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19-chief
05-15-2005, 10:42 AM
closing in on the end of my first cycle... and i'm about to purchase my next two soon. i have become comfortable with the shots and was thinking of doing two EOD cycles of test prop and masteron; one to bulk and one to cut... what do you guys think?

Cardinal
05-15-2005, 10:46 AM
I would be interested to see your results. Have you ruled out using tren w/the prop instead?

19-chief
05-15-2005, 10:47 AM
no, not necessarily. but i've some nasty stuff about the trenbalone.

19-chief
05-15-2005, 10:48 AM
why? have you used it? if so, did you like it?

Tough Old Man
05-15-2005, 11:00 AM
why? have you used it? if so, did you like it?
Chief I've used the tren and Prop on a cycle here about 3 months ago. I only use 100mg/eod of ea and it worked great. Helps cut fat and adds some strength.

19-chief
05-15-2005, 11:04 AM
Chief I've used the tren and Prop on a cycle here about 3 months ago. I only use 100mg/eod of ea and it worked great. Helps cut fat and adds some strength.
that's good to know... so, was it a cutter then?
any sides to speak of?

Tough Old Man
05-15-2005, 11:13 AM
that's good to know... so, was it a cutter then?
any sides to speak of?
sure was. I was only taking in 2200 cal's a day and strength was way down. so i used it to futher cut and add a little strength. 4 Weeks only

19-chief
05-15-2005, 11:22 AM
any sides to speak of?
?

Cardinal
05-15-2005, 11:37 AM
Why I suggested it is b/c of its reputation as a great strength builder and fairly well established thermogenic potential. The sides scare me also. That is why I plan on using a short 4-6 week cycle when I finally run it. Right now I am planning on cutting androgen free for 2-4 weeks, then running a strength cycle with tren.

Tren seems to be a great example of a steroid that is more result producing, but also much higher in side effects for some. The only way I will know what sides I get is by trying it.

LAM
05-15-2005, 11:47 AM
closing in on the end of my first cycle... and i'm about to purchase my next two soon. i have become comfortable with the shots and was thinking of doing two EOD cycles of test prop and masteron; one to bulk and one to cut... what do you guys think?

prop/masteron good for cutting not so good for bulking. you need something more anabolic in the mix. how long would you run the bulker for ?

19-chief
05-15-2005, 11:51 AM
i was thinking of using blacklabel eod for 30cc's each... 60 days.

LAM
05-15-2005, 12:28 PM
i was thinking of using blacklabel eod for 30cc's each... 60 days.

maybe add in some NPP with the test/masteron for the bulker

19-chief
05-15-2005, 12:34 PM
how much? how long? how would i work it in?
any extra ai/serms i might need for the npp??? bromo???

Cardinal
05-15-2005, 12:39 PM
You could also just run another long ester bulker if you wanted using different roids to kickstart etc. If you are in a position to bulk after you end your time off...

I don't know if I would really want masteron on a bulker anyhow. You could just save it for the cutter and run all bulking steroids. Or just run the masteron at the very end to dry you out a little.

If it is the same for npp that it is for tren, a lot of ppl recommend b6, bromo, nolva/arimidex/letro type stuff. A lot of extra stuff to help prevent gyno if you ask me.

19-chief
05-15-2005, 12:45 PM
i was just concerned with the idea of prolactin gyno... thus bromo.
i've lurking over at irontrybe and heard from other that the hardness from the masteron along with test prop can prove successful for a bulk or cut... just tweak the calories and cardio.
i've also considered test e/c with prop to start and finish plus eq for the tendons/ joints. that would be the next logical step, honestly. i know what test e and eq can do and i've gotten no sides so far. i guess i just want something that when you pin, kicks in fast and hard... and the prop would provide that.

gococksDJS
05-15-2005, 01:01 PM
. i guess i just want something that when you pin, kicks in fast and hard... and the prop would provide that. dbol kicks in fast and hard, and is a great way to start off a bulker.

LAM
05-15-2005, 01:02 PM
i was just concerned with the idea of prolactin gyno

technically there is no such thing. with out having elevated estrogen levels you can't get gyno

I just don't see gaining a lot of LBM from a cycle high in androgens.

19-chief
05-15-2005, 01:37 PM
dbol kicks in fast and hard, and is a great way to start off a bulker.
capt poopiepants, :laugh: i've considered that too. i don't know why it's not high on my short list of potential compounds.

19-chief
05-15-2005, 01:40 PM
technically there is no such thing. with out having elevated estrogen levels you can't get gyno

i thought that was the type of gyno that occurs for some on nandrolone, sorry.

Tough Old Man
05-15-2005, 01:49 PM
?

Sides for me NONE

LAM
05-15-2005, 02:05 PM
i thought that was the type of gyno that occurs for some on nandrolone, sorry.

prolactin levels do increase from deca and tren but with out elevated estrogen levels also gyno can't form. so you use bromo to keep prolactin in check and nolvadex on hand incase estrogen builds up

Tough Old Man
05-15-2005, 02:09 PM
prolactin levels do increase from deca and tren but with out elevated estrogen levels also gyno can't form. so you use bromo to keep prolactin in check and nolvadex on hand incase estrogen builds up
How you doing " T " Didn't you once tell me that vit b-6 is also good for prolactin levels when doing tren?

Cardinal
05-15-2005, 02:11 PM
Sides for me NONE

Wow. No increase in aggression, loss of libido, gyno symptoms, hair shedding, joint troubles. Blood work came back okay. No increased sweating at night. No tren cough. Nada? If I were you, I would probably be running that stuff more often in that case.

19-chief
05-15-2005, 02:29 PM
technically there is no such thing. with out having elevated estrogen levels you can't get gyno

I just don't see gaining a lot of LBM from a cycle high in androgens.
so, for a bulk should i just stick to stacking any form of test with something that has anabolic and estrognic attributes?
test + methandrostenolone
or test + nandrolone
or test + boldenone

LAM
05-15-2005, 02:37 PM
so, for a bulk should i just stick to stacking any form of test with something that has anabolic and androgenic attributes?
test + methandrostenolone
or test + nandrolone
or test + boldenone

yup...remember, anabolics for increases in muscle mass and androgens for strength/cutting. the only androgen that I would say can be used for both bulking or cutting would be tren.

I have just never seen or heard of anyone using androgens with a hypocaloric diet and gaining a significant amount of LBM...plus you also have to remember that generally you will see more sides (acne, BPH, etc.) with heavy androgens than with heavy anabolics...

Tough Old Man
05-15-2005, 03:59 PM
Wow. No increase in aggression, loss of libido, gyno symptoms, hair shedding, joint troubles. Blood work came back okay. No increased sweating at night. No tren cough. Nada? If I were you, I would probably be running that stuff more often in that case.
Well My wife might say i was a little agressive but that her oppinion. No night sweat or cough.
Felt really good on it compared to Test, Deca and D-bol

LAM
05-15-2005, 07:22 PM
19...I was also thinking if you wanted to stick to prop/masteron for inj's you could also throw in some dbol for 6 weeks to make that stack a little more anabolic..

TrojanMan60563
05-15-2005, 07:45 PM
Chief if you are cool doing EOD injects I would consider doing this

1-8 Test Prop 150mg EOD
1-4 30mg ED Dbol
5-8 Masteron (not sure what the ideal dose would be)

First 4 weeks you could do a clean bulk and then cut the last 4 weeks. I've read masteron works best if you are in the single digit BF.

19-chief
05-16-2005, 06:16 AM
19...I was also thinking if you wanted to stick to prop/masteron for inj's you could also throw in some dbol for 6 weeks to make that stack a little more anabolic..
that sounds pretty good too. that stack would probably go for 60 days with the first 42 on dbol as well... would i end up dropping a bunch of water weight in weeks 7 and 8?
honestly, i don't like the idea of any oral for 6 weeks... and blood work has been hard to get. should i have any concerns with orals?

19-chief
05-16-2005, 06:28 AM
Chief if you are cool doing EOD injects I would consider doing this

1-8 Test Prop 150mg EOD
1-4 30mg ED Dbol
5-8 Masteron (not sure what the ideal dose would be)

First 4 weeks you could do a clean bulk and then cut the last 4 weeks. I've read masteron works best if you are in the single digit BF.
lower dosed for 4 weeks is a little more appealing... but masty for only 4 weeks? i think doses are 75-100mg EOD... i was gonna run 100.

19-chief
05-16-2005, 06:45 AM
Wow. No increase in aggression, loss of libido, gyno symptoms, hair shedding, joint troubles. Blood work came back okay. No increased sweating at night. No tren cough. Nada? If I were you, I would probably be running that stuff more often in that case.
all the things i'm scared of encountering. the wife's already blaming testosterone... i admit: i'm hornier than usual and if i don't get it, i get huffy-puffy. but that's about it.

aggression -comes with the territory
loss of libido -asbolutely not
gyno -hell no
hair loss -ain't got none anyway
joint troubles -that's why i'd like to keep eq/npp in the mix
night sweats -if the results could be justified, okay
tren cough -no thanks

Mudge
05-16-2005, 07:01 AM
I dont get tren cough much, and I still believe its when it enters the lungs/bloodstream. Not a pleasant experience when its a bad episode.

19-chief
05-16-2005, 07:11 AM
is the dbol enough to kick things off if i ran test e/c and eq again? maybe i could close with t-prop? i mean, if i'm "ON", i wanna feel and grow like i'm "ON".

TrojanMan60563
05-16-2005, 09:43 PM
lower dosed for 4 weeks is a little more appealing... but masty for only 4 weeks? i think doses are 75-100mg EOD... i was gonna run 100.

150mg EOD doesn't seem too high...you can do 100mg EOD instead....masteron is fast acting so it should kick in right away...you could run it longer but I don't see how test-dbol-masteron is a great combo....the dbol would hide any hardness from the masteron.

gococksDJS
05-16-2005, 11:06 PM
is the dbol enough to kick things off if i ran test e/c and eq again? maybe i could close with t-prop? i mean, if i'm "ON", i wanna feel and grow like i'm "ON". If your running something like 500mg test EW, 800mg EQ EW and 25mg Dbol ED, you will grow and put on some lbs. if you eat to grow. I personally don't see the reason to switch from enanthate to prop.

LAM
05-16-2005, 11:18 PM
If your running something like 500mg test EW, 800mg EQ EW and 25mg Dbol ED, you will grow and put on some lbs. if you eat to grow. I personally don't see the reason to switch from enanthate to prop.

a lot of people like to switch to short esters at the end of the cycle to make PCT timing easier..

Mudge
05-16-2005, 11:23 PM
Yep, I will be doing that myself whenever I come off.

LAM
05-16-2005, 11:45 PM
Yep, I will be doing that myself whenever I come off.

if I ever come off I will probably do the same thing.. :laugh:

19-chief
05-17-2005, 05:23 AM
Yep, I will be doing that myself whenever I come off.
mudge, what are you on right now? test and tren?

19-chief
05-17-2005, 05:23 AM
if I ever come off I will probably do the same thing.. :laugh:
sounds like hrt forever.

19-chief
05-17-2005, 05:30 AM
ok. how about:
1-4 40mg dbol/ed
1-10 600mg test e/e3.5d
1-10 500mg eq/e3.5d (low dose is more for injury prevention)
9-12 100mg test p/eod
2-12 300-500iu hcg/e5d
12-15 pct with nolva and tribestan

Pirate!
05-17-2005, 05:55 AM
My $.02 about that cycle:

Keep the Dbol to 25-30 mg/day and run it for 5 weeks
Start the prop after the test e is done, not before--start with low doses and work up to 175 mg EOD just before pct.
Forget Tribestan. Your money would be better spent on 7-oxo or 7-OH (cortisol blockers)

If you do use Deca, and are concerned about prolactin, get some Cabergoline (http://www.researchchemist.com/cgi-bin/netstorez/netstorez.cgi?action=showcategory&nsz_category=Cabergoline) . It will help with PCT, you could also consider proviron with deca.

19-chief
05-17-2005, 06:05 AM
my source only sells them in 40mg tabs... what to do?
what do you mean, "when the test e is done?" how long after last test e shot would you say? how gradual and and for how long would you suggest? got any thread or info on this?

Mudge
05-17-2005, 11:01 AM
If they are tabs cut it up into 4s

Tha Don
05-17-2005, 02:57 PM
My $.02 about that cycle:

Keep the Dbol to 25-30 mg/day and run it for 5 weeks
Start the prop after the test e is done, not before--start with low doses and work up to 175 mg EOD just before pct.
Forget Tribestan. Your money would be better spent on 7-oxo or 7-OH (cortisol blockers)

If you do use Deca, and are concerned about prolactin, get some Cabergoline (http://www.researchchemist.com/cgi-bin/netstorez/netstorez.cgi?action=showcategory&nsz_category=Cabergoline) . It will help with PCT, you could also consider proviron with deca.
i'd agree with that

i would also recommend deca/NPP @ 300-400mg/wk instead of the EQ

JMO

redspy
05-17-2005, 03:25 PM
ok. how about:
1-4 40mg dbol/ed
1-10 600mg test e/e3.5d
1-10 500mg eq/e3.5d (low dose is more for injury prevention)
9-12 100mg test p/eod
2-12 300-500iu hcg/e5d
12-15 pct with nolva and tribestan
I've seen very similar cycle plans, my only suggestion is adding in the prop from Week 10-13, which obviously pushes out your cycle by a week. I believe the active life of prop is around 4.5 days so you'd probably want to start PCT 3-4 days after the last shot.

19-chief
05-18-2005, 06:33 AM
I've seen very similar cycle plans, my only suggestion is adding in the prop from Week 10-13, which obviously pushes out your cycle by a week. I believe the active life of prop is around 4.5 days so you'd probably want to start PCT 3-4 days after the last shot.
red, do you remember that riod calc i posted awhile back? did you ever get it to go beyond 8 weeks? i bet i could use that to find an affective taper between the enanthate and the prop if i could project beyond 8 weeks.

19-chief
05-18-2005, 06:38 AM
if not, when and at what doses do you think i should introduce the prop into the cycle? do you think i should start the prop at a low dose and increase eo injection as the active enanthate wains? for example: 50->50->75->75->100->100->up to 150mg/eod