Sleep Question, Need your help!

r0dxx · Feb 17, 2006

Here's the deal...This is ruining my workout week/life!

I HAVE NO PROBLEM FALLING ASLEEP on a regular night...For example tonight I will hit the sack and sleep like a baby for 8 hours, with the occasional early morning piss.

Here's my problem...Sunday night I work late...There is nothing I can do about it. I get home around 2am, and I'm in bed by 2:30...Monday I dont have class/work...SO I sleep in to like 9:30-10:00am.

Tuesday I have a class at 7am, so I need to be up by 6. So I go to bed at 10pm. For some reason I can never fall asleep, I just sit there like an idiot for hours. Rolling around, flipping over, just getting pissed. Then eventually I get out of the room and watch tv, or go online and then go back to sleep when I eventually get tired around 130-2am. Then I end up getting no sleep and feeling like total crap the rest of the day, and struggle through my workout.

I think the main reason I cant fall asleep is because...I've only been up for about 11-12 hours, and just straight out not tired. I lay in bed with my heart beating, like I am ready to do something...NOT FALL ASLEEP.

So far I've tried Melatonin...I've tried many different amounts:

3mg - Worked great, but felt grogy all day...
1mg - Worked great, but still felt pretty groggy
0.5mg - Worked ok, didnt fell awake during the day
0.3mg - Didn't work...

I guess I dont respond well to the after affect of melatonin supplements, I fall asleep good...But the next day I feel like a zombie, just really hungover feeling.

I've also tried:

Simply Sleep...but made me sweat alot...

So is there anything I can take to make me tired, and feel like my normal self the next day? Someone please tell me something. By the way I work out around 2pm that day that I can never fall asleep...

Thanks again...

maniclion · Feb 18, 2006

Read a book in bed.

lioness · Mar 2, 2006

Awww. sorry. that stinks! i have trouble falling asleep most nights.

i have a few books with suggestions. i'll list a few. i just tend to keep trying I am the queen of not being able to fall asleep. It???s been this way for YEARS! My internal time clock wants to stay up late...and sleep in! But i can't sleep in.

Lots of things help me...but then i feel so groggy the next day. What I???ve learned is~if i take some things an hour or 2 earlier than i need to...they've fully kicked in when it's bed time...and wear off sooner in the morning. You could try taking your 1 mg an hour or so earlier?

I have a few books with suggestions. I???ll list a few. I just tend to keep trying something...vary it up like you did with melatonin...until it works.

"some herbs for enhancing sleep include scullcap, valerian, oat straw and lavender...scullcap decreases the activity of the neurotransmitters , norepinephrine and acetylcholine...combinations of these herbs have been found to work synergistically and have better results."

Also, think about watching your caffeine that day.

Benedryl works great for me...generic bottle of 1oo is about $3 at Costco. I HAVE to take this by 7 pm to get to sleep around 10...if i wait and take it at 10 pm...I can't wake up the next morning.

just some thoughts.

good luck!

Vieope · Mar 2, 2006

maniclion, lioness

r0dxx · Mar 2, 2006

lioness said:
Awww. sorry. that stinks! i have trouble falling asleep most nights.

i have a few books with suggestions. i'll list a few. i just tend to keep trying I am the queen of not being able to fall asleep. It???s been this way for YEARS! My internal time clock wants to stay up late...and sleep in! But i can't sleep in.

Lots of things help me...but then i feel so groggy the next day. What I???ve learned is~if i take some things an hour or 2 earlier than i need to...they've fully kicked in when it's bed time...and wear off sooner in the morning. You could try taking your 1 mg an hour or so earlier?

I have a few books with suggestions. I???ll list a few. I just tend to keep trying something...vary it up like you did with melatonin...until it works.

"some herbs for enhancing sleep include scullcap, valerian, oat straw and lavender...scullcap decreases the activity of the neurotransmitters , norepinephrine and acetylcholine...combinations of these herbs have been found to work synergistically and have better results."

Also, think about watching your caffeine that day.

Benedryl works great for me...generic bottle of 1oo is about $3 at Costco. I HAVE to take this by 7 pm to get to sleep around 10...if i wait and take it at 10 pm...I can't wake up the next morning.

just some thoughts.

good luck!

Thanks! Great post...

I think I have found something that works! With no side effects!!

I took 50mg of 5-htp last night, around 9:30 went to sleep at 10:30-11ish woke up at 7am, and felt fine all day.

lioness · Mar 2, 2006

r0dxx said:
Thanks! Great post...

I think I have found something that works! With no side effects!!

I took 50mg of 5-htp last night, around 9:30 went to sleep at 10:30-11ish woke up at 7am, and felt fine all day.

yea!

i take 5HTP for a couple weeks each month...helps my pms tremendously!

check and see if your 5-HTP has vitamin B6 added. I've seen it at the health food store with and without added B6. Mine has 50mg 5-HTP, 10 mg B6, 60 mg Vitamin C...these are cofactors in the conversion of serotonin.

The production and transport of tryptophan (5HTP) from the bloodstream into the central nervous system can be compromised by not enough B6. They work synergistically.

(i don't know how important adding C and B6 are for sleep...but i do think they are crucial for conversion to serotonin...which helps with mood.)

anybody know more on this???

lioness · Mar 2, 2006

Vieope said:
maniclion, lioness

Vieope · Mar 2, 2006

lions

lioness · Mar 2, 2006

Vieope said:
lions

you MUST be MALE... :headbang:

b/c your answers are short and to the point.

i think you're my ex bf!

if you're female...then the guys must love you!

r0dxx · Mar 2, 2006

lioness said:
yea!

i take 5HTP for a couple weeks each month...helps my pms tremendously!

check and see if your 5-HTP has vitamin B6 added. I've seen it at the health food store with and without added B6. Mine has 50mg 5-HTP, 10 mg B6, 60 mg Vitamin C...these are cofactors in the conversion of serotonin.

The production and transport of tryptophan (5HTP) from the bloodstream into the central nervous system can be compromised by not enough B6. They work synergistically.

(i don't know how important adding C and B6 are for sleep...but i do think they are crucial for conversion to serotonin...which helps with mood.)

anybody know more on this???

This is really weird...I took 1 50mg pill last night, and all day today I was wide awake, and happy. I've been down past couple weeks due to a bad investment that I lost alot of money on. Today I was happy ALL DAY LONG. Even in traffic on the way to school, it was really weird. I don't know if it was all in my head, or the pill actually affected my sleep/todays mood?

I did notice that last night I experienced very involved dreams, and when I awoke this morning I remembered everything. I still even remember some of it now. And I also noticed that I woke up right when I was suppose to, and didn't lay there begging for more time...

Could 50mg of this stuff do all that? Or was it a placebo effect?

Vieope · Mar 2, 2006

lioness said:
you MUST be MALE...

b/c your answers are short and to the point.

i think you're my ex bf!

if you're female...then the guys must love you!

Yes, male.
No, you never met me.
No but they still love me anyway.

lioness · Mar 2, 2006

r0dxx said:
This is really weird...I took 1 50mg pill last night, and all day today I was wide awake, and happy. I've been down past couple weeks due to a bad investment that I lost alot of money on. Today I was happy ALL DAY LONG. Even in traffic on the way to school, it was really weird. I don't know if it was all in my head, or the pill actually affected my sleep/todays mood?

I did notice that last night I experienced very involved dreams, and when I awoke this morning I remembered everything. I still even remember some of it now. And I also noticed that I woke up right when I was suppose to, and didn't lay there begging for more time...

Could 50mg of this stuff do all that? Or was it a placebo effect?

same here!! I NEVER dream...not a 'dreamer' throughout my life. but i DREAM on this stuff...and remember it. sometimes very lucid dreams.

yes...it IS for moods! lol

here's some more info i cut and pasted:

5-HTP may help to:

Elevate mood in cases of depression. 5-HTP appears to increase the brain's serotonin levels, positively influencing such disorders as depression that have been linked to low levels of this brain neurotransmitter.

Treat insomnia. Several elements of a good night's sleep appear to be influenced by 5-HTP. In addition to reducing the amount of time it takes to nod off, this compound actually may enhance the quality of sleep itself, increasing both the duration of dream states (REM sleep) and of deep slumber. In studies, most people who tried 5-HTP also reported feeling more rested upon awakening.

Promote weight loss. Some studies indicate that 5-HTP may curb the appetite when taken before meals. In a recent study of dieting women, those given 5-HTP reported feeling fuller than those who were given a placebo. In the end, participants in the 5-HTP group consumed fewer calories overall, and lost more weight than those in the placebo group. 5-HTP reportedly reduces cravings for sweets and starches, it may also be of use in helping diabetics adhere to a healthy diet.

Dosage Information
For depression, anxiety, and panic attacks: Take 50 to 100 mg three times a day.
For insomnia: Take 100 mg 30 minutes before going to bed.
For weight control: Take 100 mg three times a day, 20 to 30 minutes before meals. After two weeks, increase the dose to 200 mg (three times a day).

Here???s a link I just found. This is the product I am taking. I got it a the local health food store???not online. I???m not recommending this particular one (although I like it). I???d just googled 5HTP and thought this site was helpful.

http://www.5htp.com/

Vieope · Mar 2, 2006

lioness said:
same here!! I NEVER dream...not a 'dreamer' throughout my life. but i DREAM on this stuff...and remember it. sometimes very lucid dreams.

You are wrong, everyone dreams a lot each night, you just cant remember them. There are a lot cool techniques that can help you with that.

r0dxx · Mar 2, 2006

lioness said:
same here!! I NEVER dream...not a 'dreamer' throughout my life. but i DREAM on this stuff...and remember it. sometimes very lucid dreams.

yes...it IS for moods! lol

here's some more info i cut and pasted:

5-HTP may help to:

Elevate mood in cases of depression. 5-HTP appears to increase the brain's serotonin levels, positively influencing such disorders as depression that have been linked to low levels of this brain neurotransmitter.

Treat insomnia. Several elements of a good night's sleep appear to be influenced by 5-HTP. In addition to reducing the amount of time it takes to nod off, this compound actually may enhance the quality of sleep itself, increasing both the duration of dream states (REM sleep) and of deep slumber. In studies, most people who tried 5-HTP also reported feeling more rested upon awakening.

Promote weight loss. Some studies indicate that 5-HTP may curb the appetite when taken before meals. In a recent study of dieting women, those given 5-HTP reported feeling fuller than those who were given a placebo. In the end, participants in the 5-HTP group consumed fewer calories overall, and lost more weight than those in the placebo group. 5-HTP reportedly reduces cravings for sweets and starches, it may also be of use in helping diabetics adhere to a healthy diet.

Dosage Information
For depression, anxiety, and panic attacks: Take 50 to 100 mg three times a day.
For insomnia: Take 100 mg 30 minutes before going to bed.
For weight control: Take 100 mg three times a day, 20 to 30 minutes before meals. After two weeks, increase the dose to 200 mg (three times a day).

Here???s a link I just found. This is the product I am taking. I got it a the local health food store???not online. I???m not recommending this particular one (although I like it). I???d just googled 5HTP and thought this site was helpful.

http://www.5htp.com/

That's weird the dosages they list our alot higher all I took was 50mg :bulb:

This stuff seems too good to be true, is there ANYTHING BAD ABOUT IT?

lioness · Mar 2, 2006

Hi. sorry for the long reply again. i'm just cutting and pasting so you get some accurate information... become educated in 5htp...lol

"HOW 5-HTP WORKS - Tryptophan is found naturally in several foods, including cow's milk, eggs, poultry, and some nuts and seeds. Tryptophan obtained through the diet is usually converted in the brain into 5-HTP, which is then turned into serotonin.

Prozac, Zoloft, imipramine, and other antidepressant drugs work by influencing serotonin levels. Specifically, they belong to a class of drugs known as selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors (or SSRIs). These increase the serotonin level indirectly by blocking its inactivation; that is, they prevent the brain cells from using up serotonin too quickly, causing a deficiency. But by definition, SSRIs interfere with the brain's natural physiological regulatory system, in which cells slow down serotonin secretion.

In contrast, the tryptophan in 5-HTP (a highly purified extract from Griffonia simplicifolia, a West African medicinal plant) provides brain cells with the necessary materials to make more serotonin, without blocking any normal metabolic processes and without the serious side effects of the SSRIs, which include dry mouth, reduced libido, heart palpitations, tremors, and anxiety, explains pharmacist Earl Mindell, R.Ph., Ph.D. He calls 5-HTP the natural Prozac, noting "it does what the SSRIs cannot: increase the cells' production of serotonin to boost serotonin levels."

You would think that simply by eating more tryptophan-rich foods you could provide your brain with all it needs to produce more serotonin. But there's a catch.

There is a constant struggle between tryptophan and other amino acids (e.g., tyrosine, phenylalanine, leucine, methionine, and histidine) to gain access to the brain. So, if you start eating a high-protein diet, you increase the blood levels of these competing amino acids and tryptophan levels in the brain actually decrease.

On the other hand, a high-carbohydrate/low-protein diet (or a big serving of pastries or pasta) causes the release of extra insulin, which wipes out the competing amino acids and allows more tryptophan to get into the brain. Taking tryptophan as a supplement avoids both horns of this dilemma.

The typical recommended dosage of 5-HTP for improving the symptoms of "serotonin deficiency syndrome" is 25-50 mg daily, although Dr. Mindell recommends two 50 mg capsules daily, provided they're not taken with other antidepressants or monoamine oxidase (MAO) inhibitors. Higher daily dosages (over 100 mg) could cause some side effects, including mild nausea. Vitamin B6 should also be taken on the same day as 5-HTP because it is necessary for converting 5-HTP into serotonin"

I'm thinking (just common sense here)...that if someone has an eating disorder such as anorexia...they wouldn't want to take this. Also, since it aids sleep :yawn:

...i'd be careful taking it if driving or operating machines. (however, i do take it in the mornings...for pms...and i'm fine to drive...teach spinning...etc). I'd check with a dr. if someone was also taking any form of anti-depressant!! i don't know how it could effect that.

lioness · Mar 2, 2006

Vieope said:
You are wrong, everyone dreams a lot each night, you just cant remember them. There are a lot cool techniques that can help you with that.

Whoa! more than 2 words! :laugh:

yes, i understand that. i mis-spoke. i don't remember my dreams...just a few freaky reaccuring ones that i'd rather forget.

i need to tap into that part of me. i've had a couple of intense 'out of body' kind of experiences. i know there is much more out there than i have comprehension of........

r0dxx · Mar 2, 2006

I'm soo glad a guy at the gym recommended me this stuff, the first thing I ever took that I woke up and felt normal.

Not groggy, hungover, etc. Just felt like a normal good nights sleep. I think I slept 7-8 hours last night, woke up feeling like a new person.

It seems like bodybuilders especially can benefit from this...Better deeper sleeper (more growth) feel better the next day (good workouts) less stress, and no carb cravings (good if cutting)

It's weird today I felt great all day, then i realized i took the 5-htp last night. I swear I would go on an infomercial for this stuff!

lioness · Mar 2, 2006

r0dxx said:
I'm soo glad a guy at the gym recommended me this stuff, the first thing I ever took that I woke up and felt normal.

Not groggy, hungover, etc. Just felt like a normal good nights sleep. I think I slept 7-8 hours last night, woke up feeling like a new person.

:bounce:

hey...if i'm THIS ^^^^^ happy for someone i don't even know...in the middle of my pms...you gotta KNOW this is good stuff!

Vieope · Mar 2, 2006

lioness said:
Whoa! more than 2 words!

yes, i understand that. i mis-spoke. i don't remember my dreams...just a few freaky reaccuring ones that i'd rather forget.

i need to tap into that part of me. i've had a couple of intense 'out of body' kind of experiences. i know there is much more out there than i have comprehension of........

Yeah more than two words

Can you post your dreams here? I would like to read them.
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/showthread.php?t=58283

lioness · Mar 4, 2006

r0dxx said:
I'm soo glad a guy at the gym recommended me this stuff, the first thing I ever took that I woke up and felt normal.

Not groggy, hungover, etc. Just felt like a normal good nights sleep. I think I slept 7-8 hours last night, woke up feeling like a new person.

It seems like bodybuilders especially can benefit from this...Better deeper sleeper (more growth) feel better the next day (good workouts) less stress, and no carb cravings (good if cutting)

It's weird today I felt great all day, then i realized i took the 5-htp last night. I swear I would go on an infomercial for this stuff!

still sleeping good and feeling better?

r0dxx · Mar 6, 2006

lioness said:
still sleeping good and feeling better?

Well I only take on certain days, and I will take it again tonight. So I will get back to you tommorow night

Sleep Question, Need your help!

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