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granz4
10-18-2006, 10:17 AM
Looking for advise on my first cycle. What should I take and how much and how long? Any info would help. Done all the research, but looking to see what people will respond.

Age: 24 Weight: 190 Height: 5'6 BF" 10% Years of training serious: 4

My Diets clean 40% carb 35% pro 25% fat

Tough Old Man
10-18-2006, 10:41 AM
Test E or Cyp @ 500 mgs / EW......Split it in 2 doses......8-12 weeks will work

Pirate!
10-18-2006, 04:28 PM
What are your goals?

IRONBULL05
10-18-2006, 09:07 PM
I would go with a test only cycle for your first.Maybe some d-bol the first 4 wks to kickstart the cycle.

Wks 1-4 D-bol 30mg ed
Wks 1-12 Test E 500mg ew(250mg Mon,250mg Thurs)

I would run adex .5 mg ed to help control bloat. Make sure to run a proper pct 2 wks after your last inj.Nolva 30mg ed,Clomid 25mg ed for 4 wks.

This is a very mild cycle which should give you great results with very few,if any neg.side effects.Remember to keep your training intense and EAT!!!Diet is key!!

Good luck bro.

granz4
10-19-2006, 11:41 AM
Test E or C ? Mass

Should I front load?

tommyboy11
10-19-2006, 01:36 PM
No need to frontload or use dianabol for your first cycle, you will grow like a weed with the test at 500 milligrams a week for 10 or 12 weeks as long as you train hard and eat over maintenance . Good luck with whatever you choose :thumb:

Tough Old Man
10-19-2006, 03:25 PM
No need to frontload or use dianabol for your first cycle, you will grow like a weed with the test at 500 milligrams a week for 10 or 12 weeks as long as you train hard and eat over maintenance . Good luck with whatever you choose :thumb:Agree...Boy some of these peeps that recommend D-bol with the first cycle....Shame

IRONBULL05
10-19-2006, 03:44 PM
Agree...Boy some of these peeps that recommend D-bol with the first cycle....Shame

D-bol for a first cycle is perfectly fine.At 30mg ed this will kickstart his cycle until the test starts to work.At 30mg ed the neg.sides of the dbol will be nothing.

But I would love to hear why you feel d-bol and test for a first cycle is no good.

Pirate!
10-19-2006, 04:41 PM
I see no problem with using Dbol as a kickstart on a first cycle with Test E or C. Worked fine for me.

GFR
10-19-2006, 04:45 PM
D-bol for a first cycle is perfectly fine.At 30mg ed this will kickstart his cycle until the test starts to work.At 30mg ed the neg.sides of the dbol will be nothing. :rolleyes: Ok Doctor

But I would love to hear why you feel d-bol and test for a first cycle is no good.Test is best by far, you want a jump start.....well nothing better than test prop.

No need to take the worst and most dangerous steroids esp for your first cycle.

Pirate!
10-19-2006, 04:55 PM
That's ridiculous. Dbol is not even close to the most dangerous steroid.

GFR
10-19-2006, 05:05 PM
That's ridiculous. Dbol is not even close to the most dangerous steroid.

It is much more dangerous that test and more dangerous than any indictable steroid to my knowledge ( some might say tren but at 4 weeks I would say not even close) . Also one of the most dangerous orals. The only drugs worse IMO are check drops, stennox, Anadrol and maybe oral winny.

IRONBULL05
10-19-2006, 05:08 PM
Dbol at 30mg ed for 4 wks in in no way dangerous! For a first cycle,getting used to inj.twice a wk with the tes e is rough enough,let alone prop @ ed.

D-bol is a safe and wise kickstart for any begining cycle.I love prop too,but I don't mind pinning myself ed either.That will come in time,not for a first run.

GFR
10-19-2006, 05:12 PM
Dbol at 30mg ed for 4 wks in in no way dangerous!
Horrible and totally ridiculous advice. Stop posting your B.S. before some newbie believes your misinformation.

IRONBULL05
10-19-2006, 05:18 PM
Horrible and totally ridiculous advice. Stop posting your B.S. before some newbie believes your misinformation.

Your absolutely right bro.Dbol will kill you!!!!

Whats sad is that I really think that you believe that!!

D-bol the most dangerous AAS????? Are you kidding me?LOL

Good stuff bro.Good stuff indeed!:spaz:

GFR
10-19-2006, 05:26 PM
Your absolutely right bro.Dbol will kill you!!!! Post a link to where I said that :rolleyes:

Whats sad is that I really think that you believe that!!
You might try reading up on steroids before you try to give advice

D-bol the most dangerous AAS????? Are you kidding me?LOL It is one of the worst Einstein. Again try to read a book for once :rolleyes:

Good stuff bro.Good stuff indeed!:spaz:
Read more and post less son, we have no need of teens like you who have 0 knowledge about training or steroid use. Go back to BB.com .

IRONBULL05
10-19-2006, 07:39 PM
Read more and post less son, we have no need of teens like you who have 0 knowledge about training or steroid use. Go back to BB.com .

Well genius,I don't speak what I read in a book,like obviously you do!!I speak out of what I have learned over the years from personal experience! I and anyone else with real AAS experience know that what you are syaing is not only foolish,but ridiculous!!

You keep reading though,it is doing you well!!!

IRONBULL05
10-19-2006, 07:44 PM
What youd did say is d-bol is one of the worst AAS out there except for..

The only drugs worse IMO are check drops, stennox, Anadrol and maybe oral winny.

Wow,except for all of those huh??It's one of the worst except for the 4 you just listed?Where did you read that,AAS for dummies???

Stop reading,or at least trying to read and learn from some guys who live it jr!!

Oh yeah,I forgot I am only a teen and not 99 like you!!:laugh:

GFR
10-19-2006, 07:45 PM
Well genius,I don't speak what I rwead in a book,like obviously you do!!I speak out of what I have learned over the years from personal experience!

You keep reading though,it is doing you well!!! I just wish you had learned from your experiences and mixed in a little science with your personal experiments. ;)

IRONBULL05
10-19-2006, 07:47 PM
Your right and one of these days it will catch up to me!!Maybe when i'm 80!

GFR
10-19-2006, 07:47 PM
What youd did say is d-bol is one of the worst AAS out there except for..

The only drugs worse IMO are check drops, stennox, Anadrol and maybe oral winny.

Wow,except for all of those huh??It's one of the worst except for the 4 you just listed?Where did you read that,AAS for dummies???

Stop reading,or at least trying to read and learn from some guys who live it jr!!

Oh yeah,I forgot I am only a teen and not 99 like you!!:laugh:I have never used a steroid because I don't need them.




"the widespread use of steroids and other chemical supplements is frequently an admission that one has run out of training ideas to produce further progress naturally."
-Dr. Mel Siff

Trouble
10-19-2006, 09:35 PM
"Contrary to what many would expect, this compound (Methandrostenolone trade name Dianabol) is actually only a weak agonist of the AR, with poor binding in comparison to testosterone. It follows, then, that its value must come from non-AR-mediated effects."

(this means that it binds primarily to LXR and RXR/RAR, and more weakly to VDR/FXR nuclear receptors. The first encodes for liver factor activation of new myocytes. Te second for muscle and connective tissue repair/recovery and with the third, which also encodes for bone mineralization)

"Since it is not very effective in activating ARs, it should be stacked with an AAS that is effective in that regard. At moderate doses (20-50 mg/day) oral methandrostenolone appears to be about twice as effective per milligram (twice as potent) as injectable testosterone esters (in promoting non-AR related anabolic activity)."

Thus, we have an apples and oranges situation. Early on in this cycle, there is VERY LITTLE FUCKING ACTIVATION OF AR HAPPENING. The primary nuclear receptor activation is is anabolic but not androgenic

Since Oxymetholone (Anadrol®) has been mentioned, its also a weak androgen receptor (AR) activator. Its primary effect is anabolic and it is also progestogenic (and therefore can aggravate gynecomastia in susceptible males), but unlike Dianabol, it is not converted by aromatase (CYP3A4) to estrogenic compounds.

The key to understanding the side effects and their toxciology lies in the OTHER RECEPTORS beyond AR that are activated by AAS compounds - this is a function of how TIGHTLY various steroid analogs bind to these other nuclear receptors.

Anadrol activates PXR and SXR, steroid receptor genes that control liver microsomal P450 enzyme expression. Its (apparently) thru this mechanism that anadrol exerts an estrogenic sensitization effect, although it not metabolized (does not *directly* activate) aromatase (cytochrome P450 3A4) in liver.

Therefore anadrol >> dianabol >> test, in terms of side effects via non-AR anabolic nuclear receptor activation.

Source: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/pharmacology/anabolic-steroid-profiles.htm

GFR
10-19-2006, 09:45 PM
"Contrary to what many would expect, this compound (Methandrostenolone trade name Dianabol) is actually only a weak agonist of the AR, with poor binding in comparison to testosterone. It follows, then, that its value must come from non-AR-mediated effects."

(this means that it binds primarily to LXR and RXR/RAR, and more weakly to VDR/FXR nuclear receptors. The first encodes for liver factor activation of new myocytes. Te second for muscle and connective tissue repair/recovery and with the third, which also encodes for bone mineralization)

"Since it is not very effective in activating ARs, it should be stacked with an AAS that is effective in that regard. At moderate doses (20-50 mg/day) oral methandrostenolone appears to be about twice as effective per milligram (twice as potent) as injectable testosterone esters (in promoting non-AR related anabolic activity)."

Thus, we have an apples and oranges situation. Early on in this cycle, there is VERY LITTLE FUCKING ACTIVATION OF AR HAPPENING. The primary nuclear receptor activation is is anabolic but not androgenic

Since Oxymetholone (Anadrol®) has been mentioned, its also a weak androgen receptor (AR) activator. Its primary effect is anabolic and it is also progestogenic (and therefore can aggravate gynecomastia in susceptible males), but unlike Dianabol, it is not converted by aromatase (CYP3A4) to estrogenic compounds.

The key to understanding the side effects and their toxciology lies in the OTHER RECEPTORS beyond AR that are activated by AAS compounds - this is a function of how TIGHTLY various steroid analogs bind to these other nuclear receptors.

Anadrol activates PXR and SXR, steroid receptor genes that control liver microsomal P450 enzyme expression. Its (apparently) thru this mechanism that anadrol exerts an estrogenic sensitization effect, although it not metabolized (does not *directly* activate) aromatase (cytochrome P450 3A4) in liver.

Therefore anadrol >> dianabol >> test, in terms of side effects via non-AR anabolic nuclear receptor activation.

Source: http://www.mesomorphosis.com/articles/pharmacology/anabolic-steroid-profiles.htm
According to all there medical information I have read Anadrol is the only steroid they think has caused cancer tumors so medically it is the worst.

The sides of test are not even close to the sides of Dianabol so I really don't get the >>>>>>> typing. I find it misleading and a non opinion.

Pirate!
10-20-2006, 04:30 AM
Other than bloat, what side effects do you get from Dbol, Foreman? I've never heard anyone complain about bad dbol sides unless they managed their estrogen poorly.

GFR
10-20-2006, 05:01 AM
Other than bloat, what side effects do you get from Dbol, Foreman? I've never heard anyone complain about bad dbol sides unless they managed their estrogen poorly.
I hate to have to teach such a smart man but here is steroid sides 101. :thumb:


1. Gyno
2. it decreases the rate of cell respiration and decreases production of red blood cells.
3. High blood pressure.
4. Male pattern baldness ( if genetically inclined)
5. Acne
6. Inhibits the immune system.
7. Liver damage.
8. Prostrate enlargement

Other than that it is good shit :thumb:.

Pirate!
10-20-2006, 08:36 AM
it is good shit :thumb:. Almost every oral steoid has those potential risks, and most orals are worse than dbol IMO. It does seriously increase estrodiol. To each his own. Some hate it and some love it. It is still far from the "most dangerous steroid".

GFR
10-20-2006, 08:41 AM
Almost every oral steoid has those potential risks, and most orals are worse than dbol IMO. It does seriously increase estrodiol. To each his own. Some hate it and some love it. It is still far from the "most dangerous steroid".Not a huge choice in Orals but D-bol is as bad or worse than most. I never said it was the most dangerous....If you read the entire thread you would have seen I listed a few worse than it.

If I were to use an oral I would use: Anavar or OT or Primobolan. But I think orals are a waste of time and money unless you don't care about your liver then I would hit stennox, D-bol or Anadrol depending on my goals.

Pirate!
10-20-2006, 06:24 PM
That's a solid argument. But in post 10 you did say dbol was the most dangerous. I agree that the others you listed are worse. Orals are just not for some people. Nothing beats test. Tbol is a better alternative than dbol.

BTW, I thought you found Var to be worthless.

JerseyDevil
10-20-2006, 08:09 PM
I hate to have to teach such a smart man but here is steroid sides 101. :thumb:


1. Gyno
2. it decreases the rate of cell respiration and decreases production of red blood cells.
3. High blood pressure.
4. Male pattern baldness ( if genetically inclined)
5. Acne
6. Inhibits the immune system.
7. Liver damage.
8. Prostrate enlargement

Other than that it is good shit :thumb:.
Foreman, I understand what you are saying. But don't you agree that even test has the 1, 3, 4, 5, 8 potential side effects?

GFR
10-21-2006, 08:18 AM
Foreman, I understand what you are saying. But don't you agree that even test has the 1, 3, 4, 5, 8 potential side effects?From Big Cat steroid profiles and a billion other sources


Like most oral steroids methandrostenolone is 17-alpha-alkylated so that it can't be broken down into a 17-ketosteroid, and therefore rendering the substance ineffective. However, this causes liver values to become elevated over a short period of time. It is for this reason that long-term use of any 17-alpha-alkylated steroid is considered dangerous. Despite this however, no long-term damage should be expected if use is kept to relatively short periods, with liver values returning to previous levels after use is discontinued in nearly all cases (4).

It should also be noted that methandrostenolone may be less useful to those competing in aerobic events as it also diminishes cell respiration(5). This may inhibit an individual's ability to perform at their maximum capacity.

durk
10-21-2006, 10:23 AM
big cat is just another name for big pussy

JerseyDevil
10-21-2006, 04:53 PM
From Big Cat steroid profiles and a billion other sources


Like most oral steroids methandrostenolone is 17-alpha-alkylated so that it can't be broken down into a 17-ketosteroid, and therefore rendering the substance ineffective. However, this causes liver values to become elevated over a short period of time. It is for this reason that long-term use of any 17-alpha-alkylated steroid is considered dangerous. Despite this however, no long-term damage should be expected if use is kept to relatively short periods, with liver values returning to previous levels after use is discontinued in nearly all cases (4).

It should also be noted that methandrostenolone may be less useful to those competing in aerobic events as it also diminishes cell respiration(5). This may inhibit an individual's ability to perform at their maximum capacity.

How exactly does that answer my question? So ok, dbol, like all 17aa orals can cause liver damage. So does Tylenol and alcohol. That's the case whether it's a first or twenty third cycle.

GFR
10-21-2006, 04:58 PM
How exactly does that answer my question?

From Big Cat steroid profiles and a billion other sources


Like most oral steroids methandrostenolone is 17-alpha-alkylated so that it can't be broken down into a 17-ketosteroid, and therefore rendering the substance ineffective. However, this causes liver values to become elevated over a short period of time. It is for this reason that long-term use of any 17-alpha-alkylated steroid is considered dangerous. Despite this however, no long-term damage should be expected if use is kept to relatively short periods, with liver values returning to previous levels after use is discontinued in nearly all cases (4).

It should also be noted that methandrostenolone may be less useful to those competing in aerobic events as it also diminishes cell respiration(5). This may inhibit an individual's ability to perform at their maximum capacity.


Other than the obvious orals pass the liver 2x so the sides are worse

JerseyDevil
10-21-2006, 05:02 PM
Sorry, I edited my post before you posted.

So basically you are saying no orals at all, no matter what your experience level. Originally I took your statements to mean no dbol for a first cycle, but it was ok for more experienced users.

GFR
10-21-2006, 05:06 PM
Sorry, I edited my post before you posted.

So basically you are saying no orals at all, no matter what your experience level. Originally I took your statements to mean no dbol for a first cycle, but it was ok for more experienced users.I almost never used them, but if I ever did again I would not use :Stennox Winny, D-bol and Anadrol. I think Anavar and OT are safer but still I think Injectables yeild much better results.