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ZECH
06-07-2005, 06:31 AM
For anyone that knew him or saw him on the boards, he passed away June 3 from CHF. He also had kidney failure and was on dialysis. RIP bro!
Here is a post he made in DEC about his condition.
http://www.massmuscleinc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1986

LAM
06-07-2005, 06:49 AM
For anyone that knew him or saw him on the boards, he passed away June 3 from CHF. He also had kidney failure and was on dialysis. RIP bro!
Here is a post he made in DEC about his condition.
http://www.massmuscleinc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1986

can't view the thread w/o being a member. can you cut and paste it

ZECH
06-07-2005, 07:40 AM
The ugly side of steroide use.

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Alot of you people know me, but for those who don't i'm a 2 time state middleweight Pa State champion in the NPC. I also took it to the next level 2 times competing at Nationals for the allmighty PRO card. I recently was diagnosed with Renal Kidney Failure, that means basically my kidney are shutting down. I need dialysis 3 times a week for 4 hours a session to stay alive. Kidney problems do not run in my family, nobody in my family has ever had a kidney related issue.
You have to realize there are consiquenses to your actions with AAS, do not think that you are invinsible.
I was recently prepping for the state championships, i figured this is my year for the overall state title Mr Pennsyvania and it was balls to the wall. About 6 weeks out i started throwing up every day sometimes 2 times a day, my ankles were holding water and my skin was turning very pale and i was so fatigued but i pushed on anyway thinking i was being a pussy. Finally it got so bad i could harly breathe and was truely afraid that something very serious was wrong. I went to the doctor for bloodwork, he sent it out stat the next thing i know he called me and wanted me in the hospital NOW. I went to intensive care where they gave me 4 units of blood and blood pressure meds, turns out my kidney's where shutting of and have been doing so for some time now. I went from prepping for a state title to having a doctor sitting in front of me telling me "you need a transplant". If i would have had bloodwork and payed attention to it i would more than likey not been in this grim position. Nobody talks about the bad side of steroids on these boards, so i just wanted you to know what you are getting into. I don't mean to lecture, i was asked to write this piece to make people realize there is a bad side about steroids that most people are in denial about.
Thank you for listening and hopefully i can help some of you from being in the same position as me some day.

LAM
06-07-2005, 07:55 AM
that sucks. I wonder what kind of orals and at was dosages he had been running over the years

Tha Don
06-07-2005, 08:08 AM
RIP

what is CHF (heart failiure i'm guessing)? any idea of the sorts of cycles/doses he was running?

ZECH
06-07-2005, 08:37 AM
Congestive heart failure. I don't know anything other than what he posted in his post really. I saw this post several months ago and got an e-mail from SBI that there were taking up a collection for his family. He was 38 years old.

Tha Don
06-07-2005, 08:56 AM
Congestive heart failure. I don't know anything other than what he posted in his post really. I saw this post several months ago and got an e-mail from SBI that there were taking up a collection for his family. He was 38 years old.
damm, thats just too young, makes you wonder don't it?

is this 'CHF' blamed on his steroid use? i'm guessing the kidney problems are, however i've just finished reading Flex Wheeler's auto-bio and he said that doctors swore that his kidney problems had absolutely nothing to do with his steroid use

brodus
06-07-2005, 08:57 AM
Wow...RIP. Seems like a lot of BBrs have been dying lately.

Once again, this emphasizes the serious need for regular bloodwork, self-control, ancillaries, a pharmaceutical game plan, and a dose of reality if you're going to cycle.

ZECH
06-07-2005, 10:13 AM
damm, thats just too young, makes you wonder don't it?

is this 'CHF' blamed on his steroid use? i'm guessing the kidney problems are, however i've just finished reading Flex Wheeler's auto-bio and he said that doctors swore that his kidney problems had absolutely nothing to do with his steroid use
By reading his post, I assume he was taking lots of gear, including diurectics and this is more than likely what caused his kidney problems. Then when the water built up in his system, it caused the CHF.
I really liked Brodus's post. You need to stop and think. I have seen several posts on several boards today by big guys that are on gear and such statements as "maybe it's time to give it up" have been said. If you are going to play the game, you need to do much more than just the cycle and PCT. You need to keep a check on all blood levels, including lipids, liver values and kidney function.

I don't care how big you can get, dying is not worth it at such an early age.

musclepump
06-07-2005, 10:19 AM
That sucks. I fear it may have been due to a lack of intelligence when using gear, but it's still dissapointing. RIP

P-funk
06-07-2005, 10:22 AM
wow, that sucks. Only 38. :(

brodus
06-07-2005, 10:33 AM
By dose of reality, too, I mean coming to terms with your genetics and you "safe" potential. In other words, there is a limit to how big you can get based on your body type/genes and still be healthy, and pushing it for the sake of an unrealisitc image of yourself is not good. I think this is the first step in making your cycle decisions and training goals.

Mudge
06-07-2005, 10:52 AM
A well known guy on the boards was pissing blood on dbol, for some reason he is extra sensative to it. He is a legit 600 bencher, and was not using a lot of the stuff either. His buddy who is an NPC competitor was hospitalized after a run with some halo.

But of course all those dbol-only cycle pussies wont touch needles because they dont want to feel like dirty drug addicts :rolleyes: I want to see them tell the doctor that they thought it was just vitamins when they are in the ER.

musclepump
06-07-2005, 12:39 PM
"They told me it was fiber."

Tha Don
06-07-2005, 01:58 PM
But of course all those dbol-only cycle pussies wont touch needles because they dont want to feel like dirty drug addicts :rolleyes:
tell me about it, i know of about 7 juicers at my gym, 3 noticably big guys, and 4 of them are smaller/weaker than me (well 1 is bigger but he is a full-blown mesomorph, great genetics!!), but its no suprise the smaller guys are the oral only guys that are afraid of needles and the big guys all run shots

there is a UK forum called muscletalk.co.uk where someone else starts a dbol only cycle every day! seriously there are about 20 dbol only threads on the first page alone, 'dbol question? dbol for first cycle? how much dbol should i take? dbol/winny? dbol/drol? dbol side effects? dbol this... dbol that... i'm getting sick of hearing the word dbol in the title of every other post!' it seems like dbol only cycles are the most popular cycles these days, what a bunch of %@*&ing wimps!

brodus
06-07-2005, 03:53 PM
I always tought Test or High-Dose 4AD (either pinned or trans) should be the bedrock of every cycle.

I never feel good when my test levels plummet.

DBol only seems like you'd lose everything as soon as you come off.

Only exception I've found is Superdrol. Kept everything.

min0 lee
06-07-2005, 03:59 PM
R.I.P.

ZECH
06-15-2005, 08:52 AM
Here is some quotes I run across that he said he thought contributed to his problems.

Q: If you don't mind me asking how long have you been on AAS and which compound in particular did they attribute to kidney failure?

MWC: I personally loved the 17-alpha alkylated pills, anadrol, d-bol, winny, halo and I also believe trenbolone played a role. I would like to add that I did pop anti inflamatories when sore and also did the eca stack since 1991. As far as aas I have been doing it since 1996 with little time off.

Q: Do you feel diuretics played a role?

MWC: i believe it was all of the above. This entire thing started after i went 21 hours before a show without water and used wine and lasix to dry me out. After the show I had so much liquid and such a bad rebound I believe that was the straw that broke the camels back. I continued to juice and figured it would go away. You can only put so much toxic shit in your body before it says enough. We never think it will happen to us. I just want to tell you guys that it does happen for real and to be careful as hell. My bodybuilding days are over and I will never step on a national stage again, but hey I'm lucky to be alive. I thank the nurses at dialysis everytime I go, because in a sense they are keeping me alive.

Competition pictures ~ www.beyondmass.com/forums/pictures

P-funk
06-15-2005, 12:23 PM
the pics link doesn't work.

ZECH
06-15-2005, 01:11 PM
Here are some............
http://www.beyondmass.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10029

repeej
06-15-2005, 01:22 PM
it seems like dbol only cycles are the most popular cycles these days, what a bunch of %@*&ing wimps!

Dude...how about toning it down a notch. You've been doing alot of trash talking about oral only cycles ever since starting your first injectable cycle. It wasn't long ago you were asking all kinds of questions about orals and now you're the injectible expert. Give it a rest already... :blah:

P-funk
06-15-2005, 01:37 PM
Here are some............
http://www.beyondmass.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10029


thanks DG.

He did have a solid physique.

soxmuscle
06-15-2005, 02:16 PM
RIP MWC. Hey Mudge, Dg -- how does something like this make you feel? Obviously you guys are alot smarter about AAS use than he had been, but do you have second thoughts about ever starting in the first place?

ZECH
06-15-2005, 07:01 PM
I can only speak for myself. I don't go overboard because I can't. Bad genetics and I already have HBP and my HDL is always on the border line and there are heart problems on both sides of my family. My father has had triple bypass and has diabetes. I really think most people don't realize what potential problems they could have. Some may get them and some may be lucky and never get them. That is why it is important to keep check on your health. Sure it makes you think. I think more so at my age of 41. You just have to weigh it for yourself and see if you think it is worth the risk or not. Although I think this guy was on more than I will ever think about doing. You still hate to see anyone go like this. I didn't know MWC, but seems like he was a good guy from what I read. I think this makes three in a couple months. Dangerousgrounds passed not too long before this and I saw him on several boards I visit.

Witmaster
06-15-2005, 09:06 PM
He was 38 years old.What really hammers that home for me is the fact I just turned 38 in May. It's sobering to think that he died so young.

brodus
06-15-2005, 11:59 PM
Yeah guys--I'm only 29 and I my girlfriend makes fun of me for all the ancillaries I take...it's just my health is not something I'm into chancing, esp. since I know I'll never compete on a pro level.

I think sometimes the side effects/undesired effects of steroid use are downlplayed...you have to remember that most pros have access to bloodwork whenever they want it...whereas it costs us $65+ per time to get a full profile.

Kind of like guitars--why buy a $3000 Gibson if you're playing open mic nights, right?

GFR
06-16-2005, 12:21 AM
Very sad and the reason I tell the young kids and the people who have only worked out for 3 or 4 years not to take steroids. 38 and nobody has ever heard of him....killing himself for a $20 trophy..pathetic. You really have to be amazing naturally and have a great chance to make allot of money if you think you should roid up.

Mudge
06-16-2005, 07:07 AM
RIP MWC. Hey Mudge, Dg -- how does something like this make you feel? Obviously you guys are alot smarter about AAS use than he had been, but do you have second thoughts about ever starting in the first place?

No real second thoughts, but it reminds me I am going to be getting out of this game at some point. It also reminds me that orals can really beat the crap out of some people. I mentioned a big guy who was pissing blood on modest dbol doses, he is a legit shirtless 600 bencher so he is no stereotypical softy with nerdly genetics.

It also reminds me, I need to get my blood work done. You can take cranberry extract to help with the kidneys, as well as drinking lots of water. This keeps the lining of the kidneys smooth and fluid flowing so contaminents can't stick to it as easily.

soxmuscle
06-19-2005, 11:00 PM
Thanks for the response, guys. Is it as addictive as it is made out to be? How many cycles have you done in your life, and whatd you see the best gains with?

Tha Don
06-20-2005, 06:47 AM
i'm on my first cycle, and i think i'm hooked already! :rocker:

brodus
06-20-2005, 10:36 AM
Is what addictive?

soxmuscle
06-20-2005, 12:01 PM
Is what addictive?
hmm... were in the anabolic zone... lets think... ;)

Witmaster
06-20-2005, 12:43 PM
No, Anabolic Steroids are not addictive.

LAM
06-20-2005, 01:40 PM
No, Anabolic Steroids are not addictive.

just like anything else some people can become physchologically addicted to the effects of steroids

brodus
06-20-2005, 01:45 PM
I think they are, but I'm an addictive person. I like things that make me feel good, and have a hard time pretending they don't make me feel better than I normally do.

soxmuscle
06-20-2005, 01:58 PM
No, anabolic steroids (http://anabolic-steroids.ironmagazine.com/anabolic-steroid-books.html) are not addictive.
Obviously they are addictive, but I was just wondering how addictive they are. People who smoke say they want to stop, but its just so addicting. With steroids, do people get to the point where they want to stop but the cravings are just too much to handle?

brodus
06-20-2005, 02:47 PM
I think it depends on the person.

Same goes for smoking. I know people who have quit cold turkey after 10 years, and then people who seem to never be able to quit.

I don't know about steroid cravings, per se, but I know you (on a cycle with a large testosterone source) feel very, very good, need less sleep, have better sex, and lift more weights. If you have any deep-seated doubts in these areas, you can see a potential for abuse.

Witmaster
06-20-2005, 05:17 PM
just like anything else some people can become physchologically addicted to the effects of steroidsYou bring up a good point. I was a bit premature in my hasty answer.

I do agree that people can become psychologically addicted to the performance boost and gains from steroids. However, I have not seen any evidence (written or otherwise) of individuals who become physically addicted (i.e. cold sweats, shakes, and other symptoms typically associated with a chemical addiction).

ZECH
06-20-2005, 06:40 PM
Steroids are not addictive per say as a drug addiction. It's the physical addiction of wanting more and more and never being satisfied with youself. G-S made a wonderful thread about it and I think it fits in perfect here. A great read!

My name is G-S, and I'm an AnabolicFreak.

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Originally posted at AF a few months ago - but still hits close to home and is very important to me.

Thought I would address a topic that I think many of us battle with, yet I've never seen anyone talk about it.

When I began serious weight training, some 7+ years ago, I had many hobbies, and many things I enjoyed doing.

I was an avid hunter, loved camping, and loved the outdoors. I was one of the biggest sports nuts you would ever find, and I spent the majority of my time honing my fantasy football skills. I kept in close contact with the majority of my "good" buds that I grew up with. Spoke to them often, and always hung out with them and their wives, and kids, etc.

In the year 2000, things began to change. Ive never admitted it to anyone, not even my wife, but I think they have changed for the worse. Things I used to enjoy mean nothing to me now. I haven't pulled my bow out and went deer hunting in 3 years. I've spent less and less time in the woods since I started using AAS. I've began to care less and less if I see an old buddy or not. I tend to get an attitude now and again that makes it not very fun to be around. I don't speak to my parents NEAR as much as I used to. I don't like to be inconvinenced by anyone, not even my own kids.

Why?

The only thing that seems important to me now is my own body, and how big and strong I can be. I wake up, walk right to the bathroom, and look in the mirror. I plan cycles that I'll never do. I continually beat myself up over the fact that somewhere, in some gym, there is someone that is stronger, and more intimidating than I.

When I first got into this, I said "20lbs is all I want". That was countless amounts of gear ago, and I'm still not where I think I should be. I'm not shy to admit it, but this AAS use, and weight training has consumed my life, and is driving away those who care about me most.

I need to make changes. Not sure how, not sure when. But I do need to change.

No, I'm not going anywhere. Even if I ever did go clean, I'd still be here to support my brothers and sisters in the iron game. But, I just wanted to lay this on the line, in hopes that those newbies who get into this with the mind set that they can get where they want - it most likely won't happen.

There are more important things in life than this - we all know that. So if you are new, don't let the same things happen to you that have happened to me. Because if I sat here and told you that AAS use is NOT addictive, I'd be a liar. I'm living proof.

Sincerely - GS

Prince
06-20-2005, 08:33 PM
I believe steroids are mentally addictive, not physically addictive.

soxmuscle
06-20-2005, 08:37 PM
Thats great, DG. Nice article. Any chance I could get the link to that thread to see some of the responses?

ZECH
06-21-2005, 06:30 AM
I believe steroids are mentally addictive, not physically addictive.
Look at it this way............mentally you want to physically bigger, stronger, leaner. So you are not happy. So you want more to satisfy your physical need.

ZECH
06-21-2005, 06:37 AM
http://www.massmuscleinc.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1215

soxmuscle
06-21-2005, 11:05 AM
Thanks

TrojanMan60563
06-21-2005, 07:54 PM
Some people fall into depression after a cycle when their test levels are on the floor. They start to lose their size and strength and so the only way they think they will feel better is to jump back on a cycle...I don't think that is a physical thing as much as a mental addiction.....but I would say they are for sure addictive.