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usman
12-06-2004, 10:28 AM
I am around 190 lbs and have a lot of body fat but due to my height It doesnt show much.

I look like a big guy with good definition in the arms and shoulders but someone who has a bit of a bulge.

I have tried every thing under the sun - good diet (which makes me small), extra cardio (which again makes me lose muscle), EPHEDRINE(which worked pretty good) and CLEN (which also made me lose a lot of fat and made me look small).

Long story short: I think its time I tried some WInstrol / Anavar combo to lose all this water weight that I have and gain a little LBM (which I know will not come due to Winstrol but some hard lifting and heavy protein diet).

Ihave read this website and its interesting to see the different things that have happened to different people on Winny.
The guy who I might ask to hook me up swears that Winny has no effect on the balls and is safe to use.
Even if it does hurt the balls I plan to use Clomid PCT but will it hurt my hair and give me acne. I am not prone to acne as such but when ever I start working out heavy and eat proteins I have slight zit problems around the lips area.

So what do you think ? With this cycle I ll start some moderate cardio and like I said protein heavy diet.

What are experience with Anavar ?

Thanks,

ZECH
12-06-2004, 10:38 AM
Like Mudge stated in another thread today, ANYTHING that is anabolic or androgenic will supress HTPA. I started to post this earlier...........



Effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone treatment on the pituitary-testicular and GH axes in boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty.

Crowne EC, Wallace WH, Moore C, Mitchell R, Robertson WH, Holly JM, Shalet SM.

Department of Endocrinology, Christie Hospital Trust, Manchester, UK.

OBJECTIVE: To investigate the effect of low dose oxandrolone and testosterone on the pituitary-testicular and GH-IGF-I axes. DESIGN: Prospective double-blind placebo-controlled trial. PATIENTS: Sixteen boys with constitutional delay of growth and puberty (CDGP) with testicular volumes 4-6 ml were randomized to 3 months treatment: Group 1 (n = 5), daily placebo: Group 2 (n = 5), 2.5 mg oxandrolone daily or Group 3 (n = 6), 50 mg testosterone monthly intramuscular injections with assessment (growth, pubertal development and overnight hormone profiles) at 0, 3, 6 and 12 months. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: LH and GH profiles (15-minute samples) were analysed by peak detection (Pulsar), Fourier transformation and autocorrelation. Testosterone levels were measured hourly and insulin, SHBG, IGF-I, and IGFBP-3 levels at 0800 h. Statistical analysis was by multivariate analysis of variance for repeated measures. RESULTS: LH and testosterone parameters increased significantly with time in all 16 (LH AUC, P < 0.001; peak amplitude, P = 0.02; number of peaks, P = 0.02; testosterone AUC, P = 0.02; morning testosterone, P = 0.002). In Group 2, however, LH and testosterone parameters decreased at 3 months followed by a rebound increase at 6 and 12 months. SHBG levels were markedly reduced at 3 months (P = 0.006) and a wider range of dominant GH frequencies was present although GH AUC was not increased until 6 months, with an increase in GH pulse frequency but not amplitude. IGF-I levels were increased at both 3 and 12 months. In Group 3, pituitary-testicular suppression was not apparent, but GH levels increased with an increase in GH amplitude at 3 and 12 months. CONCLUSION: Oxandrolone transiently suppressed the pituitary-testicular axis and altered GH pulsatility. Testosterone increased GH via amplitude modulation.
__________________

LAM
12-06-2004, 10:41 AM
Winstrol and Anavar and both 17aa's, I would not take both at the same time.

I would be interested in seeing what these diets you have been on look like...

usman
12-06-2004, 10:41 AM
this seems very technical (lol) and honestly I dont get a thing.

and btw what does HPTA stand for. I am pretty good at researching the web and getting my answers but with so many different versions of what happens like all people I get confused.

LAM
12-06-2004, 10:44 AM
HPTA - Hypothalmus Pituitary Testicular Axis

DOMS
12-06-2004, 10:54 AM
this seems very technical (lol) and honestly I dont get a thing.

and btw what does HPTA stand for. I am pretty good at researching the web and getting my answers but with so many different versions of what happens like all people I get confused.
This is the part where Premier would say I should flame you. :hot:
But I'll be a bit nicer than that. :)

If you don't know what HPTA is, you shouldn't being doing any PH/AAS. Yeah, that sucks. But the good thing is that you can learn and them come back and ask any non-basic questions!

Start with the sticky at the stop of the supplements section. Ah hell, here it is: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=27368

It cover pro-hormones and pro-steroids, but it should be applicable to this forum in about a month. :)

And really, don't feel bad, I asked questions before I knew what PCT is. Yeah, I got flamed. :)

usman
12-06-2004, 10:58 AM
Diets (i think pretty clean)

Before breakfast: 2 ephedrine and 2 gugglebolic
Morning breakfast: 1 packet oatmeal in skim milk and a protein shake with 3 endotest
second meal: either protein shake in milk or water / tuna with fruit
third meal: protein shake in water or milk plus 3 endotest
fourth meal: 3 - 4 eggs whole with whole wheat pita or toast
fifth meal (post workout): protein shake with creatine and 3 more endotest
last meal: lean beef with whole wheat pita
I sleep 2 hours after i eat last meal and take some ZMA before.

Workouts: one body part a day and 3 - 4 times a week 15-20 minutes cardio (though it tends to be 15 minutes most of the time)

ZECH
12-06-2004, 11:17 AM
The study is from pub-med. It shows that Var does have a supression on HPTA. And the longer it stays supressed, the longer it takes for LH to react. That is why it is a very good idea to use HCG during cycle.

LAM
12-06-2004, 11:38 AM
Diets (i think pretty clean)

Before breakfast: 2 ephedrine and 2 gugglebolic
Morning breakfast: 1 packet oatmeal in skim milk and a protein shake with 3 endotest
second meal: either protein shake in milk or water / tuna with fruit
third meal: protein shake in water or milk plus 3 endotest
fourth meal: 3 - 4 eggs whole with whole wheat pita or toast
fifth meal (post workout): protein shake with creatine and 3 more endotest
last meal: lean beef with whole wheat pita
I sleep 2 hours after i eat last meal and take some ZMA before.

Workouts: one body part a day and 3 - 4 times a week 15-20 minutes cardio (though it tends to be 15 minutes most of the time)

that diet is horrible...

to many shakes and not enough protein in general. whole food proteins souces have a much higher thermogenic effect than protein shakes. there are no nutritous complex carbs, no fiber and almost no fat in your diet. low fat diets equal low test production. at least 20% of your daily caloric intake should come from fats. with 50% of those fats being monounsaturated, 25% saturated and the rest from Omega 3 and 6 fatty acids.

diet is 70% of this game. I think you need to work on your diet before turning to anabolics...

usman
12-06-2004, 11:50 AM
LAM .... thank you for your input ! You make sense. Yes you are right ! This diet could use more fats.... Fish oils are going to be part of my diet from now on !

All the other guys .. THANK YOU !

By the way what does flaming mean ? Does that mean I was about to be banned.
and what does BUMP mean (in forum lingo).

ZECH
12-06-2004, 11:57 AM
Flaming is guys giving someone a hard time for not researching first.
Bump means to push a thread to the top of a forum to hopefully get more replies.

PreMier
12-06-2004, 06:14 PM
This is the part where Premier would say I should flame you. :hot:
But I'll be a bit nicer than that. :)



Damn, I was waiting for you to be turned :evil:

DOMS
12-06-2004, 06:23 PM
PreMier: cfs3, you do not yet realize your importance. You have only begun to discover your posting power. Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined posting strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the IM forums.

cfs3: I'll never join you.


:D

gococksDJS
12-06-2004, 06:26 PM
PreMier: cfs3, you do not yet realize your importance. You have only begun to discover your posting power. Join me, and I will complete your training. With our combined posting strength, we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the IM forums.

cfs3: I'll never join you.


:D
:haha: (http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/misc.php?do=getsmilies&wysiwyg=1&forumid=19#) hahaha. the force is strong with this one. Tired I am, Rest I will...

PreMier
12-06-2004, 06:29 PM
:lol: Give it time, you will succumb to the dark ways.

Supermans Daddy
12-06-2004, 08:30 PM
Winstrol and Anavar and both 17aa's, I would not take both at the same time.

I would be interested in seeing what these diets you have been on look like...
I've done'em both var 30mg/winnie 50 mg everyday 8 weeks.Wit proper Liver protection, no problem. I feel from my experience wit these both stacked and alone ,that I don't think either one will make ya lose weight. I think that at least for me, when and only when my bodyfat is low enough I get a harder kinda look. I mean I think of shit weird away but hard is a lil different than dry and cut. To me thats kinda how masteron, or halotestin effects me as oppossed to hard and cut from Winnie or var. But they both depend on BF% and DIET !!!!!!!!!!!! But thats just how I swing Homey! Peace n Love

Mudge
12-06-2004, 08:52 PM
Wow that is a starvation diet.

I just read about a guy only eating ONCE a day who was 305 pounds as a teenager. Not only did he eat the wrong foods, but he never ate breakfast because he overate at night.

6, good clean meals a day coupled with working out will help change your 190 from fatty to more muscular.

If drugs did ALL the work here, you would rebound when you came off because you are eating the same.

All of your carbs are crap carbs, most likely including your processed oatmeal packet. Flavored or not, instant oatmeals have an inferior GI index than old fashioned oats. At a mere 1 packet its probably not critical, but you also take in milk which is crap for a lot of us who dont have magical metabolisms.