right too. You just wont gain as mutch mass as somone doing the one muscle group a week split. However they wont be gaining as mutch strength. Its all Give and take imho. You just have to decide what you wanna do.
 
Silecer, A split may work for you now. You said that you train back, chest and arms 3 times a week. Do you train legs at all?? There is nothing wrong with training the whole body 3 times a week (ie mon, wed, fri) provided i is done properly and there is no overtraining going on. If you have been doing this for four or five months straight then i think it is time for a change, you need to mix things up to keep your body, more importantly your neurological system, from adapting to the same time of stilmuli. It may be time for a different split.
 
Yea,

after reading a few more in depth articles I have come to realise that I needed a change in routine, and more time for my muscles to recover to add mass.
Therefore I have started a new training regime. 3 Day split.

Monday: Chest,Shoulders,Biceps

Wednesday: Legs, Abs

Friday: Back, Triceps


And I just re-weighed my self today.. I have smashed another plateau, Ie I have gain another few pounds within a short period.. as well as strength, I weight 79KG, a 173lbs I think.
Thats 7KG in 4 Months +/- .. 7KG = 15.4 Lbs.

I am happy, and thanks for the advise
 
Lets throw some information out there:

1. Muscle recovery depends on muscle size and muscle depletion.
What I think many bodybuilders overlook is that when you are just starting out:

a) your muscle size is not as large (especially for novices delts and triceps)

b) you havent learned how to expend yourself fully (this is one of those magical realizations that comes with experience; one day you will workout and be "whoaaa...that was intense"

This is why, especially for smaller muscle groups, you can definitely (initially) hit the muscle 3 times a week and gain size. Do not get me wrong...im not endorsing this, and after gaining the amount of weight you have you should definitely cut back how often you lift and use the new split you listed above.

2. Strength training and size training often somewhat different; size and strength have a moderate correlation.

You are going to gain size if you gain strength (many powerlifters are very dismayed that despite their best efforts they put on mass and have to move up a weight class)

Getting larger in stature often results in heavier weights being lifted to spur that growth.

3. Mike Mentzer is not a powerlifter and MANY lifters and bodybuilders have quite a bit of success without following his system...so any comments he makes about his system being the only system for success are obviously false.

Many of his comments and advice is anecdotal; his ideas about more reps for the legs come with absolutely no proof behind them...i know many bodybuilders who have hit legs for 3 sets of 6-8 heavy and have made phenomenonal gains. It doesnt mean that more reps for legs do not work...i have just never seen it demonstrated to be better. Also, mentzer and company were pretty heavy into the drugs, so their advice might not well be suited to you.

4. On your new split, only one piece of advice. I like working chest and shoulders together...hitting chest first fatigues your shoulders and lets you finish them off fast. However, if you do that for shoulders, why not your triceps? Your triceps are fatigued as well, hit them in that workout as well. (that is if you want to be consistent) Same thing with your back...hit your biceps the same day. (in other words, switch biceps with triceps on your routine)

Strictly IMO here, but your ab muscles are far too small and recover too quickly to be hit only once a week...maybe on the short back day add it as well? Also, any cardio? I dont use cardio to lean out but i do use it for cardiovascular endurance...(12-15 minutes hard on a bike, elliptical, etc 2/week) that way when i lift its my muscles keeping me from lifting anymore, not my lack of breath.
 
Originally posted by silencer
Monday: Chest,Shoulders,Biceps

Wednesday: Legs, Abs

Friday: Back, Triceps

Switch biceps/triceps, otherwise looks good.
 
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