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View Full Version : novladex for the entire cycle and after?



stax
02-07-2006, 08:00 PM
is taking nolvladex your entire cycle good, bad, or great?

Tough Old Man
02-07-2006, 08:11 PM
It's fine but I prefer Arimidex during the cycle to keep water retention down and nolva for PCT. JMO

Getbig82
02-07-2006, 09:49 PM
How much Arimidex do you take throughout the cycle Toughman?

Mudge
02-07-2006, 10:03 PM
My vote, bad.

kraziplaya
02-08-2006, 10:54 AM
why bad???

Getbig82
02-08-2006, 11:06 AM
It's bad because you lose some of your gains.

Supermans Daddy
02-08-2006, 11:36 AM
If you are prone to gyno, then why take chances.Do what you gotta do to stay as safe as possible.IMO;)

FullGo
02-08-2006, 07:43 PM
i take it throughout its always worked for me . and as far as gains i'll trade a 5% loss anyday for not having to wear a bra

musclepump
02-08-2006, 09:13 PM
I've been having to take Nolva the last two days from my 1-AD/4-Derm/Nor-Derm cycle. Very surprised about that.

Purdue Power
02-08-2006, 09:21 PM
If you don't have to worry about estrogen-related problems(ie. gyno), then there is no reason to take Nolva or an aromitase inhibitor during your cycle. You need to have estrogen in your system to have an optimal anabolic environment(evidence against aromitase inhibitors). Nolva inhibits IGF-1 production, thus lowering your gains.

On the other hand, if you have estrogen-related problems, then you will need to take one or the other to limit or eliminate those problems while on cycle. Always have them on hand in case you need them, but you won't know for sure if you are going to need them until you are actually on-cycle.

musclepump
02-08-2006, 10:07 PM
If you don't have to worry about estrogen-related problems(ie. gyno), then there is no reason to take Nolva or an aromitase inhibitor during your cycle. You need to have estrogen in your system to have an optimal anabolic environment(evidence against aromitase inhibitors). Nolva inhibits IGF-1 production, thus lowering your gains.

On the other hand, if you have estrogen-related problems, then you will need to take one or the other to limit or eliminate those problems while on cycle. Always have them on hand in case you need them, but you won't know for sure if you are going to need them until you are actually on-cycle.

Here's a question... is ANY itching worth using Nolva for? Or should it be persistent before busting out the AIs?

Pirate!
02-09-2006, 05:45 AM
I don't believe estrogen has any direct anabolic effect. Nor do I believe that using an AI will decrease gains. I prefer to use an AI on cycle, rather than nolva. They are more effective and not carcinogenic.

Please refer to the bold print in this study.


Estrogen suppression in males: metabolic effects.

Mauras N, O'Brien KO, Klein KO, Hayes V.

Nemours Research Programs at the Nemours Children's Clinic, Jacksonville, Florida 32207, USA. nmauras@nemours.org

We have shown that testosterone (T) deficiency per se is associated with marked catabolic effects on protein, calcium metabolism, and body composition in men independent of changes in GH or insulin-like growth factor I production. It is not clear,,however, whether estrogens have a major role in whole body anabolism in males. We investigated the metabolic effects of selective estrogen suppression in the male using a potent aromatase inhibitor, arimidex (Anastrozole). First, a dose-response study of 12 males (mean age, 16.1 +/- 0.3 yr) was conducted, and blood withdrawn at baseline and after 10 days of oral arimidex given as two different doses (either 0.5 or 1 mg) in random order with a 14-day washout in between. A sensitive estradiol (E2) assay showed an approximately 50% decrease in E2 concentrations with either of the two doses; hence, a 1-mg dose was selected for other studies. Subsequently, eight males (aged 15-22 yr; four adults and four late pubertal) had isotopic infusions of [(13)C]leucine and (42)Ca/(44)Ca, indirect calorimetry, dual energy x-ray absorptiometry, isokinetic dynamometry, and growth factors measurements performed before and after 10 weeks of daily doses of arimidex. Contrary to the effects of T withdrawal, there were no significant changes in body composition (body mass index, fat mass, and fat-free mass) after estrogen suppression or in rates of protein synthesis or degradation; carbohydrate, lipid, or protein oxidation; muscle strength; calcium kinetics; or bone growth factors concentrations. However, E2 concentrations decreased 48% (P = 0.006), with no significant change in mean and peak GH concentrations, but with an 18% decrease in plasma insulin-like growth factor I concentrations. There was a 58% increase in serum T (P = 0.0001), sex hormone-binding globulin did not change, whereas LH and FSH concentrations increased (P < 0.02, both). Serum bone markers, osteocalcin and bone alkaline phosphatase concentrations, and rates of bone calcium deposition and resorption did not change. In conclusion, these data suggest that in the male 1) estrogens do not contribute significantly to the changes in body composition and protein synthesis observed with changing androgen levels; 2) estrogen is a main regulator of the gonadal-pituitary feedback for the gonadotropin axis; and 3) this level of aromatase inhibition does not negatively impact either kinetically measured rates of bone calcium turnover or indirect markers of bone calcium turnover, at least in the short term. Further studies will provide valuable information on whether timed aromatase inhibition can be useful in increasing the height potential of pubertal boys with profound growth retardation without the confounding negative effects of gonadal androgen suppression.

Publication Types:
Clinical Trial

PMID: 10902781 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

Pirate!
02-09-2006, 05:46 AM
Here's a question... is ANY itching worth using Nolva for? Or should it be persistent before busting out the AIs?Any irritation makes it worth using nolva, IMO. An AI would be better, though.

ag-guys
02-09-2006, 03:51 PM
is taking nolvladex your entire cycle good, bad, or great?

Nolva or a-dex are good for entire cycle.

AG
www.ag-guys.com

Tough Old Man
02-09-2006, 03:57 PM
How much Arimidex do you take throughout the cycle Toughman?I use Arimidex .25 thru out my cycle to keep the water retention down. The last 10 days of my cycle plus 1 week more I use HCG @ 500 ius every 4 days and nolva for PCT. I'm also lucky as I guess I'm not prone to gyno as I never had and was cycling years ago before all this other shit came out to help gyno.

Tough

Getbig82
02-09-2006, 09:23 PM
Sucks for me I can get gyno at times.What HCG do you recommend(Tough). I was told that actually Proviron was best with Test. which is a rare case of its use, instead of arimidex. I think Proviron is harder to get though. It's better because, it attaches to a certain molecule in Test. and allows more free testosterone,which promotes gains.(Am I correct)?

Purdue Power
02-09-2006, 09:46 PM
Sucks for me I can get gyno at times.What HCG do you recommend(Tough). I was told that actually Proviron was best with Test. which is a rare case of its use, instead of arimidex. I think Proviron is harder to get though. It's better because, it attaches to a certain molecule in Test. and allows more free testosterone,which promotes gains.(Am I correct)?
You ask "What HCG do you recommend?". HCG is not a category, it is Human Chorionic Gonadatropin. Proviron does help to free up more test by keeping it from aromatizing, so it has low AI funtion. In some people, that is enough. In others, it won't quite cut it.

Mudge
02-09-2006, 10:16 PM
Nothing attaches to testosterone, AI (aromatase inhibitors) prevent some of the testosterone from converting to estrogen by inhibiting aromatase conversion rates.

People either love proviron, or say its highly overrated.

Tough Old Man
02-09-2006, 10:28 PM
Nothing attaches to testosterone, AI (aromatase inhibitors) prevent some of the testosterone from converting to estrogen by inhibiting aromatase conversion rates.

People either love proviron, or say its highly overrated.And your personal opinion on Proviron? Over rated or not. I say over rated

Getbig82
02-10-2006, 10:09 AM
It's is it's own catergory but there are many makers and some are better.

Pirate!
02-10-2006, 12:19 PM
And your personal opinion on Proviron? Over rated or not. I say over ratedIt most definitely gives me wood. I only take it a few hours prior to rump time. Its anti-e properties are close to nill. I would not use it for that purpose.