need exact pct numbers

Ok, im deciding to slim down using the advice pirate gave me on clen usage in my last thread. After countless hours of debating and consistently changing my opinion on which steroids to take as my opening cycle after i slim this fat off, i have decided on this :

organon sustanon - 250mgs twice a week
pronabol deca - 200 mgs twice a week
nolvadex - 20mgs a day during this 12 weeks and also three weeks afterwards

run for 12 weeks

My question is can someone give me a precise way to use pct considering this cycle ? The opinions i have read on here sway sooo much from person to person i dont know what to use and for how long. So pirate, dg806, and all the others who have commented on my posts could you guys give me an exact pct plan ? It would be greatly appreciated, thanks - chris

I would not do this for a first cycle for SEVERAL reasons. I'm not going to tell you why just yet. Do some reserch for a few days and report back in this thread and we will discuss it as you post.

will do man, ill do some looking around tonight and get back with you tomorrow, thanks alot bro

Ok man ive looked all night on this issue, and the only thing i see to be a debate with the information i have listed is the deca addition. Seems like many people feel that a test should be taken single handed your first cycle, while some feel its ok to add deca first time around. Some people seem to hate deca ltogether due to its attack on your libido, but from what i read its only temporary. Cant find any more issues of concern bro , but im all ears to anything you have to say and are willing to teach. Been lifting for 10 years and i wanna do a few cycles properly and thats all. I could have bought the gear 20 times by now but i have been researching more and more asking more questions as to do it 100% correctly before starting unlike some of these idiots i have read about on here. So lemme know what you think man im all about learning.

One more thing bro, as im asking about pct, i know the choices available. I just got a lil confused as some people say run clomid only after a cycle, some people say hcg only, some say hcg plus clomid, some say hcg during cycle and after cycle plus clomid. Hell some say just nolvadex but thats rediculous. You can see why somone who hasnt used for years would have concerns here listening and reading 10 different ways for pct. Like i said bro, im all ears, lemme know.

Ok dg i think i get what you were getting at...........maybe something along the lines of test only without the deca for 1. For 2, run the cycle for 8-10 weeks instead of 12. For 3, possibly changing the sustanon to cyp but i dont think that was the main issue at hand. Thats what i have come up with man. Please work with me through this thread as this thread is gonna be the basis for my first cycle which will be soon.

First things first...........For a first cycle, you want to know how you react to a certain substance. This knocks out more than one substance.......why?...........because if you get sides, how do you know which one is the culprit?
Two, Sust, being multiple ester, can do alot of the same. You have short and long and your blood levels are up and down.......not good. You want to keep them constant. This is why I would stick to a one ester test like Enth or cyp. Either one will do as they are only 1 ester different and is virtually the same. I also think you could get by on 400mg a week vs 500. 200mg twice a week for your first cycle and that gives you room to increase to 500 the next cycle. I think 12 weeks is fine as it will probably take around 5 weeks or to to kick in good,
3rd, I think a simple pct of 60/40/20/20 of Nolva would work good. Again, you don't won't to compicate things and not know what is causing the problem. You can experiment later if Nolva works good the first time.
Lastly, I usually say HCG on cycle is a good thing, because it is just so hard to kick start natural test later if you don't. If you keep LH levels up during cycle, test will rebound quicker. But with only 400mg a week, you may not need it. But it would be wise to have it just in case you need it.

Ok dg i got a good concept of what im doing more. I still got a few more things to clear , like i said, this threads gonna kick start my cycle next month. Ok from what i have read test ethanate is a bit more harsher on sides than cyp or sustanon, is this correct ? I have read gear like testoviron can get nasty on ya as far as sides are concerned. Also would it be wise or permissable if i brought the doseage of test to 500 a week for weeks like 7-10 then back down to 400 for the last 2 weeks ? I only plan on three cycles in the next year and a half man, then im done. Two for bulking and lean building, and the final for supreme cutting which will be far from now. Let me know your thoughts on those 2 things, thank you bro

Also let me state my diet and supps and let me hear your thoughts, i believe im spot on though with this. This is my diet now and i believe its perfect for gear.

Meal 1 - muscle milk n oats, turkey bacon, 1 fish oil, 1 multivitamin

Meal 2 - 1 banana, protein shake with ground flax seed

Preworkout - 2 glutamine caps (sci fit) 1 sip of amino fuel (twinlab)
After workout - 1 sip amino fuel, protein shake, 1 banana

meal 3 - grilled chicken breast , unrefined brown rice, broccoli, 1 fish oil

meal 4 - meal replacement shake (isopure)

meal 5 - can of solid white albacore tuna(35 g's protein in that) , unrefined brown rice, green bell peppers, 1 fish oil

meal 6 - steamed bowl of veggies, protein shake

before bed - protein shake (nitrotech nighttime)

Is this spot on for gear ? Any adjustments needed ?

lostvission said:

Ok dg i got a good concept of what im doing more. I still got a few more things to clear , like i said, this threads gonna kick start my cycle next month. Ok from what i have read test ethanate is a bit more harsher on sides than cyp or sustanon, is this correct ? I have read gear like testoviron can get nasty on ya as far as sides are concerned. Also would it be wise or permissable if i brought the doseage of test to 500 a week for weeks like 7-10 then back down to 400 for the last 2 weeks ? I only plan on three cycles in the next year and a half man, then im done. Two for bulking and lean building, and the final for supreme cutting which will be far from now. Let me know your thoughts on those 2 things, thank you bro

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I've heard some people say that one makes them hold more water than the other, but I don't really buy that. I think it's diet related. Like I said, they are virtually the same. Just pick one. Trash the Sust for now. If you are dead set on playing with dosages, just run 500(250mg twice a week) even though I think 400 would work just fine.

lostvission said:

Also let me state my diet and supps and let me hear your thoughts, i believe im spot on though with this. This is my diet now and i believe its perfect for gear.

Meal 1 - muscle milk n oats, turkey bacon, 1 fish oil, 1 multivitamin

Meal 2 - 1 banana, protein shake with ground flax seed

Preworkout - 2 glutamine caps (sci fit) 1 sip of amino fuel (twinlab)
After workout - 1 sip amino fuel, protein shake, 1 banana

meal 3 - grilled chicken breast , unrefined brown rice, broccoli, 1 fish oil

meal 4 - meal replacement shake (isopure)

meal 5 - can of solid white albacore tuna(35 g's protein in that) , unrefined brown rice, green bell peppers, 1 fish oil

meal 6 - steamed bowl of veggies, protein shake

before bed - protein shake (nitrotech nighttime)

Is this spot on for gear ? Any adjustments needed ?

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I think we could make some good changes for the better here also, But for starts, take some hours and read all this. Great info!
http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/diet-nutrition/21113-guide-cutting-bulking-maintenance.html

dg806 said:

I've heard some people say that one makes them hold more water than the other, but I don't really buy that. I think it's diet related. Like I said, they are virtually the same. Just pick one. Trash the Sust for now. If you are dead set on playing with dosages, just run 500(250mg twice a week) even though I think 400 would work just fine.

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Exactly

Weeks
1-12 Test E or C 400 mg/wk (in two shots)
2-13 hCG ~500-600 iu/wk (in two shots)

Nolva or an aromatase inhibitor, as needed.

I recommend starting PCT about ten days after your last test shot. I like Toremifene best. Nolva is second best, IMO. I seriously dislike Clomid and never recommend it. You can get liquid Toremifene from ag-guys.com.

hcg for weeks 2 - 13 ? That seems like alot, are you sure man ? I have never heard of it ran for that long , let me know - chris

ok dg i read all that which i knew alot of it, nutrition i know alot about. I have a fantastic diet man, all lean protein, whole grain carbs, veggies, water, omega three fatty acids, minimal fruit. The only thing i can see maybe could be improved would be to slot in some heavier stuff in that plan. Maybe slot in some steak or potatoes or pasta, some real gainer shit. Thats the only thing i can seee where change could be brought on. Let me know your thoughts man, everything im soaking up right now.

lostvission said:

hcg for weeks 2 - 13 ? That seems like alot, are you sure man ? I have never heard of it ran for that long , let me know - chris

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Yeah, it's better to do it in small doses throughout the entire cycle until pct starts. Some don't start until a few weeks in, but there is really no reason to wait. You are shut down after the first week.