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View Full Version : Reversal of HPTA axis ...need expert input



hardasnails1973
05-18-2004, 06:21 AM
Ok doctor has given me hcg at 1,000 ius for 10 days then we are going to remeasure levels . Test is in the shitter and free testosterone isn;t no where near n range LH, FSH are in mid range but balls are stil on vacation. Now results no hyper thyroidism was found in several different test that were run. All this problem was caused by low testosterone from the start. I just found out i am very sensitive to deceases in test causes all my GI distress becuae of slowed nutrient assimulation, decreases muscle mass which caused body temperature to drop and slowed down my metabolic activities in doing so. Any I was reearching and found a study of HPTA reversal and it added nolvedx and clomid in as well. But this is the question. "from alll of the comments people prefer nolvedex over clomid for recovery. Is it better to go 40 mgs of nolvedes or go 20 mgs nolvedex /50 mgs of clomid for the duration of the therapy. i am also very prone to gyno as well so i was fguring n adding may be .5 mgs of aridex to play safe

Rauschgift
05-18-2004, 06:51 AM
I'm not quite sure what you are asking here but I'll take a whach at it. If I understand you correctly you are having trouble kick starting the old engine.... if that is correct why are you taking hcg? If you are trying to kick start your natural test production then Clomid is what you want to be taking. While it has been claimed that Clomid "stimulates" production of LH and therefore of testosterone, in fact Clomid’s activity is achieved not by stimulation of the hypothalamus and pituitary, but by blocking their inhibition by estrogen. This also helps combat the gyno that you are prone to. So in a "nut" shell if you are trying to restart natural test production STOP taking hcg and start with the Clomid.... I would go with 300mgs the first day and then 50mgs ed after that.

P.S. Nolva is basically the same thing as Clomid..it behaves in the same manner in all tissues, and is a mixed estrogen agonist/antagonist of the same type as Clomid.

hardasnails1973
05-18-2004, 06:55 AM
THis is the study I was following
http://www.basskilleronline.com/hpta_reversal.html

plus i have been shut down for 6 months

Mudge
05-18-2004, 07:00 AM
You want to be carefull with the arimidex, .5mg is quite a lot on HCG alone, your cholesterol levels and estrogen will be way out of whack.

20 N and 50 C is the "same" as 40 N, if I use 100mg of clomid for long periods (over a week) it messes me up, skin and emotionally.

There is evidence that controlling estrogen carefully on cycle will help avoid shutdown, I felt awesome when using adex and later femera my last cycle with HCG throughout. It was the first time I came off and "lost nothing."

hardasnails1973
05-18-2004, 07:44 AM
so go armidex at .5 every other day then be more reasonable.

Rauschgift
05-18-2004, 07:49 AM
Originally posted by hardasnails1973
THis is the study I was following
http://www.basskilleronline.com/hpta_reversal.html

plus i have been shut down for 6 months

I am not clear as to why you have been shut down for 6 months. Have you been running a cycle during that period?

hardasnails1973
05-18-2004, 08:04 AM
Stress emotional phyiscal (over traing) , lack of caloires, holiday depression (nov-dec), fina and winny with no PCT other then herbal. cycle actually ended in late ocober

ZorroAzul
05-18-2004, 08:36 AM
Rauschgift, your avatar grosses me out.

BCC
05-18-2004, 08:38 AM
Arimidex really shouldn't be used in PCT. You run the risk of driving estrogen too low. Healthy function of the axis does require estrogen.

Rauschgift
05-18-2004, 09:00 AM
Hmmmm that's a little beyond my level of knowledge. Have you seen this article by Bill Llewellyn on Avantlabs if not check it out might help. Cycle "T" Recovery (http://www.avantlabs.com/page.php?pageID=77&issueID=7)

hardasnails1973
05-18-2004, 10:09 AM
if i remember right clomid and nolvadex are also weak estrogens them selves.

Mudge
05-18-2004, 10:45 AM
Yep, they occupy the receptor site so that stronger estrogen can't bind, so adex is not really going to do anything special. I still think thats a lot, thats enough to avoid gyno on a fairly heavy cycle.

brodus
05-18-2004, 03:37 PM
So in a "nut" shell if you are trying to restart natural test production STOP taking hcg and start with the Clomid

This is total bullshit. Nolva is far superior at increasing free test (I'd give you 100 references, but I'm tired right now), and there is only one chemical mimics natural Leutenizing Hormone (LH), and that is HCG, and that is why taking it when you are supressed is essential. You can have all the natty test in the world, but if your LH levels don't jump and your balls aren't sensitized to LH pulses, you're going to be stuck with raisans. Be glad you have a scrip for HCG, I wish I could get some easily for PCT.

Mudge
05-18-2004, 05:46 PM
Well if the balls are up to capacity then clomid/nolvadex is fine, if the nuts are the size of peas I would continue with HCG.

brodus
05-18-2004, 05:57 PM
Agreed, Mudge.

He says his balls are on vacation, so if he's getting a scrip for HCG he's a lucky man, and he should take it.

Rauschgift
05-18-2004, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by Mudge
Well if the balls are up to capacity then clomid/nolvadex is fine, if the nuts are the size of peas I would continue with HCG.

I agree too... I was under the impression that his LH levels were fine and that it was the test levels he was talking about.

@ Brodus: I agree with most of what you said (very eloquently) accept the part about Nolva being "Far" superior I think that is a bit of an exageration.

hardasnails1973
05-19-2004, 12:07 PM
actuall my lh levels are in mid range same with FSH, but free test is in the shitter so to speak. dr told hcg 1,000 ius for 10 days, 50 gs clomid and 20 mgs nolvedex then retest. Now since I am doing sub injection. I have an idea they aren;t as fast acting as doing IM injections. been 2 days and don;t feel a damn thing. This has been causing all my problems from the start from muscle loss to constipation becuae of decrease blood circulation. Decrease circulation also explains hypothyroid symptoms as well. bascailly its male menopause at its worse ! Any idea when i start to feel the effects of HCG. A week -10 days ?

Mudge
05-19-2004, 12:27 PM
LH levels can be abnormally high and still not bring the nuts back for a very, very long time.

If you are not sexually active I see a difference with hCG in a single day. SubQ absorbtion is better with hCG/hGH for some reason.

hardasnails1973
05-19-2004, 12:38 PM
So i am on the right track then...

Mudge
05-19-2004, 12:41 PM
I think so, as long as you can avoid sex for awhile the balls will come back. Keep in touch with Nandi and such though, he is way more 'expert' than anyone else here I know of.