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View Full Version : ENATHATE ONLY 1st Cycle - Please Critique and answer some questions



randy841
03-23-2004, 07:44 PM
I want to do the following cycle, please critique and and answer some questions.
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DAY 1-68: 10 Week Enathate at 250mg twice wkly = 500mg wkly

DAY 1-73: 500 i.u. HCG Every 5th day starting on 5th day after first shot AND last shot 6 days before starting PCT

DAY 1-100 +: Creatine 10g daily

DAY 69-80: Off

DAY 81-110: PCT
Clomid 300mg[day 1] 100mg[9 days] 50mg [11days]= 21 days

Nolvadex 40mg [14 days] 20mg [16 days] = 30 days
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MOST WORRIED about : Hair Loss and Gyno--other problems usually resolve themselves at the conservative dosages I am planning.

EXPECTATIONS: Looking to gain 15-20 solid muscle [long term] and lose body fat by tweaking diet, if possible

WHAT CAN I REALLY EXPECT?

I would really like to break the 16.5 inch [Flexed] arm barrier, which is a shame at 215lb IMO and unproportionate to well built chest, back, and legs-- CAN THIS THRESHOLD BE BROKEN WITH A CYCLE?
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Age: 25
5'9"
215LB
15-17% body fat
Training 8yrs + [4 years off from Sept 1999-Aug 2003]
TRAIN 4-6 times wkly 1:30-3:00 hrs + cardio/abs etc.
Bench 275lb+ * 4-8
Squat 315+ * 8-10
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QUESTIONS [I have done extensive research on all q's, but I thought I get opinions as for some q's I remain unsure]

1] Is Clomid really necessary as I use HCG throughout the cycle, I am skeptical about Clomid and side effects?

2] For Tes Enat what Gauge needle to use 22g or 23 g?

3] PCT Clomid Should I continue for 9 more days for a total of 30 days?

4] For HCG what Gauge needle to use--is 25g ok (or higher, if any)?

5] When should the last HCG shot be?

6] Should I use Nolvadex throughout the cycle to counteract water retention so that post cycle I do not lose as much water weight rapidly?

7] Should Clomid/Nolva be taken in divided doses during the day--if needed during cycle and PCT?

8] Do I have to worry about using from day 1 anti-aromatases like Arimidex, Femara, or Cytadren?

9] Can Enat and HCG be taken on the same day (only for some days), probably morning and night etc. OR can I draw the HCG with Enat and also use it the same day as Enat Shot?

All input is appreciated greatly...THANKS!

GSXR750
03-24-2004, 12:01 AM
..........interesting
:scratch:

Power Rabbit
03-24-2004, 09:18 AM
1 if hcg gyno is a prob i would use nolvadex instead

2 your choice...i use a 25g for most of my stuff

3 again up to you...longer is probably better

4 for hcg use a insulin needle....even when diluted 500iu of hgc is a tiny amount...slin pins are accurrate and good for a hcg SubQ injection

5 really dont know...too many conflicting opinions..

6 you would be better off running a anti aromatase like femara for this purpose

7 you can but they have a long halflife so it really dosent matter

8 see question 6...its not required unless your gyno prone....

9 I would not draw the hcg with the test....again its such a small amount that you need a slin pin....and sub q is the better administration of HCG...not IM

randy841
03-28-2004, 12:52 PM
How much HCG is too much HCG wkly? 500iu ok?

Power Rabbit
03-28-2004, 11:48 PM
anything over 500iu a day is pushing it...hcg can kill lydig cells if you use too much...

honestly i think some people go overboard on hcg...your pretty much doing a 10 weeker...you really might not need hcg to get your boys running again in a timely manner...id say you need it if it was longer than a 10 weeker...

if done right i could help...but you cant say it couldnt hurt

randy841
03-29-2004, 12:14 AM
Bro it is HCG at 500iu every 5TH DAY NOT DAILY. The rational behind this is so that it is easier to recover at the end once I start PCT + things don't look too funny around the girlfriend -- expecially if I was hit hard on my 1st cycle.

I think 500iu is going overboard if it was daily!

KEEP ME POSTED. THANKS!

Mudge
03-29-2004, 11:16 AM
Originally posted by randy841
Bro it is HCG at 500iu every 5TH DAY NOT DAILY.

SWALE says you can run it as frequently as you need, 250-500iu per administration and no more. So if someone NEEDS to run it daily (not likely) then go for it.

If using 1cc of bac water with a 5000iu amp of hCG, then 500iu is only going to be 10 units on a slin pin, aka 1/10th of a cc. Not easy to measure without the slin pin.

randy841
03-30-2004, 12:27 AM
Originally posted by Mudge
SWALE says you can run it as frequently as you need, 250-500iu per administration and no more. So if someone NEEDS to run it daily (not likely) then go for it.

If using 1cc of bac water with a 5000iu amp of hCG, then 500iu is only going to be 10 units on a slin pin, aka 1/10th of a cc. Not easy to measure without the slin pin.

I didn't know if HCG could be run daily- if need be. I read Swale's Sticky, as well as several others from which I improvised this HCG dosage and frequency plan.

About measuring HCG accurately I never even thought about that, although I planned on buying the 29g slin pin with the recommendations of the board members. I GUESS THAT IS WHERE I LEARN THROUGH TRIAL AND ERROR -- LITTLE THINGS THAT MIGHT NOT SEEM TO BE AN ISSUE OR MATTER AT ALL AT FIRST.

Hey thanks a million Mudge for asking Swale and posting this response. I am glad I can get this type of input.

:thumb: :D

Power Rabbit
03-30-2004, 10:22 AM
like i said ...daily is fine...i see more guys wait till mid cycle and jab 500iu a day for a week or so to get in order....

your way seems like a ok approach, just keep us posted on its effectiveness

randy841
03-30-2004, 01:28 PM
Originally posted by Power Rabbit
like i said ...daily is fine...i see more guys wait till mid cycle and jab 500iu a day for a week or so to get in order....

your way seems like a ok approach, just keep us posted on its effectiveness


ONCE I START MY 1ST CYCLE I WILL KEEP YOU POSTED IF EVERYTHING STAYS AS IS.

However, if there is a better aproach please keep me posted.

:confused: Do you think a 10 wk cycle would be sufficient or should i go a little longer as it takes at least the first 3-4 weeks for enanthate to kick in - HOW WOULD YOU THEN USE THE HCG.:confused:

THANKS!:)

Mudge
03-31-2004, 11:39 AM
Randy, you may not "need" the hCG until further in, play it however you and your wallet feel like it. More often is better, than a higher dose, that is the main point to come away from this with.

The docs on the boards are saying that aromatase action itself is probably what is killing leydig cells, and estrogen spikes higher than most people expect, when hCG shots are administered. With this in mind I run anti aromatase through the entire cycle now.

So try 250iu twice a week, if that is good enough then be happy with it. If it isn't try 500iu twice a week. You can start immediately or you can wait until the 3rd week or you can never use it at all, it is up to you. Shutdown is near 100% in some people within about 2 days, in others they will still have some LH/FSH activity even while on gear (HRT patients see this).