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BasLandis
02-03-2009, 06:53 AM
1) Age-28
2) Weight and Percent BodyFat-270 lbs 30% 6'2"
3) Years of Consistant Training experience-off and on 10 years
4) Previous Cycle experience-none
5) Training routine and Diet-6 days a week(2x per day) normal fat guy diet low carbs, calories, fat. salads and vegs. used before, not started
6) Cycle Goals-get to 210ish and 9%bf

some back ground:

Fat people run in my family history. Reunions look similar to eric cartmans family tree.

A couple years ago, i was the same 270 lber and lost 40 lbs with a supplements aided workout and diet. Then dark clouds caught up to me, got in a bad car wreck. I was T-boned and the person was a illegal with no insurance :thumb:. Which messed up my left knee and back, so i no longer could workout. Knee still isnt 100%, but ready for next weight loss experience. Instead of supplements, I want to try a different method.

I still have leftover supplements ie creatine, rhodiola 110, viroloid, green tea, leutor, iso test etc etc. Should i use them before? after? during???? I want to try a cutting cycle with some combo of Primobolan, Anavar, or Winstrol. Leaning towards primobolan and winstrol. Should not use a cycle or only use one? Will this affect my MCL in my knee? Its another reason i want to use steroids.

I know how to use goggle :nerd: but the dishonest scumbags make a living off scamming people. Anyone with suggestions, opinions, experiences is welcomed to share(PLEASE DO!). Id done research and reached a point where its gotten confusing. I need all sort of help.

chrito
02-03-2009, 07:12 AM
welcome,we are here to help!

first of all you need good diet and plenty cardio..then gear!

for fats lost you need to get some testosterone toprotect muscles from diet to not lost them..then add some hgh with low dosage of t3 and t4..also add some clenbuterol...
you can add some winstroltabs,they work good with t3 and t4 +hgh

if you need more suggest just ask,we are here to help.

Hench
02-03-2009, 11:16 AM
At 270lbs and 30% AAS probably isnt a good idea. You need solid diet and training, and a much lower bf%.

Where's Built?

FishOrCutBait
02-03-2009, 11:24 AM
welcome,we are here to help!

first of all you need good diet and plenty cardio..then gear!

for fats lost you need to get some testosterone toprotect muscles from diet to not lost them..then add some hgh with low dosage of t3 and t4..also add some clenbuterol...
you can add some winstroltabs,they work good with t3 and t4 +hgh

if you need more suggest just ask,we are here to help.

sweet dicktits disregard everything he just said, excluding the bolded parts.

you need a GREAT diet and great training. gear shouldnt be a consideration at this point

Built
02-03-2009, 11:59 AM
Built's here.

Dude, let's get your eats worked out first. "Normal fat guy diet" is bullshit - it didn't keep it off you, right? It wasn't comfortable for you. There are better ways to diet.

Read this: Got Built? » The “Do It Yourself” Diet - Comfort food for life. (http://builtblog.wikidbody.com/2009/01/24/the-do-it-yourself-diet-comfort-food-for-life/)

Chevrolet
02-03-2009, 01:17 PM
cycling steroids at a high bf% can exponentially increase side effects. i.e. gynocomastia, high blood pressure etc.

yokedmofo
02-03-2009, 03:13 PM
Yeah read about "Gyno" ...juices can convert to estrogen at a much higher rate when your BF% is too high.

yokedmofo
02-03-2009, 03:17 PM
that means the tits you have now will soon turn into tig ol bitties!!!

we all been there though(finding the gyno cure)!...well most of us.

Shadowcam
02-03-2009, 10:48 PM
I would concentrate on loosing bodyfat and getting healthy. Dont know if your doing cardio but you should start with 30-40 mins
3-4 times a week then increase it a little each week till your capable of 6 days a week. I would just do resistance training 3-4 times a week as cardio takes its toll on recovery, just train basic, heavy and hard and if you got spare time on your hands, do more cardio. Stay away from that fat guy diet crap, you can still eat lots of clean food ie 6 meals a day minimum containing moderate to high protein such as lean meats and whey powder(only as a convenience option to wholefood),
moderate clean carbs such as barley, lentils and fruit, healthy fats such as nuts, olive oil, flaxseed oil or fish oil and of course plently of vegies. Slowly decrease calories mainly from carbs as you stagnate and once you get down to below 10%bf you just have to maintain.

Built
02-03-2009, 11:41 PM
Shadowcam, no disrespect intended and I agree with the recommendation of losing fat first, but cardio is a really lousy way to do this. It doesn't burn enough and the body gets used to it.

Lifting is a critical step to hang onto muscle and convince the body to drop fat, you're spot-on there.

I don't like the "six meals" concept, not for cutting. It's too uncomfortable - on a cut, many find it easier to eat fewer, but larger meals; they're more sating. I also don't recommend whey powder for cutting. What little food you get to eat, you're better off chewing it - it's more satisfying than drinking your calories.

Shadowcam
02-04-2009, 03:43 AM
Shadowcam, no disrespect intended and I agree with the recommendation of losing fat first, but cardio is a really lousy way to do this. It doesn't burn enough and the body gets used to it.

Lifting is a critical step to hang onto muscle and convince the body to drop fat, you're spot-on there.

I don't like the "six meals" concept, not for cutting. It's too uncomfortable - on a cut, many find it easier to eat fewer, but larger meals; they're more sating. I also don't recommend whey powder for cutting. What little food you get to eat, you're better off chewing it - it's more satisfying than drinking your calories.

Im assuming the guy who started this thread still wants a muscular physique once he has stripped off the bodyfat as this is a bodybuilding forum.

Ive never heard anyone with a bodybuilding background say cardio is a lousy way of loosing bodyfat unless they have a fast metabolism, obviously this guy does not. Cardio burns alot of calories, anything that increases heart rate does and when the body gets used to a certain amount its time to increase it as I suggested in my first post.

More smaller frequent meals throughout the day is a proven strategy to increase the metabolism as the body gets used to processing foods and also maintains muscle mass as it keeps a steady supply of protein and nutrients in the muscles. I didnt suggest whey, I said use it as a convenience option, meaning if he is not able to eat a wholefood meal for whatever reason then use whey as a alternative not a replacement.

Now I apoligise if Im wrong but Im guessing your a female, if thats the case then your method is fine for females or someone just wanting to lose bodyfat but I think this guys goal is a lean muscular physique, as he posted in the anabolic section.

BasLandis
02-04-2009, 03:45 AM
welcome,we are here to help!

first of all you need good diet and plenty cardio..then gear!

for fats lost you need to get some testosterone toprotect muscles from diet to not lost them..then add some hgh with low dosage of t3 and t4..also add some clenbuterol...
you can add some winstroltabs,they work good with t3 and t4 +hgh

if you need more suggest just ask,we are here to help.


thanks for the welcome and your input

BasLandis
02-04-2009, 03:51 AM
At 270lbs and 30% AAS probably isnt a good idea. You need solid diet and training, and a much lower bf%.

Where's Built?
diet and training wise, will be taken care of. i just have to set my mind.

when do your feel it would be a good number to add gear? with my knee being gimpy i was looking for some help.

BasLandis
02-04-2009, 03:53 AM
sweet dicktits disregard everything he just said, excluding the bolded parts.

you need a GREAT diet and great training. gear shouldnt be a consideration at this point


when is a good time? i was looking for some help now. my diet and training will be taken care of. once i make up my mind and commit myself again.

BasLandis
02-04-2009, 04:16 AM
Built's here.

Dude, let's get your eats worked out first. "Normal fat guy diet" is bullshit - it didn't keep it off you, right? It wasn't comfortable for you. There are better ways to diet.

Read this: Got Built? » The “Do It Yourself” Diet - Comfort food for life. (http://builtblog.wikidbody.com/2009/01/24/the-do-it-yourself-diet-comfort-food-for-life/)


the first go around, i jumped in balls deep. i just set my mind and DID NOT CHEAT OR LIE TO MYSELF. i ate low calorie, low fat, low carb, and limit portions. diet was salads, vegetables, jello, whey shakes, low calorie workout bars. meat wise it had to be white; pork, chicken, fish. and avoid other white foods; bread, sugar, cream etc. i became a professional label reader, if it didnt meet my standards i didnt eat it. ate in and pre-made meals and read lots of labels.

after i did my crash diet, i slowly allow myself other foods, once i got to certain number. it took me one month before i could see a difference. after 2.25 months i was a monster. but that was with two good knees.

i didnt feel comfort, i was a machine that didnt feel emotions. i had will-power and stay disciplined. i came up with all sort of ideas during my journey. some that i remember were: stay honest with yourself, stay disciplined, have a strong will set goals....missing 2 others.

thanks for your input and will look to you for advice, i hope you dont mind if i brother you much......:geewhiz:

BasLandis
02-04-2009, 04:20 AM
cycling steroids at a high bf% can exponentially increase side effects. i.e. gynocomastia, high blood pressure etc.

do you have any proof? not calling you a liar, just like to see some tests to back that up.

BasLandis
02-04-2009, 04:23 AM
Yeah read about "Gyno" ...juices can convert to estrogen at a much higher rate when your BF% is too high.


that means the tits you have now will soon turn into tig ol bitties!!!

we all been there though(finding the gyno cure)!...well most of us.


for what i read, the gear i picked did not affect estrogen. im a A-B cup right now......:thumbdwn:

BasLandis
02-04-2009, 04:31 AM
Shadowcam, no disrespect intended and I agree with the recommendation of losing fat first, but cardio is a really lousy way to do this. It doesn't burn enough and the body gets used to it.

Lifting is a critical step to hang onto muscle and convince the body to drop fat, you're spot-on there.

I don't like the "six meals" concept, not for cutting. It's too uncomfortable - on a cut, many find it easier to eat fewer, but larger meals; they're more sating. I also don't recommend whey powder for cutting. What little food you get to eat, you're better off chewing it - it's more satisfying than drinking your calories.

my training was 6 days a week, 2 times per. id swicth form cardo to lifting each day. same for upper body and lower body. sunday was rest.

example:
Monday= lower body+ cardio
Tuesday= upper body+lifting


next next

Monday=lower body+lifting
Tuesday=upper body+cardio

i dont care about how much i can lift, i want tone. i feel my knee will give trouble, so i will focus on upper body.

SJ69
02-04-2009, 04:37 AM
do you have any proof? not calling you a liar, just like to see some tests to back that up.

The aromatase enzyme that converts Test into Estrogen is found in higher quantities in fat tissue (I don't have a link, but you google that)
I believe Primo can cause gyno. (t0o expensive for too little gain also)
Winstrol IMO is not a good choice for many reasons (joints, better results when you have lower BF, etc)
If I was you and was to run a cycle right now it would be Test and Tren.
You always need Test and Tren is the closest thing you'll find to a body recomp drug. No pills, no need (except ephedrine). Anti-E on hand if needed. Just MHO.

BasLandis
02-04-2009, 05:00 AM
so it seems i need to lose weight first, then add gear.......i was looking to aid my weight loss/injury with gear first. ive heard others use gear at big body fat %/injuries and have GREAT results. once i start im worried about my knee, its the biggest reason why i want to aid my weight loss. dark clouds hit me before in losing my health insurance months before the big car wreck. afterwards i slow slipped back to my 270 LB frame. and used my knee/neck/back as reason to why i couldnt workout. my knee is my crutch and it stills worrys me. still im ready(soon) to attack this.

sorry my posting is hard on the eyes. English is not my first language :spaz:

BasLandis
02-04-2009, 05:10 AM
The aromatase enzyme that converts Test into Estrogen is found in higher quantities in fat tissue (I don't have a link, but you google that)
I believe Primo can cause gyno. (t0o expensive for too little gain also)
Winstrol IMO is not a good choice for many reasons (joints, better results when you have lower BF, etc)
If I was you and was to run a cycle right now it would be Test and Tren.
You always need Test and Tren is the closest thing you'll find to a body recomp drug. No pills, no need (except ephedrine). Anti-E on hand if needed. Just MHO.

what do test, tren, anti-E stand for?(still a noob)

yea the winstrol had me worried about joints too.

thanks for input:thumb:

yokedmofo
02-04-2009, 08:49 AM
Its probably a real good idea to lose the weight first before trying a first cycle(it is first right?). IMO doing both at the same time can fight against eachother. Hard to gain the muscle you could be making on a cycle when trying to lose a bunch of weight. the A-B cup will disappear once you start to lose the fat and if you have had puberty gyno in youger years, when you lose the fat around the pec area and your pec muscles begin to show through more most or all of the fatty tissue around the nip will vanish.

test= testosterone
tren= trenbolone
anti-e= anti-estrogen
You dont need to worry about juicing right now, test will not work so good on the appeal of your fat loss diet(cause of water retention and appitite control). Hang around this site and ask questions, read through the posts and old post and stickies. You will learn all you need to know about juicing and juices in no time.

And listen well to whatever "BUILT" says she will give you very good advise. Her body speaks for itself!

SJ69
02-04-2009, 10:16 AM
test will not work so good on the appeal of your fat loss diet(cause of water retention and appitite control). !

I agree it's best to wait a little and learn.
But I disagree about the test, you really need to run test on any cycle, unless you can live with the fact you shut down your own test and now have less test in your system than a girl scout. The Anti-E will help with bloat if it becomes a problem.
And many people cycle will on a cut to at least preserve muscle while loosing mass. Me personally though I agree, I'd rather cycle while bulking.

Built
02-04-2009, 11:46 AM
Aromatase does indeed reside in fat. Drop some of that fat before you run anything - as you lean out and actually risk muscle-loss, the cycle makes better sense. If you run it now, you'll blow up from all the estrogen.

None of it will make you lose weight. That part comes from eating less food, flat out. No need to do any cardio at all to make this happen at first, although if you can do a little walking it'll do you a world of good.

BasLandis
02-05-2009, 04:21 AM
Its probably a real good idea to lose the weight first before trying a first cycle(it is first right?). IMO doing both at the same time can fight against eachother. Hard to gain the muscle you could be making on a cycle when trying to lose a bunch of weight. the A-B cup will disappear once you start to lose the fat and if you have had puberty gyno in youger years, when you lose the fat around the pec area and your pec muscles begin to show through more most or all of the fatty tissue around the nip will vanish.

test= testosterone
tren= trenbolone
anti-e= anti-estrogen
You dont need to worry about juicing right now, test will not work so good on the appeal of your fat loss diet(cause of water retention and appitite control). Hang around this site and ask questions, read through the posts and old post and stickies. You will learn all you need to know about juicing and juices in no time.

And listen well to whatever "BUILT" says she will give you very good advise. Her body speaks for itself!

first is right, years before i always pasted. after my accident and learning more, i reopened my mind. i just got to get my mind right, so i can commit to diet and training. i know it can to done, since i did it before, just my knee.................i dont want to start and have my knee put a stop to it. i fear it will. i hold a new respect for knee injuries.

whats your take on trenbolone acetate? ive dropped my winny and primo idea. tren seems to solve more of my problems along with other positives pluses. regarding tren ive seen it says "pellets", but the picture shows a liquid, :confused:

BasLandis
02-05-2009, 04:33 AM
Aromatase does indeed reside in fat. Drop some of that fat before you run anything - as you lean out and actually risk muscle-loss, the cycle makes better sense. If you run it now, you'll blow up from all the estrogen.

None of it will make you lose weight. That part comes from eating less food, flat out. No need to do any cardio at all to make this happen at first, although if you can do a little walking it'll do you a world of good.

i believe i could mix in walking, too scared to try running. my former training involved plenty of knee actions, which im trying to avoid. i hope to go 90% upper body and 10% lower. i will try my stationary bike out and see what happens as well. ill need to inventive as well, cause i know how boring it can be doing all upper body. ill mix in some of arm wrestling exercises too.

hope to start soon.

yokedmofo
02-05-2009, 08:00 AM
I came from your exact back ground. Had horrible knee blow out that took 8 months to heal and then still wasnt at its best. Try to remember what Arnold said in "Bodybuilding Encyclopidia". After a limb or body part is wounded it heals stronger than it was before(after work ofcourse). And appearently in his case with also a knee injury it happend that way. I on the otherhand still have little problems here and there. But my knee is definetly strong as ox bone. Always remember to lube the joint well before heavy weights(riding bike, light extentions,etc..)

Tren is ok at helping with a diet(a little) and keeping muscle while doing that. But that is a very strong drug for first time cycle. You can have very bad aggression, sleep patterns, libido issues and so on. i agree test is a good safe way to begin a juicing lifestyle, its safe at moderate doses. But like Built and I both said not a good choice while fat loss is your primary goal. Its best IMO to try a cycle after cutting a little and a few months(or more) of intense training. That way you get the most out of your cycle and money.

yokedmofo
02-05-2009, 08:08 AM
Pellets are what farmers give their cattle to gain weight. Some humans can crush them up and convert them into an injectable liquid.

And if your going to go with gear despite all other advise. You might want to look into deca durabolin(Nandrolone). The deca will hold fluids in your joints and may help a bit considering your knee joint issue. I know my knee has always felt strong and good while on deca. Though it will give you a puffy look at times depending on the day so again best to lose the weight first.

Mudge
02-05-2009, 09:10 AM
Walking is great.

BasLandis
02-06-2009, 05:18 AM
I came from your exact back ground. Had horrible knee blow out that took 8 months to heal and then still wasnt at its best. Try to remember what Arnold said in "Bodybuilding Encyclopidia". After a limb or body part is wounded it heals stronger than it was before(after work ofcourse). And appearently in his case with also a knee injury it happend that way. I on the otherhand still have little problems here and there. But my knee is definetly strong as ox bone. Always remember to lube the joint well before heavy weights(riding bike, light extentions,etc..)

Tren is ok at helping with a diet(a little) and keeping muscle while doing that. But that is a very strong drug for first time cycle. You can have very bad aggression, sleep patterns, libido issues and so on. i agree test is a good safe way to begin a juicing lifestyle, its safe at moderate doses. But like Built and I both said not a good choice while fat loss is your primary goal. Its best IMO to try a cycle after cutting a little and a few months(or more) of intense training. That way you get the most out of your cycle and money.

i was told to ice my knee pre-workout..........:confused:

i will not cycle until i have 4-6 weeks of training and diet. im just gathering information.

i asked when is a good time and no one gave me a response, so im guessing on 4-6 weeks.

BasLandis
02-06-2009, 05:18 AM
Walking is great.

what about jogging?

Built
02-06-2009, 07:40 AM
I'm not a fan of jogging. SPRINTING, that's a good thing, so is walking, but I don't much trust the middle-speeds...

Shadowcam
02-07-2009, 01:43 AM
i was told to ice my knee pre-workout..........:confused:

i will not cycle until i have 4-6 weeks of training and diet. im just gathering information.

i asked when is a good time and no one gave me a response, so im guessing on 4-6 weeks.

If you still insist on using steroids then wait till you get below 10% bf, by that time you will have done lots of research on what your about to put in your body. In 4-6 weeks your bodyfat will probally still be on the high side so not a good idea because of reasons mentioned in previous posts. Dont look for easy options, there is none.

Shadowcam
02-07-2009, 01:46 AM
I'm not a fan of jogging. SPRINTING, that's a good thing, so is walking, but I don't much trust the middle-speeds...

Built, I thought you were against cardio?

Built
02-07-2009, 11:37 AM
By itself, for fat loss, you bet I am.

As a training modality for heart health, conditioning, building mitochondrial and capillary density - now that's a different story.

yokedmofo
02-07-2009, 12:59 PM
10% BF??? That might be awhile!

But im a fat diabetic what do i know

Built
02-07-2009, 01:50 PM
Type I or II, mofo?

Built
02-07-2009, 01:50 PM
PS I really like calling you "mofo" LMAO!

HialeahChico305
02-07-2009, 03:30 PM
:haha:

Shadowcam
02-07-2009, 08:22 PM
10% BF??? That might be awhile!

But im a fat diabetic what do i know

It will take a while thats why I suggested it!

Shadowcam
02-07-2009, 08:25 PM
By itself, for fat loss, you bet I am.

As a training modality for heart health, conditioning, building mitochondrial and capillary density - now that's a different story.

That makes sense! cardio without some sort of resistance training is not a good idea for many reasons.

lvtrirugby
02-07-2009, 11:32 PM
I came from your exact back ground. Had horrible knee blow out that took 8 months to heal and then still wasnt at its best. Try to remember what Arnold said in "Bodybuilding Encyclopidia". After a limb or body part is wounded it heals stronger than it was before(after work ofcourse). And appearently in his case with also a knee injury it happend that way. I on the otherhand still have little problems here and there. But my knee is definetly strong as ox bone. Always remember to lube the joint well before heavy weights(riding bike, light extentions,etc..)


Precisely. The best way to make that knee stronger, is to make it stronger. Given the compromised structural integrity it is crucial to increase the muscularity around the joint. Further, dropping your weight will help relieve the stress placed on the joint. I would work your legs hard with exercises focusing on range of motion and strength development. Start with leg presses and extensions/curls and avoid hack squats, lunges, and back/front squats until the joint is supported properly. Another point you brought up is that you want to focus 90 percent on upper body and 10 percent on lower body?? Dude, the muscles that use the most calories and release the highest levels of GH when used are below the waist! Also, you don't want the inverted pyramid body, that's never a good look. Also consider that additional muscle will burn more calories while exercising and each pound takes about 2300 calories to build. I would recommend, as I do to any client, that resistance training is an integral part of any weight reduction program. You will come out looking better and feeling stronger than if you just drop a bunch of fat. Keep in mind that the ratio of weight training to cardio is different for females given the lower capacity to generate muscle.

Built
02-08-2009, 12:04 AM
Precisely. The best way to make that knee stronger, is to make it stronger. Given the compromised structural integrity it is crucial to increase the muscularity around the joint. Further, dropping your weight will help relieve the stress placed on the joint. I would work your legs hard with exercises focusing on range of motion and strength development. Start with leg presses and extensions/curls and avoid hack squats, lunges, and back/front squats until the joint is supported properly. Another point you brought up is that you want to focus 90 percent on upper body and 10 percent on lower body?? Dude, the muscles that use the most calories and release the highest levels of GH when used are below the waist! Also, you don't want the inverted pyramid body, that's never a good look. Also consider that additional muscle will burn more calories while exercising and each pound takes about 2300 calories to build. I would recommend, as I do to any client, that resistance training is an integral part of any weight reduction program. You will come out looking better and feeling stronger than if you just drop a bunch of fat. Keep in mind that the ratio of weight training to cardio is different for females given the lower capacity to generate muscle.

That 2300 figure is one I've seen before - do you know how it was derived? I've always wondered.

Also, that last part, about the ratio of weight training to cardio being different for females... I don't disagree about the capacity to generate muscle, but what ratio of cardio to weight training are you referring to?

yokedmofo
02-08-2009, 02:01 AM
Type I or II, mofo?

Built, That would be Type I.


And I really am a mofo. Literally!;)

Built
02-08-2009, 07:13 AM
How long you been type I?

And how long you been a mofo - how many kids you got?

BasLandis
02-08-2009, 10:00 AM
If you still insist on using steroids then wait till you get below 10% bf, by that time you will have done lots of research on what your about to put in your body. In 4-6 weeks your bodyfat will probally still be on the high side so not a good idea because of reasons mentioned in previous posts. Dont look for easy options, there is none.


10% ??? i think the lasted time i was that low, i just turned 2 hours old.:wacko:

ive done research to the point where its mind numbing and started to get confused with unanswered questions. so i took a different tacit and came here to ask for input. why is it most gear users always shun using? before i use, i will come here and ask if the timing is right. it may be longer than 4-6 weeks(that was my guess). i will listen and gather information then make a decision.

good news i may start this week, girlfriend who help get me fat( ;) ) is leaving for business. she is the smart one, always fixed me cakes, italian meals, and pies. brought me all sort of video games, HD project, and beer tap. it was a great plan to keep me home and before i realize what she had done it was too late, i had turned to teh darkside.

BasLandis
02-08-2009, 10:02 AM
10% BF??? That might be awhile!

But im a fat diabetic what do i know


i think we are kin, too much alike.

BasLandis
02-08-2009, 10:15 AM
Precisely. The best way to make that knee stronger, is to make it stronger. Given the compromised structural integrity it is crucial to increase the muscularity around the joint. Further, dropping your weight will help relieve the stress placed on the joint. I would work your legs hard with exercises focusing on range of motion and strength development. Start with leg presses and extensions/curls and avoid hack squats, lunges, and back/front squats until the joint is supported properly. Another point you brought up is that you want to focus 90 percent on upper body and 10 percent on lower body?? Dude, the muscles that use the most calories and release the highest levels of GH when used are below the waist! Also, you don't want the inverted pyramid body, that's never a good look. Also consider that additional muscle will burn more calories while exercising and each pound takes about 2300 calories to build. I would recommend, as I do to any client, that resistance training is an integral part of any weight reduction program. You will come out looking better and feeling stronger than if you just drop a bunch of fat. Keep in mind that the ratio of weight training to cardio is different for females given the lower capacity to generate muscle.

i know if i went to a doctor, the first thing he would say is lose weight you fat@ss. im scared to run and do anything that would put great force on my knee. you are right about strengthening the muscles around the knee. i want to play it safe in the beginning.

aaaahhh yes the inverted pyramid body is worrisome too. i dont want to look like johnny phone books, but i hope to readjust after i get some confidence in my knee. resistance training is the way to go, i need more cheap ideas about resistance training. i only have one brand too.

besides leg presses and extensions/curls calf rises, what else would you recommend? How hard would you go in the early stages?

good input thanks! :thumb:

BasLandis
02-08-2009, 10:19 AM
*just for early research purposes*

what stacks well with trenbolone?

lvtrirugby
02-08-2009, 11:43 PM
i know if i went to a doctor, the first thing he would say is lose weight you fat@ss. im scared to run and do anything that would put great force on my knee. you are right about strengthening the muscles around the knee. i want to play it safe in the beginning.

aaaahhh yes the inverted pyramid body is worrisome too. i dont want to look like johnny phone books, but i hope to readjust after i get some confidence in my knee. resistance training is the way to go, i need more cheap ideas about resistance training. i only have one brand too.

besides leg presses and extensions/curls calf rises, what else would you recommend? How hard would you go in the early stages?

good input thanks! :thumb:

I have rehabbed athletes with complete acl and mcl tears and we always start with light leg extensions and curls, followed by step-ups, legs presses, then body weight squats (progressing to single-leg squats). Eventually, the athlete should progress to traditional squats, starting with front squats (structure dependent) and moving to back squats, hack squats and lunges. There are also dynamic movements I like to incorporate, including side traveling squats with resistant ankle bands and step-over/unders, aka hurdles. I also like stair runs with medicine balls for leg strength and metabolic conditioning. Spin bikes are also crucial in the rehab of the knee and provide a good cardio workout with low impact. I hope this helps.

lvtrirugby
02-08-2009, 11:52 PM
That 2300 figure is one I've seen before - do you know how it was derived? I've always wondered.

Also, that last part, about the ratio of weight training to cardio being different for females... I don't disagree about the capacity to generate muscle, but what ratio of cardio to weight training are you referring to?
That is from one of my sports nutrition books I have somewhere. The most purported values are between 2200 and 2300 calories to produce 1 lb. of muscle. My point in the ratio is that men, having larger muscle mass and capacity to attain larger muscle mass, can burn more calories while weight training than women; therefore, a higher percentage of cardiovascular exercise versus resistance training is required for women to create the same caloric deficit. I hope this answers your question?

Built
02-09-2009, 12:09 AM
Well, sort of.

You're assuming I'd want to look to exercise for my caloric deficit.
Surely you know why this is a bad idea for women?

PS which text book - I'd like to have the reference on file.

yokedmofo
02-09-2009, 12:48 AM
10% ??? i think the lasted time i was that low, i just turned 2 hours old.:wacko:
good news i may start this week, girlfriend who help get me fat( ;) ) is leaving for business. she is the smart one, always fixed me cakes, italian meals, and pies. brought me all sort of video games, HD project, and beer tap. it was a great plan to keep me home and before i realize what she had done it was too late, i had turned to teh darkside.



THAT BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yell: leave me here with my bouncing belly:hog: while she goes off and hits the dance floor!?!?!?!?!:mad:

I'll get even with her!:thinking:...........

...6 months later :whip::lifter::flex:

yokedmofo
02-09-2009, 01:03 AM
How long you been type I?

And how long you been a mofo - how many kids you got?



about 9 years,2 and since I was about 19 years old or so:banana:

yokedmofo
02-09-2009, 01:25 AM
*just for early research purposes*

what stacks well with trenbolone?

protein and quality calories. Testosterone

VictorZ06
02-09-2009, 04:48 AM
*just for early research purposes*

what stacks well with trenbolone?

Test & mast. ;)

lvtrirugby
02-09-2009, 11:40 PM
Well, sort of.

You're assuming I'd want to look to exercise for my caloric deficit.
Surely you know why this is a bad idea for women?

PS which text book - I'd like to have the reference on file.

Sure, you may not want the caloric deficit but BasLandis does. I didn't mean to say that you should create the deficit primarily by exercise because weight loss by that mechanism is slow but if it (weight loss) is your goal then men can burn more calories resistance training than women. I'm not sure what you're getting at in reference to women...? They burn fewer calories resistance training than men and have a naturally lower capacity for muscular hypertrophy- just the way it is. I'll try to find the reference tomorrow. It will take some digging...

Built
02-09-2009, 11:54 PM
Sure, you may not want the caloric deficit but BasLandis does. I didn't mean to say that you should create the deficit primarily by exercise because weight loss by that mechanism is slow but if it (weight loss) is your goal then men can burn more calories resistance training than women. I'm not sure what you're getting at in reference to women...? They burn fewer calories resistance training than men and have a naturally lower capacity for muscular hypertrophy- just the way it is.

Recall you were the one who suggested women needed more cardio to create the deficit (see below). I'm just following up on that.

Re muscular hypertrophy, no kidding! However, nobody's packing on the slabs during a cut.

There are any number of reasons why I don't recommend creating much cutting deficit through exercise, at least not for unassisted athletes.

For one, it really doesn't burn very many calories, not for the work it feels like. For another, you start to risk more and more LBM the leaner you are. None of this is news to you, of course, but it sets up the rest of what I will say.

Since women have less test AND less muscle mass, not only do we not burn very many calories, we have less testosterone to protect what little lbm we have.

But even that's not my primary concern. For women, exercise ramps up appetite in a way that it generally does not in men - a fact that many even in the industry fail to recognize. We try to exercise off the weight, it REALLY bites us in the ass.

I'll look forward to that textbook reference, for the calories required for muscle gain. I appreciate that it might be a pain in the ass to dig up, but I surely would appreciate it.
__________________________________________________ __

That is from one of my sports nutrition books I have somewhere. The most purported values are between 2200 and 2300 calories to produce 1 lb. of muscle. My point in the ratio is that men, having larger muscle mass and capacity to attain larger muscle mass, can burn more calories while weight training than women; therefore, a higher percentage of cardiovascular exercise versus resistance training is required for women to create the same caloric deficit. I hope this answers your question?


Well, sort of.

You're assuming I'd want to look to exercise for my caloric deficit.
Surely you know why this is a bad idea for women?

PS which text book - I'd like to have the reference on file.

BasLandis
02-10-2009, 05:22 AM
I have rehabbed athletes with complete acl and mcl tears and we always start with light leg extensions and curls, followed by step-ups, legs presses, then body weight squats (progressing to single-leg squats). Eventually, the athlete should progress to traditional squats, starting with front squats (structure dependent) and moving to back squats, hack squats and lunges. There are also dynamic movements I like to incorporate, including side traveling squats with resistant ankle bands and step-over/unders, aka hurdles. I also like stair runs with medicine balls for leg strength and metabolic conditioning. Spin bikes are also crucial in the rehab of the knee and provide a good cardio workout with low impact. I hope this helps.

http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/935/clapqy9ms9.gif

could you please explain these in more detail: structure dependent, hack squats, side traveling squats, hurdles, caloric deficit.

while doing stairs is the medicine balls held with hands or legs? and what position?

how hard do i push in the early stages? :spaz:

BasLandis
02-10-2009, 05:25 AM
THAT BITCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :yell: leave me here with my bouncing belly:hog: while she goes off and hits the dance floor!?!?!?!?!:mad:

I'll get even with her!:thinking:...........

...6 months later :whip::lifter::flex:

http://img4.imageshack.us/img4/1584/ilolxp3.jpg

BasLandis
02-10-2009, 05:27 AM
Test & mast. ;)


mast is short for ______?

VictorZ06
02-10-2009, 06:57 AM
Masteron. Prob my favorite compound out there.

lvtrirugby
02-10-2009, 11:26 PM
http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/935/clapqy9ms9.gif

could you please explain these in more detail: structure dependent, hack squats, side traveling squats, hurdles, caloric deficit.

while doing stairs is the medicine balls held with hands or legs? and what position?

how hard do i push in the early stages? :spaz:

That is why I get paid the big bucks... In a nutshell, caloric deficit= expending more calories than you consume; by structure dependent I mean that the joint has healed to the point where it can take a certain applied stress- range of motion is also a key aspect (how well the knee can be flexed). Hack squats are done on a hack squat machine or using a smith machine. a side travelling squat is done laterally with a squat at two points- one narrow and one wide. With the addition of a resistance band/cuff you can add strain to the knee and make it, and other muscular areas, i.e. gluteus medius, vastus lateralis, stronger. If you google hurdles or over/unders you should figure out what I am talking about. Hold the medicine ball with your arms as straight as possible and begin by climbing the stairs while skipping at least one step. The immediate goal is to keep the knee at approximately 90 degrees. Then advance to the next step. Eventually, work up to running the stairs by skipping one or two stairs each leap. Holding the ball will not only increase resistance but it will work your core muscles as well.