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View Full Version : Doc wants to try HRT in high doses...



Weatherlite
05-14-2004, 10:03 AM
Ok, first let me say that I'm new to the whole idea of using gear. I've used PH's in the past and have been natural except for them. However, lately I've been feeling strange....had all the symptoms of male depression. Went in for a checkup and have very low levels of T, high E-T ratio etc etc...in other words a candidate for HRT.

The doc at first started talking about one regimen until he started asking about my activity level. (I've been unable to workout for quite some time due to an injury and then surgery so I've gotten quite "padded") Once he learned that I workout regularly and that I'm a natural endomorph he said he was going to revise the regimen. He said that this was due to the fact that at a normal dose I would use up enough T with my workouts that there wouldn't be the proper amount left for normal body functions...in other words it would be like I never had HRT in the first place. So, with a higher dose there will be enough left over to cover all aspects of my body's needs.

So, this is what he wants to prescribe-although he didn't give me dosage levels since I haven't given him the ok (I want to be sure I understand this all first). He recommended once a week injections of Testosterone Cypionate and Nandrolone Decanoate for 10 weeks. After that I take two weeks off with nothing. Then I go on a three week PCT consisting of Clomid and another product which I'll have to ask about again. It sounded like he said ALA but I thought that was alpha lipolitic acid.

He said that the test was the HRT but that since he knew I would end up gaining mass he wanted to add the nandrolone decanoate to help the connective tissues in the joints. At first I thought this was BS til I did research on the net and found out it's true.

As I understand it Cyp is a long lasting version so why once a week injections? What are the pros and cons of it?

How about the nandrolone? I realize it does have legit tissue support but it is also anabolic so perhaps he's just being extra nice by prescribing it?

Clomid-Looks like it raises test levels and inhibits the production of estrogen....am I right? If this is so then why not use Nolvadex during the two week off pre-PCT timeframe to stop all of that excess estrogen from binding first?

Sorry this is a bit long but I want to make sure I understand this all.

BTW, I know it's expensive and it's cheaper to buy gear elsewhere but my insurance covers 100% of this so I figured what the hell....especially since originally it was for my low T levels and not just to "get gear".

Thanks for any help or advice!

Mikie

Mudge
05-14-2004, 11:51 AM
He recommended once a week injections of Testosterone Cypionate and Nandrolone Decanoate for 10 weeks. After that I take two weeks off with nothing. Then I go on a three week PCT consisting of Clomid and another product which I'll have to ask about again. It sounded like he said ALA but I thought that was alpha lipolitic acid.

Pretty strange for an HRT doc to prescribe deca :shrug: ALA = Alpha Lipoic Acid.


As I understand it Cyp is a long lasting version so why once a week injections? What are the pros and cons of it?

Once a week is a little abnormal, typically HRT patients get bi-weekly or once every third week shots, 100-200mg per administration is typical, but it depends on several factors.


Clomid-Looks like it raises test levels and inhibits the production of estrogen....

Clomid is suppsosed to help stimulate LH to produce testosterone naturally again, it does this by occupying the estrogen receptor site with a weaker estrogen, itself. It does not inhibit production, its a "blocker." Production inhibitors would be anti-aromatase drugs, not anti-estrogens, the term anti-estrogen is sometimes used interchangeably though.


If this is so then why not use Nolvadex during the two week off pre-PCT timeframe to stop all of that excess estrogen from binding first?

No significant reason to do so since the drug tapers off, however you could certainly do so. I dont know how badly cholesterol levels might be during this time frame with nolvadex use though.

Power Rabbit
05-15-2004, 03:06 AM
sounds like a gear oriented doc :-)

JerseyDevil
05-15-2004, 06:46 PM
Originally posted by Weatherlite
He recommended once a week injections of Testosterone Cypionate and Nandrolone Decanoate for 10 weeks. After that I take two weeks off with nothing. Then I go on a three week PCT consisting of Clomid and another product which I'll have to ask about again.
Sounds like your doc is recommending a gear cycle, not HRT. There is a lot of controversy concerning HRT, so opinions regarding it vary wildly. Very few HRT docs are going to recommend Deca, and also a three week pct. Since you 'workout', maybe he is sympathic to your efforts to gain mass. I say go for it. :thumb:

Mudge
05-15-2004, 07:08 PM
Yeah, deca is not exactly HRT, I am going to assume he is going to note that you have joint pains of some kind which unless you specified is kind of fuzzy ethically speaking.

Without knowing what kind of doses he is subscribing though you can't say a whole lot about it, although deca is certainly not HRT.

TrojanMan60563
05-16-2004, 06:35 AM
I looked into going the HRT route. It can be done, but the doses are not that high and its very expensive for what little you get. I can't afford to do it that way, but if your insurance covers it then go for it. Since I am only 24 I have just assumed my insurance isn't going to cover it.

Mudge
05-16-2004, 12:40 PM
I know an HIT freak who has one nut and scored a 180 on his test levels, his doc will NOT give him HRT nor will he refer him to an endo because he sees no purpose in doing so.

I believe he is 6'1" 205 after a couple M1T cycles.

TrojanMan60563
05-16-2004, 04:44 PM
I need to mind me a doc to scrib me like 2-4iu HGH a day for about a year. That way insurance will pay for it..lol

TrojanMan60563
05-16-2004, 04:44 PM
come to think of it my insurance probably wouldn't cover it anyways

Weatherlite
05-17-2004, 12:27 PM
Well, lessee, I'm 31 and have T levels at ~235 with the "normal" range being from 220-1100 according to the test sheet. First doc (my "primary care manager") said no need since I'm in the normal range. So, I asked for a referral and this doc says OK.

I've read lots of posts where folks say it isn't worthwhile since HRT can't get you into the "anabolic" range for Testosterone levels. Well, exactly what is the "anabolic range" for test? If it's above 1100 then I suppose you're right. No legit HRT will go that high. However, if it's within that range then I should be able to reach it legitimately. Right?

Either way, I look at it like this...I'm 5' 10", weigh about 245 (Fat as hell right now due to injury and surgery) but when I'm at a normal fat level I weigh ~205. So, if I can attain that with a T level of 235 then ANYTHING higher than that would be better than continuing on with the measly amount my balls put out.

As for the deca-he said it wasn't HRT. However, he did specifically state that it was to support healthy joint function due to increases in strength that the joint couldn't keep up with. Maybe that's the legalese needed to justify it. Who knows?

Mikie

Mudge
05-17-2004, 06:55 PM
My friend with one nut scores a 180 and his doc wouldn't send him to an endo. Most of the time when I see normal ranges its 280-850ish, but each clinic can use whatever they want.

TrojanMan60563
05-17-2004, 07:37 PM
I'm going to get blood work done before my cycle just to find out what my test levels are before. To find out how genetically gifted, or not gifted I am.

Mudge
05-17-2004, 07:52 PM
Even the genetically gifted can be heavily suppressed for long periods of time. Silverback316 was 22 when he finished his first cycle and was I believe 265@10% or so, looked plenty lean, 6 foot tall. He had low T for 11 months after his very first cycle.

On his second cycle he isn't far below 300 pound, again on a 6 foot frame.

R.A.
05-17-2004, 08:11 PM
I do once a week shots @ 150 mg of test cypionate. Doctor prescribed, It really is too low actually, I am sure he will bump it to 200 a week.

Mudge
05-17-2004, 09:05 PM
Actually in the HRT world 150mg of cypionate is quite a lot, where did it put you on the scale? Unless your aromatase activity is high you should have a very high test level now.

Prince
05-17-2004, 09:20 PM
Originally posted by Weatherlite
Ok, first let me say that I'm new to the whole idea of using gear. I've used PH's in the past and have been natural except for them. However, lately I've been feeling strange....had all the symptoms of male depression. Went in for a checkup and have very low levels of T, high E-T ratio etc etc...in other words a candidate for HRT.

The doc at first started talking about one regimen until he started asking about my activity level. (I've been unable to workout for quite some time due to an injury and then surgery so I've gotten quite "padded") Once he learned that I workout regularly and that I'm a natural endomorph he said he was going to revise the regimen. He said that this was due to the fact that at a normal dose I would use up enough T with my workouts that there wouldn't be the proper amount left for normal body functions...in other words it would be like I never had HRT in the first place. So, with a higher dose there will be enough left over to cover all aspects of my body's needs.

So, this is what he wants to prescribe-although he didn't give me dosage levels since I haven't given him the ok (I want to be sure I understand this all first). He recommended once a week injections of Testosterone Cypionate and Nandrolone Decanoate for 10 weeks. After that I take two weeks off with nothing. Then I go on a three week PCT consisting of Clomid and another product which I'll have to ask about again. It sounded like he said ALA but I thought that was alpha lipolitic acid.

He said that the test was the HRT but that since he knew I would end up gaining mass he wanted to add the nandrolone decanoate to help the connective tissues in the joints. At first I thought this was BS til I did research on the net and found out it's true.

As I understand it Cyp is a long lasting version so why once a week injections? What are the pros and cons of it?

How about the nandrolone? I realize it does have legit tissue support but it is also anabolic so perhaps he's just being extra nice by prescribing it?

Clomid-Looks like it raises test levels and inhibits the production of estrogen....am I right? If this is so then why not use Nolvadex during the two week off pre-PCT timeframe to stop all of that excess estrogen from binding first?

Sorry this is a bit long but I want to make sure I understand this all.

BTW, I know it's expensive and it's cheaper to buy gear elsewhere but my insurance covers 100% of this so I figured what the hell....especially since originally it was for my low T levels and not just to "get gear".

Thanks for any help or advice!

Mikie

this is all bullshit.

JerseyDevil
05-18-2004, 02:44 AM
Originally posted by Robert ********
this is all bullshit.
Could you elaborate Rob?

TrojanMan60563
05-18-2004, 09:18 AM
Mudge does that silverback guy have any pics on any of the boards? He must be freaking massive. There was pics of some guy on steroidology, and anabolex of some german guy bsaba or something close to that. He was very impressive. I wonder how old that guy is.

Mudge
05-18-2004, 10:48 AM
I think he is 23 now and yes he has pix on the board and yes he is pretty built, his neck looks like a leg. He is 6 foot and last I heard high 280s and he never gets really fat, his 265ish pic he had abs, intercostals, the works.

R.A.
05-18-2004, 01:08 PM
*Quote
Actually in the HRT world 150mg of cypionate is quite a lot, where did it put you on the scale? Unless your aromatase activity is high you should have a very high test level now. "

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------


I have not been checked yet for the 150. When using 100 mg though I was still in the low end of the scale.

Mudge
05-18-2004, 02:13 PM
I wonder what your estro looked like.

brodus
05-18-2004, 03:31 PM
this is all bullshit.

I agree. It's an exercise in fear-avoidance on the part of the O.P. who is too paranoid to spill the beans. Maybe he's worried about his computer being confiscated if he gets busted for juice, or something.

Guys-->this is a full-on GEAR CYCLE, complete with Clomid, ALA, etc. This is NOT an HRT CYCLE! There is no doctor! This is a MASS-BUILDING CYCLE, not a cutter (which he needs), and it will FURTHER SUPRESS HIS TEST!!

I laughed when I read it, because it looked like a board member wrote the "scrip."

You don't find it funny that:

1. Someone with legitimate HRT would wander onto this board AND
2. Know a WHOLE LOT about gear/cycles, feigning ignorance but being DEAD ON on the pharma. action of anti-estrogens, cypionate esterfication, etc.?

Mudge
05-18-2004, 05:45 PM
HRT docs wont likely prescribe clomid because you dont come off, so good calls.

dogsbreath
05-18-2004, 06:23 PM
i'm on hrt i have 3 200mg inplants in me and i also get proviron 1 x 25mg pd and this keeps me on the level. what you doc is going to give you is unreal i wish mine would give me access to that. i've been to 5 diferent doc's 3 give me what i need and the other 2 won't even concidder giving me hrt. i'm in australia and here my level was 9 and the scale goes from 10-33 for normal. i can't believe your doc is giving all that gear.
he's a lucky fella

Prince
05-18-2004, 08:04 PM
Originally posted by Mudge
HRT docs wont likely prescribe clomid because you dont come off, so good calls.

exactly.

nor would they put someone on HRT that quickly, many tests are required.

also, they're goal is to get your testosterone in the "normal range", not high.

TrojanMan60563
05-18-2004, 08:07 PM
IMO eventually using gear for HRT is going to be more excepted and doctors will prescribe more things related to what bodybuilders take. I think it may even become a cosmetic type thing where you go to your doc for roids to look good, not just for HRT. It may not happen for a while but I think eventually it will be no different then women going to the doc to have their lips pumped up and their breasts enlarged.

Prince
05-18-2004, 09:34 PM
that would be true if they did not fear losing their licenses, steroids are a class III scheduled drug, they cannot just go around Rx'ing steroids without legit reason and many tests to back it up.

brodus
05-19-2004, 12:43 AM
also, they're goal is to get your testosterone in the "normal range", not high.

Of course, which is why I started laughing at the original post!

Test prop and deca are taking you into way superphisiological realms...not exactly something they teach you in med school!

Ever heard of a little thing called supression ?

JerseyDevil
05-19-2004, 04:05 AM
There are some 'online' HRT clinics popping up, and some are crossing the line well past the grey area. On 'ology awhile back there was a debate between Swale, a well respected HRT doc, and a place called Palm Beach Clinic IIRC. The Palm Beach guy was prescribing 200mg/wk of test cyp and also cycling every 10 weeks or so, with pct. Swale was calling him a steroid dealer, and he said Swale was behind the times.

To show how ignorant some docs are though, I've been on HRT for 3 years. Just your basic 1 packet of Androgel a day. My doc told me "'it wasn't a bad idea to stop using it every few months for a couple of weeks to give your body a break". He also said it wasn't necessary to monitor estrogen levels because the body will properly regulate it. Here is the real kicker. I asked him if you used Androgel for several years, and you stopped, would your natural production resume. His exact words, "I have no idea". I will be getting a new doc eventually, but for now I'm doing my own HRT :).

R.A.
05-19-2004, 08:11 AM
Quote******I wonder what your estro looked like *******

I have to get tests done again in a few months and I will post them here. But all I know is My doc told me my wifes T levels were higher than mine.

Prince
05-19-2004, 08:22 AM
Originally posted by JerseyDevil
There are some 'online' HRT clinics popping up, and some are crossing the line well past the grey area.


they will not be around long.

ZECH
05-19-2004, 08:43 AM
Originally posted by Robert ********
this is all bullshit. I thought the exact same thing when I read it. The guy is just wanting opinions on his cycle and is trying to hide it!

TrojanMan60563
05-19-2004, 09:12 AM
Hey JD thats kinda what I'm talking about. There is going to eventually be a new wave of HRT docs that are going to hook us up. They probably won't put you on a gram of test a week, but I think 200mg a week is not going to be uncommon. Now if we can only find a way to get insurance to cover the tab for some HGH Therapy :D Its kinda sad a doc is capable of giving you the gel stuff but doesn't even know what its doing to you, or what the effects of it are. He just knows when you have a blood test the numbers are closer to what they should be. What a idiot. As HRT becomes more common and it will catch on eventually there will be more knowlegeable people out there.

Mudge
05-19-2004, 10:22 AM
HRT guys that cycle come off and go back to their normal HRT dose, there is no post cycle :shrug:

Prince
05-19-2004, 10:47 AM
Originally posted by TrojanMan60563
Hey JD thats kinda what I'm talking about. There is going to eventually be a new wave of HRT docs that are going to hook us up. They probably won't put you on a gram of test a week, but I think 200mg a week is not going to be uncommon. Now if we can only find a way to get insurance to cover the tab for some HGH Therapy :D Its kinda sad a doc is capable of giving you the gel stuff but doesn't even know what its doing to you, or what the effects of it are. He just knows when you have a blood test the numbers are closer to what they should be. What a idiot. As HRT becomes more common and it will catch on eventually there will be more knowlegeable people out there.

as I said, if they do this they will be risking their medical license, and eventually get it revoked.

Dale Mabry
05-19-2004, 11:15 AM
Some of those online HRT clinics are no more than Joe Average trying to sell his gear. Some idiot goes on, fills out a questionnaire built to make him believe he is getting a prescription and boom, he gets the gear and feels he is safe because he went through a consultation with a "board certified doctor".

Mudge
05-19-2004, 12:31 PM
One clinic was already busted about a year ago.

Weatherlite
05-19-2004, 12:54 PM
this is all bullshit.

Actually no. Rob, if you take a look at my private profile (since you're Admin) you'll notice my email address. From that figure out what job I have and tell me if you think I'm actually using gear. I know, some of us do but they are playing a dangerous game. Our piss tests are solely oriented towards recreational drugs but it isn't hard at all to order one for gear use.

So, as for me being scared about being found out and trying to get advice on a cycle....nope. I am legitimately trying to find out all I can. As I said earlier, I'm new to the whole "gear" arena. I don't know a whole hell of a lot about it and what is considered what. I did research to find out what drugs did what when he considered me a candidate for HRT...THAT'S why I knew what the exact effects of each drug were.

So, if I knew all of this then why did I ask? Because I wasn't sure that this was appropriate for HRT. From what most of you are saying it sounds like this is a doc who's gear oriented and is trying to put me on a cycle. I know this isn't the "HRT forum" but bear with me for a moment. Users who are on HRT...do you ever cycle off of it? Mudge says no. Wouldn't staying on a permanent HRT regimen shut everything down? Wouldn't that be worse than cycling-even for legitimate HRT? If you do cycle legit HRT then shouldn't you use some sort of anti-estrogen for a PCT since your E levels will be high and your T will be rock bottom until your balls can start doing anything?

As for tests, I have had quite a few. I wouldn't say a battery of tests but enough to convince the doc at least. If I remember correctly the first doc checked T levels, estradiol and DHEA levels. When I asked for the referral the second doc also tested those as well as others after he confirmed low T. I remember one was for E-T ratio, one for LH and one for thyroid function. Don't know what the thyroid was for. There were a lot of other items on the sheets but I don't remember what they were for. I requested a copy of my lab results and should get them by Friday so if you want I can post them here.

So, on to another question...if this really is just a gear oriented doc what should I do? Would the foul be on me or on him-legally?

Also, no one mentioned what the anabolic range for testosterone is. Mudge said normal was 280-850ish but is he right? And if so then HRT to reach between 850 and 1100 wouldn't be "high" it would just be high-normal....right? Hey, just want to understand it all-while still playing devil's advocate just in case. lol

So, keep on thinking I'm either some doc who's trying to hide while getting info on dealing or that I'm a user who wants advice and is scared of getting caught. I'm not. But don't blow me off just because you think those things. I'm legit and I just want to be as informed as possible about what goes into my body. I can find facts all over the internet but they are just black and white. I'd like the opinions and experiences of seasoned users who can help me weed out the bullshit.

Mike

Prince
05-19-2004, 01:22 PM
If a doc has determined that you need HRT for whatever reason, primary or secondary hypogonadism, it is permanent, you do not cycle off that makes no sense.

brodus
05-19-2004, 02:01 PM
If a doc has determined that you need HRT for whatever reason, primary or secondary hypogonadism, it is permanent, you do not cycle off that makes no sense.

True-->HRT and gear cycles are miles apart. HRT you do forever, at low doses. Since you're diag. as hypogonadal, there is no point in letting yourself "recover," since you have miniscule test to start with. I'm surprised your Dr. didn't explain what HRT is to you, before whipping out the pen and writing you a serious gear stack scrip.

Also, Jersey posted about being on for the last three years straight.

The reason we reacted the way we did is for a variety of reasons, including:

1. Your "Cycle" is a gear cycle, has nothing to do with HRT

2. I've never heard of a doctor prescribing Clomid to males, with the slight possible exception of male breast cancer. I honestly don’t think it’s a legal, approved use for a Dr. to prescribe Clomid for post-cycle steroid therapy (esp. since Nolva works so much better ;)

3.
Ok, first let me say that I'm new to the whole idea of using gear.


If this is so then why not use Nolvadex during the two week off pre-PCT timeframe to stop all of that excess estrogen from binding first?

This is not a question that someone who is “new to gear” asks. You know way too much about estrogen binding, Nolva, etc., to be pretending like “what’s going on, my Doctor is prescribing me an ass-kicking ‘roid cycle and I don't know what to do." If you understand recptor site binding and such, you already have your answers.

4. You wandered onto a bodybuilding site to get info on PCT (and whether your PCT is long enough), which has everything to do with gear cycles and nothing to do with HRT.

5. You have changed your original question from "is my PCT correct" to "if this really is just a gear oriented doc what should I do?"


6. I think this is bullshit: “He said that this was due to the fact that at a normal dose I would use up enough T with my workouts that there wouldn't be the proper amount left for normal body functions” …and so his solution for “HRT” is a 10-week cycle of Test Prop and Deca?

I still think something smells like bullshit in a big way. Doctors who are in the practice of legitimate HRT don’t do this:
“He said that the test was the HRT but that since he knew I would end up gaining mass he wanted to add the nandrolone decanoate to help the connective tissues in the joints.”

Wow...my doctor tells me to use Glucosamine/Chondrotion...yours writes scrips for Deca just to "ease the joint pain" !?! Come on, man. Does your doctor also perscribe marijuana for life pain, and prostitutes for wife pain? I think your confusing "doctor" with "dealer"

And you can't even spell the chemical name for ALA, but you've been dead on for Test Cyp and Deca, and even understand the esterfication process...yet you're new to gear...

Var
05-19-2004, 02:04 PM
What's your "dr's" phone number? :hehe: j/k

Mudge
05-19-2004, 02:27 PM
Originally posted by Weatherlite
do you ever cycle off of it? Mudge says no. Wouldn't staying on a permanent HRT regimen shut everything down?

HRT = Hormonal Replacement Therapy, it is not a RECOUPERATION therapy it is REPLACEMENT.

They would be doing you a disservice if they were to put you on gear then take you off and try to recouperate. If you feel you had a reason to recouperate then they should be working on that, however unless you have run gear before there is likely no reason for your levels to be low other than genetics, and whatever is going on in your life which would affect that (stress, diet, etc).

You do NOT recouperate on HRT, it is FOR LIFE. If your thyroid is dead you dont come off it with a dead thyroid, its REPLACEMENT FOR LIFE.

We see where you are logging in from but it doesn't tell us your job (other than who you work for), and really it doesn't matter. HRT does not involve recouperation drugs. Most HRT patients are given an andro patch, injections when administered are almost always in-house not at home, weekly or biweekly, sometimes every third week. If you find a doc that will give you test to take at home in a shot, he or she is a pretty liberal minded doctor, and yes they exist.

Deca? That doesn't do anything for HRT, if you have no joint problems there is no reason to be pushing that on you, it sounds like this guy is asking to get popped for being prescription happy.

Use up test with your workouts? What Cracker Jack box did this guy get his sheepskin from.

TrojanMan60563
05-19-2004, 06:09 PM
lol...go mudge :lol:

JerseyDevil
05-19-2004, 06:29 PM
A true HRT doc will not cycle your dosages, but one thing not mentioned here is that the more advanced HRT docs DO prescribe HCG to keep the testicles operating.

Mudge
05-19-2004, 10:33 PM
Well I probably repated thing 3 times over, but basically HRT is HRT, there is no wishy washy cycling crap here. Your doc sounds really hokey, not much else to be said.

Very true, HCG is used for guys that want to keep their balls. HRT does not effect everyones nads, but the older you get, the more likely it will be an issue.

Weatherlite
05-20-2004, 11:27 AM
Ok, now a few things make a little more sense. I had never heard of HCG until I started researching this but even then I didn't pay it much attention because I didn't know what it was (never bothered to look up the acronym until now)

It sounds like this doc is just a gear happy guy and doesn't know what he's doing. If he truly wanted to keep my nads at least working as well as they are now he would prescribe HCG along with a test of some sort and the test wouldn't necessarily be injection it could be Androderm or some other patch. Gotcha there. Him cycling to "give the boys a chance to work a bit again" and adding clomid to kickstart em is a bullshit idea for me and is even a bit shady since clomid is a woman's drug. Do I have all of this right?

So, based upon everything you guys are telling me (at least when you're not flaming) I think I'm going to ask for a different doc. While I'd like to be able to have some legal gear I don't want it to be at the expense of a grey legal area and possibly losing my career.

However, just to defend myself a bit, I have to rebut a few comments.


This is not a question that someone who is “new to gear” asks. You know way too much about estrogen binding, Nolva, etc., to be pretending like “what’s going on, my Doctor is prescribing me an ass-kicking ‘roid cycle and I don't know what to do." If you understand recptor site binding and such, you already have your answers.

I knew about Nolva because I was considering using M1T about a month or two ago. Lots of folks who have used it claim that it shuts down the testicles hard and screws the whole E-T ratio up and that a PCT of Nolva, milk thistle and 6-OXO is advised. I'm no fool. I understand what drugs do once I have researched them. However, without experience or advice from those who have used, I can't compare two similar drugs. That's why I wasn't sure about the clomid vs nolva question I posed in the original post.


4. You wandered onto a bodybuilding site to get info on PCT (and whether your PCT is long enough), which has everything to do with gear cycles and nothing to do with HRT.

I didn't wander here. I've been a lurker for quite some time. I think I bookmarked this site 4 months ago. I just never registered cause I was too busy. Now that I have a concern over my health being busy is a lame excuse and I make time. I asked about the PCT yes, but I also asked about deca working for joints and if it truly was a legit reason to use it. I also never asked if the PCT was long enough....just about the difference between Nolva dn clomid and if the should both be used or not. Read before you post.


5. You have changed your original question from "is my PCT correct" to "if this really is just a gear oriented doc what should I do?"

Nope, never changed it. That question was answered and I simply posed a new one.


And you can't even spell the chemical name for ALA, but you've been dead on for Test Cyp and Deca, and even understand the esterfication process...yet you're new to gear...

Understanding the process is no biggie....pretty much the same for PH's. A methylated PH has similar effects as a methylated roid. Right? Since I've used PH's I read up on em first. Much of that applies to gear as well. And as for spelling....whoopity shit if I had a lapse? lipoic vs lipolitic (which is what I first wrote instead of the proper spelling of lipolytic with a Y) Lipolytic-as in referring to the fatty acids of the body. What is ALA? Alpha Lipoic Acid. I had a brain fart. Quit looking for something that's not there.


Wow...my doctor tells me to use Glucosamine/Chondrotion...yours writes scrips for Deca just to "ease the joint pain" !?!

Actually, G/C and grapeseed extract works slightly better supposedly. Oh yeah, one other thing...I never said the doc said it was for joint pain. Check the posts. He said it would help with joint functioning since it wouldn't be able to keep up with the increase in strenth. Don't put words in my mouth.

Also, one can know a little bit about how some things work and still be a bit ignorant of the whole story. For instance, I never understood why some "experts" recommended using an anti-aromitase when using PH's and some recommended NOT using them. After reading some of the posts here it became a bit more clear. A PH relys on a conversion to become either T or nor-T. An anti-aromitase takes these enzymes away so less PH is converted. Someone who uses gear doesn't need those enzymes since he/she's injecting the real deal. So now I understand that those who recommend using anti's for PH probably don't understand the way the body works in the first place.

Ok, enough of my bitching. To those few who offered advice, thank you! You've helped me make a decision on this. To those who keep looking for a conspiracy....the "behind the scenes" film of the making of the lunar module landing are in my top desk drawer and I'm never getting rid of them!!!!!!!! :rolleyes: Come get em if you dare! :D

Mike

ZECH
05-20-2004, 11:47 AM
31 Is also very young to need hrt...................

brodus
05-20-2004, 01:57 PM
To those who keep looking for a conspiracy....the "behind the scenes" film of the making of the lunar module landing are in my top desk drawer and I'm never getting rid of them!!!!!!!! Come get em if you dare!

That's funny Mike!

Glad you've kept your sense of humor through all of this-->you have to understand how it looks from our perspective, and that's why I made that list. Your situation is like one in a million.

Good luck, whatever you decide to do.

P.S. I'm not conspiracy theorist, but I have the original "flat earth" map in my desk, but I will never it out to the public...they wouldn't be able to handle the truth.

ZorroAzul
05-20-2004, 02:39 PM
Option C, Mike is a Cop, Fireman, FBI, CIA, etc... Government employee who wants to do a cycle but is terrified about losing his job. (I'd be as well)
So "just in case" everything went wrong, got caught and somehow the prosecutor found evidence of him researching about gear, it was an "honest inquire about HRT"
The HRT turned cycle is a pill too big to swallow for me.

So whatever it is Mike, good luck you've come to the right place, where we all support you on your search for bigger muscles, and we will not look down on you if you ever get busted at work. (I hope it never happens)