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Mudge
12-22-2003, 12:59 PM
Heck if I know, just passing it on.


Originally posted by BiggieSwolls
Ok, I just got off the phone with a pretty well known nutritionist here in Canada who trains a lot of competitors, Models, Pro Athletes, etc....

He is no joke. His knowledge is very impressive when it comes to drugs, food, etc..

One thing about our conversation today that struck me as interesting was the fact that he was pretty adament that long term use of GH, 7 days a week, would turn you into a diabetic in about 8 out of 10 users. He started quoting some Doctors that had been speaking at a seminar he attended last year and also was telling me some other medical info to back up his claim. Of course, I am no Doctor and couldnt understand some of the medical info he was speaking of. The end result of our conversation was that he believes that the 5 days on 2 days off method would definitely allow you to avoid becoming a diabetic if you were planning on using GH for a long period of time ie. over 6 months.

Id love to hear some educated thoughts on this.

prolangtum
12-22-2003, 01:20 PM
It wont make you a diabetic, just like using insulin PWO wont either. But, it will make you become quite insulin resistant if used for a long period of time (HGH that is) and thats why you see most people use insulin at least once or twice daily while running GH.

A.B
12-23-2003, 10:11 AM
Originally posted by prolangtum
It wont make you a diabetic, just like using insulin PWO wont either. But, it will make you become quite insulin resistant if used for a long period of time (HGH that is) and thats why you see most people use insulin at least once or twice daily while running GH.

:thumb:

kevinkm4
01-07-2004, 06:26 PM
thats one listed side effect to go with the thousands of others that might occur, use with caution as always, and of course under a doctors supervision

Power Rabbit
01-07-2004, 07:50 PM
I personally am too cheap to run gh so i aint gonna worry...but i definately will run slin some time or another...

Mudge
01-07-2004, 09:11 PM
Save GH for injuries or when you are a monster, or run it low dose IMO.

No more pain for me on deca even with the accutane running through me, deca + my glucosamine fixed my ass right up, heavy benching and curling is here again.

bandaidwoman
01-08-2004, 03:58 AM
The answer is yes and no and it depends.

Nature has provided us with a natural experimentation that shows us what happens when someone has chronic over production of human growth hormone...called acromegaly, and most of these people develop diabetes.


With that said, the studies on the effects of hGH ( human growth hormone) have been seen in many approved medical conditions for its use and depending on the dose, diabetes may develop or not.

For instance, the approved dosage of hGH for HIV wasting syndrome is 0.1 mg/kg/day (average 6 mg/day), which is significantly higher than the physiologic replacement dosage (0.01-0.025 mg/kg/day) given for growth hormone deficiency and the dosage (average 0.5 mg/kg/day) administered for conditions such as idiopathic short stature, Turner's syndrome, and chronic renal failure. At higher dosages, the potential for adverse effects becomes greater, in addition to the possibility of intensifying previously clinically insignificant side effects.


Studies are underway to determine long-term efficacy and adverse effects of hGH at the currently approved pharmacologic dosage of 0.1 mg/kg/day for treatment of HIV wasting syndrome To date, no case reports of clinically significant hyperglycemia or diabetes secondary to hGH for this indication have been published. But then, no long term studies have yet to be carrried out.

Remember, the metabolic effects of growth hormone include both insulin-like and antiinsulin-like activities. An initial increase in glucose use and lipolysis was shown in vitro (petri dishes) with growth hormone. The hormone's insulin-like activity in vivo ( in bodies) was described as mild, transient hypo-glycemia; however, this effect does not appear to be of clinical importance. More significant, many investigators found that growth hormone impairs the ability of insulin to decrease hepatic glucose production and also decreases glucose uptake and use, resulting in insulin resistance.

Physiologic dosing of growth hormone is not expected to produce clinically significant alterations in glucose metabolism...... But I believe, BBs are not using physiologic doses.

In fact, what doses are BBs using?


Any way, a study of a replacement dosage of hGH in adults with growth hormone deficiency did not find significant changes in glucose or HbA1c after 26 weeks. However, a randomized, placebo-controlled study of physiologic hGH in adult-onset growth hormone deficiency in 32 patients found a statistical increase in fasting glucose levels .

The National Cooperative Growth Study provided data representing over 19,000 children treated with rhGH for several indications.Twenty-one subjects in this database developed diabetes This is significantly lower than the 8/10 odds your nutritionist friend quoted. This is using a large data bank of trial subjects. Of course, extrapolating child physiology ot adult physiology is not exactly correct either.


Other conditions where we use hGH is for wasting syndrome and other metabolic conditions such as postoperative catabolism, malnourishment, and severe burns. Although the long-term effects of this regimen on glucose metabolism are not fully elucidated, statistically significant increases in glucose and HbA1c were described[. However, most studies covered only very short periods of time.

More importantly, stopping the hGH at times reversed the hyperglycemia, but at other times, it didn't! I suspect cycling off and on the hGH would decrease your chances of developing diabetes unlike constant usage....but I don't think we know yet.

samat631
02-02-2004, 12:11 PM
you know where i could find information on using insulin ?

Power Rabbit
02-02-2004, 12:21 PM
www.basskilleronline.com

Mudge
02-02-2004, 12:45 PM
You better know exactly what you are doing, someone went into a diabetic coma and almost induced brain damage. He had been using it for awhile and did nothing different but somehow his body responded poorly, he was lucky.

Mudge
02-02-2004, 12:56 PM
The shit hit him all of a sudden. He took his usual 80 grams dextrose and 40 grams protein right after, then he ate another solid meal 45 minutes later. He was watching tv and the next thing he remembers waking up in the hospital.

samat631
02-02-2004, 02:32 PM
i am a type 1 diabetic i know lots about insulin , hypoglycemia, and insuilin shock. its helped me alot with strength training at the gym