Cutting diet for a family man

T_man · 06-08-2009, 04:06 PM

My mum runs the house until I move out in september (by when I aim to have finnished my cut), so she runs most of my food and all I can do is either eat more or eat less. I think keto is out of the question, what would be a good diet type for me??

I'm 184lbs around 15-16% bf and want to be either 10% or below by september. Is this realistic?

Also what supplements would you suggest for cutting, to maintain as much muscle, suppress hunger, keep high energy levels etc. I need everything in a list please, even the obvious ones like fish oil and multis.

Thanks

Whatsaroid? · 06-08-2009, 05:04 PM

All you need is HIIT cardio once or twice a day

I ate everything I could find and drank a 100 gram protein shake every morning and all I did was bike 18 miles to work and back with a light gym workout on my lunch break.

You might not be able to do anything like that but you CAN do HIIT cardio twice a day and add push ups and/or box jumps.

quadluver · 06-08-2009, 06:31 PM

Tell your mom to make lots of chicken and fish dishes for you. Ask her to not tempt you by buying snacks, sodas and ask her not to bake anything for a while. Once she starts baking... forgetaboutit.

**Merkaba** · 06-09-2009, 12:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by quadluver

Tell your mom to make lots of chicken and fish dishes for you. Ask her to not tempt you by buying snacks, sodas and ask her not to bake anything for a while. Once she starts baking... forgetaboutit.

lol...

I say if youre still living with your mom and she's decent, which sounds like she is....forgetaboutit. You should be on fitday everyday to counteract her evil momness.

T_man · 06-11-2009, 11:01 AM

i need to burn round about 10-12 lbs is my plan (get me to 8/9%), how long do you think this will take me??

**Merkaba** · 06-12-2009, 12:34 AM

Alot of that will be water weight. Losing more than a couple a weeek is pretty uncomfortable for me. If youre doing it just by diet watching don't expect much more than that if youre trying to hold onto your muscle in the process. This would mean youre getting about 70 to 75% maintenance. I do intermittent fasting and or a similar approach. as part of my cutting now. I can go a good while without eating.

Yanick · 06-12-2009, 01:32 PM

Yeah IF would probably be the best way. Pick 2 days where you won't eat for 24 hours. P-funk did an interview with a guy who wrote the book on IF, Brad Pilon here.

The 2 days create a nice deficit for you and as long as you don't gorge yourself on the other days (maintain a well portioned and balanced diet) you'll lose the weight.

The other thing that I could suggest is a simple carb cycle. Switch between no carb days and carb days. Or you could throw in med carb days. So no carb days are self explanatory. Med carb days might be carbs around w/o and high carbs are carbs at every meal. You can adjust which days are which based on progress and comfort etc.

Although I haven't tried the 24hr IF thing I do a daily ~14-16hr IF and love it but I also track all of my calories and do it more for comfort. I have done the carb cycling and got into good shape while not splitting hairs over every oz of chicken or gram of oatmeal.

T_man · 06-12-2009, 02:23 PM

IF sounds like a kinda hard thing in my position. Carb cycling I could do though, zero carb days would be hard physically but its easy picking out carbs from would-be meals.

What do you mean by dietting only merkaba?? do you mean exercise too?? I'm gonna be doing HIIT 2/3 times a week and swimming twice a week

Yanick · 06-12-2009, 02:29 PM

I would think that IF fits you perfectly since you don't have to be all anal about your food intake. In fact Pilon goes into this on the podcast, the fact that this way of eating lends itself to having leeway when you are eating. You won't have to worry about eating some pasta or whatever your mom happened to make that day.

As far as carb cycling, you should obviously have only 1 or 2 per week and keep them on the lowest activity days.

T_man · 06-12-2009, 04:56 PM

hmm
think I might bulk a bit more

bulk until I'm ready to use pH. then i'll use pH to cut, maintaining muscle & burning fat??

**Built** · 06-12-2009, 07:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yanick

As far as carb cycling, you should obviously have only 1 or 2 per week and keep them on the lowest activity days.

Why would you want to do it this way, Yanick?

When I carb cycle, I use the high days for lifting, and the low days for rest or steady state cardio.

Got Built? » How to set up a diet - basic carb cycling

(I don't do "zero" carb days by the way T_man. I don't think they're necessary, at least not for the kind of cutting you and I do.)

Yanick · 06-12-2009, 11:27 PM

I should've been clear. No carb days would be on lowest activity days and would be only 1 or 2 per week. They are never truly no carb of course, you get the trace stuff from dressings, nuts and nut butters and such but you don't have any 'carb foods.' I just like that approach because its fairly easy to maintain while not needing to track every gram of food in your diet. I would only have 1 no carb day per week right after my insane weekend carb up to kick start the glycogen depletion and such and would actually go higher carb as the week progressed to keep my workouts fairly productive.

Last time I did this it went something like this;

Sun-carb up
Mon-no
Tues-med
Wed-med
Thurs-med
Fri-hi
sat-hi
repeat

med was pre and post w/o carbs and high days were carbs in all meals but still limited. It wasn't like I was getting 300g day, but I would have .5-1C oatmeal/meal for 3-4 meals. My energy was good, weights were progressing, bodyfat dropped and I was able to maintain a lean physique while not splitting hairs over every detail for close to a year. I wound up fucking it all up when I went to school though so I couldn't tell you how well it worked in the long run and ever since coming back I've been doing my typical weigh/measure everything and split hairs method lol.

**Built** · 06-13-2009, 03:25 AM

Ah, gotcha. I tried it that way, briefly. Too complicated. I just do high and low. MUCH easier.

gtbmed · 06-13-2009, 08:15 AM

I'm not cutting or anything like that, but I do try to limit my carb intake. I'll have some carbs early in the morning to replenish glycogen and around when I workout, but other than that I try to stay away from them.

**Built** · 06-13-2009, 11:14 AM

How come, gtbmed? (Not criticizing, just curious)

the7zen · 06-16-2009, 12:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_man

IF sounds like a kinda hard thing in my position. Carb cycling I could do though, zero carb days would be hard physically but its easy picking out carbs from would-be meals.

What do you mean by dietting only merkaba?? do you mean exercise too?? I'm gonna be doing HIIT 2/3 times a week and swimming twice a week

I second what Yanick said...IF will fit you nicely, its will be hard for couple of times then you will get used to it. My wife cooks very good food and she serves it with an extra table spoon of love

....very hard to say no to that and eat broccoli while my son and her enjoy the food during IF they wont bother me with anything.

T_man · 06-16-2009, 05:15 PM

I'm going to be doing quite a bit of cardio.

Doing HIIT + 20 mins steady state after 3 times a week and swimming atleast twice a week.

Then also playing soccer whenever and other activities.

Should I just drop my cals to maintenance or slightly below?? If not what is the best diet for someone wanting to maintain as much muscle while losing fat with cardio??

I wanna get in shape for the winter soccer season start so cardio-less is not an option for me (:

Yanick · 06-16-2009, 07:28 PM

Same as with anything. Tweak the kcal's until you find your sweet spot in terms of weight loss. With lots of activity you'll be able to eat more food and still drop the fat. If anything all that cardio and such will aid in partitioning your kcals better.

**Merkaba** · 06-16-2009, 09:48 PM

I wouldnt run a deficit at least not much of one, doing that much running but thats just me.

T_man · 06-17-2009, 05:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Merkaba

I wouldnt run a deficit at least not much of one, doing that much running but thats just me.

Yea thats why I asked if I should just run at maintenance.

Will I lose more muscle this way though even if I keep the protein & training up??

gtbmed · 06-17-2009, 01:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

How come, gtbmed? (Not criticizing, just curious)

I just feel like proteins/fats do a lot better job of controlling my hunger, plus I'm not particularly gifted genetically - I think I may be pretty sensitive to carbs.

I get the feeling, after I eat carbs, that I'm satiated for a short time, then I just want more. If I eat a nice piece of lean meat, I don't feel I need to eat.

Another thing is the time it takes to prepare food. Let's face it, many of us eat out of simple boredom. Generally preparing a piece of raw meat takes longer than preparing something high in carbs (at least in my experience), so for me, eating fewer carbs means more preparation time, means less desire to eat out of boredom.

T_man · 06-17-2009, 03:48 PM

See I have a dilemma.

I really like meats, so even if I was to cut out carbs I would just make up by eating more protein cos I just eat and eat and eat and eat protein.

BBQs.... mmmmm. I went to a BBQ and ate atleast atleast 2000 calories at the last one I went to. 8 chicken wings, a steak, 2 burgers, some zimbabwean sausages(theres more but cant remember)... mmmm

**Built** · 06-17-2009, 04:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtbmed

I just feel like proteins/fats do a lot better job of controlling my hunger, plus I'm not particularly gifted genetically - I think I may be pretty sensitive to carbs.

I get the feeling, after I eat carbs, that I'm satiated for a short time, then I just want more. If I eat a nice piece of lean meat, I don't feel I need to eat.

That's why I do it, too - protein promotes a great deal more satiety than carbohydrate.

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_man

See I have a dilemma.

I really like meats, so even if I was to cut out carbs I would just make up by eating more protein cos I just eat and eat and eat and eat protein.

You'd likely find you'd eat less, or you'd feel more satisfied on the same calories if you ate more protein and less sugars and starches. Most do.

T_man · 06-17-2009, 05:02 PM

True Built.

But anyways, would doing this much cardio lead to alot of muscle loss even though I wont be running a deficit?

Yanick · 06-17-2009, 05:28 PM

No, as long as you compensate and find the appropriate deficit muscle loss will be the same or probably even less secondary to activity aiding in (more) optimal nutrient partitioning.

T_man · 06-17-2009, 05:53 PM

Great.
So why do people not suggest burning off the weight?? Is it because it's hard to estimate how much you've burned off?

m11 · 06-17-2009, 06:11 PM

Your calorie intake is an easier variable to control than your energy expenditure.

Yanick · 06-17-2009, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m11

Your calorie intake is an easier variable to control than your energy expenditure.

Your on a BB'ing board. Every ounce of muscle is precious to BB'ers so the diet stays super tight and controlled to regulate just enough weight loss per week to make sure the ratio of fat to muscle loss is optimal. That doesn't mean you can't lose weight by increasing activity, many people, athletes included, do this and it works (these people don't care about muscle though, they need to make weight for competition and keep their performance up).

I'm not Merkaba and don't want to speak for him, but I'll take a shot in the dark about his recommendation. That amount of running plus training, and other sports you might play means lots of stress on your body. Couple that with a deficit and overtraining/injury is a big possibility. Thats why I said you need to tweak your kcals to create a suitable deficit for your new activity level. IE I eat 2k/day to cut now, if I all of a sudden start running 10miles/week, swimming on the weekends and playing other random pick up games plus all the training I do now, that 2k is no longer an adequate amount of calories even for cutting. My activity has skyrocketed and I need to increase accordingly.

T_man · 06-18-2009, 10:14 AM

What about bulking longer, then doing a PMSF, because even though i'll lose more muscle i'll have gained more, making the net muscle mass i have after cut similar??

06-08-2009, 04:06 PM	#1
T_man Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,244 Photos: 1	Cutting diet for a family man My mum runs the house until I move out in september (by when I aim to have finnished my cut), so she runs most of my food and all I can do is either eat more or eat less. I think keto is out of the question, what would be a good diet type for me?? I'm 184lbs around 15-16% bf and want to be either 10% or below by september. Is this realistic? Also what supplements would you suggest for cutting, to maintain as much muscle, suppress hunger, keep high energy levels etc. I need everything in a list please, even the obvious ones like fish oil and multis. Thanks Cheat on your girlfriend, not on your meal.

06-08-2009, 05:04 PM	#2
Whatsaroid? IronMagLabs Rep Elite Member Join Date: Apr 2009 Location: Santa Monica Ca Posts: 163 Photos: 3	All you need is HIIT cardio once or twice a day I ate everything I could find and drank a 100 gram protein shake every morning and all I did was bike 18 miles to work and back with a light gym workout on my lunch break. You might not be able to do anything like that but you CAN do HIIT cardio twice a day and add push ups and/or box jumps. IRONMAGLABS INC. www.IronMagLabs.com Quality Supplements For Bodybuilders; By Bodybuilders! Best Quote "You have two choices in life: you can stay single and be miserable, or get married...and wish you were dead." - W.W. Renwick

06-11-2009, 11:01 AM	#5
T_man Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,244 Photos: 1	i need to burn round about 10-12 lbs is my plan (get me to 8/9%), how long do you think this will take me?? Cheat on your girlfriend, not on your meal.

06-12-2009, 12:34 AM	#6
Merkaba "King of Cheat Meals" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: sc Posts: 1,625	Alot of that will be water weight. Losing more than a couple a weeek is pretty uncomfortable for me. If youre doing it just by diet watching don't expect much more than that if youre trying to hold onto your muscle in the process. This would mean youre getting about 70 to 75% maintenance. I do intermittent fasting and or a similar approach. as part of my cutting now. I can go a good while without eating. Ban 2 1/2 's !!!!!! -------------------------------------------- Some Pics. All Natural

06-12-2009, 01:32 PM	#7
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 4,231	Yeah IF would probably be the best way. Pick 2 days where you won't eat for 24 hours. P-funk did an interview with a guy who wrote the book on IF, Brad Pilon here. The 2 days create a nice deficit for you and as long as you don't gorge yourself on the other days (maintain a well portioned and balanced diet) you'll lose the weight. The other thing that I could suggest is a simple carb cycle. Switch between no carb days and carb days. Or you could throw in med carb days. So no carb days are self explanatory. Med carb days might be carbs around w/o and high carbs are carbs at every meal. You can adjust which days are which based on progress and comfort etc. Although I haven't tried the 24hr IF thing I do a daily ~14-16hr IF and love it but I also track all of my calories and do it more for comfort. I have done the carb cycling and got into good shape while not splitting hairs over every oz of chicken or gram of oatmeal. "The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge." -Barry Marshall, Nobel Laureate

06-08-2009, 06:31 PM	#3
quadluver Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Houston, TX Posts: 81	Tell your mom to make lots of chicken and fish dishes for you. Ask her to not tempt you by buying snacks, sodas and ask her not to bake anything for a while. Once she starts baking... forgetaboutit.

06-12-2009, 02:23 PM	#8
T_man Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,244 Photos: 1	IF sounds like a kinda hard thing in my position. Carb cycling I could do though, zero carb days would be hard physically but its easy picking out carbs from would-be meals. What do you mean by dietting only merkaba?? do you mean exercise too?? I'm gonna be doing HIIT 2/3 times a week and swimming twice a week Cheat on your girlfriend, not on your meal.

06-12-2009, 02:29 PM	#9
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 4,231	I would think that IF fits you perfectly since you don't have to be all anal about your food intake. In fact Pilon goes into this on the podcast, the fact that this way of eating lends itself to having leeway when you are eating. You won't have to worry about eating some pasta or whatever your mom happened to make that day. As far as carb cycling, you should obviously have only 1 or 2 per week and keep them on the lowest activity days. "The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge." -Barry Marshall, Nobel Laureate

06-12-2009, 04:56 PM	#10
T_man Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,244 Photos: 1	hmm think I might bulk a bit more bulk until I'm ready to use pH. then i'll use pH to cut, maintaining muscle & burning fat?? Cheat on your girlfriend, not on your meal.

06-12-2009, 11:27 PM	#12
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 4,231	I should've been clear. No carb days would be on lowest activity days and would be only 1 or 2 per week. They are never truly no carb of course, you get the trace stuff from dressings, nuts and nut butters and such but you don't have any 'carb foods.' I just like that approach because its fairly easy to maintain while not needing to track every gram of food in your diet. I would only have 1 no carb day per week right after my insane weekend carb up to kick start the glycogen depletion and such and would actually go higher carb as the week progressed to keep my workouts fairly productive. Last time I did this it went something like this; Sun-carb up Mon-no Tues-med Wed-med Thurs-med Fri-hi sat-hi repeat med was pre and post w/o carbs and high days were carbs in all meals but still limited. It wasn't like I was getting 300g day, but I would have .5-1C oatmeal/meal for 3-4 meals. My energy was good, weights were progressing, bodyfat dropped and I was able to maintain a lean physique while not splitting hairs over every detail for close to a year. I wound up fucking it all up when I went to school though so I couldn't tell you how well it worked in the long run and ever since coming back I've been doing my typical weigh/measure everything and split hairs method lol. "The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge." -Barry Marshall, Nobel Laureate

06-13-2009, 03:25 AM	#13
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,109	Ah, gotcha. I tried it that way, briefly. Too complicated. I just do high and low. MUCH easier. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

06-13-2009, 08:15 AM	#14
gtbmed Greg Join Date: Sep 2008 Location: Atlanta Posts: 370	I'm not cutting or anything like that, but I do try to limit my carb intake. I'll have some carbs early in the morning to replenish glycogen and around when I workout, but other than that I try to stay away from them. gtbmed's strength journal

06-13-2009, 11:14 AM	#15
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,109	How come, gtbmed? (Not criticizing, just curious) Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

06-16-2009, 05:15 PM	#17
T_man Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,244 Photos: 1	I'm going to be doing quite a bit of cardio. Doing HIIT + 20 mins steady state after 3 times a week and swimming atleast twice a week. Then also playing soccer whenever and other activities. Should I just drop my cals to maintenance or slightly below?? If not what is the best diet for someone wanting to maintain as much muscle while losing fat with cardio?? I wanna get in shape for the winter soccer season start so cardio-less is not an option for me (: Cheat on your girlfriend, not on your meal.

06-16-2009, 07:28 PM	#18
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 4,231	Same as with anything. Tweak the kcal's until you find your sweet spot in terms of weight loss. With lots of activity you'll be able to eat more food and still drop the fat. If anything all that cardio and such will aid in partitioning your kcals better. "The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge." -Barry Marshall, Nobel Laureate

06-16-2009, 09:48 PM	#19
Merkaba "King of Cheat Meals" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: sc Posts: 1,625	I wouldnt run a deficit at least not much of one, doing that much running but thats just me. Ban 2 1/2 's !!!!!! -------------------------------------------- Some Pics. All Natural

06-17-2009, 03:48 PM	#22
T_man Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,244 Photos: 1	See I have a dilemma. I really like meats, so even if I was to cut out carbs I would just make up by eating more protein cos I just eat and eat and eat and eat protein. BBQs.... mmmmm. I went to a BBQ and ate atleast atleast 2000 calories at the last one I went to. 8 chicken wings, a steak, 2 burgers, some zimbabwean sausages(theres more but cant remember)... mmmm Cheat on your girlfriend, not on your meal.

06-17-2009, 05:02 PM	#24
T_man Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,244 Photos: 1	True Built. But anyways, would doing this much cardio lead to alot of muscle loss even though I wont be running a deficit? Cheat on your girlfriend, not on your meal.

06-17-2009, 05:28 PM	#25
Yanick Amor Fati Join Date: Jul 2002 Posts: 4,231	No, as long as you compensate and find the appropriate deficit muscle loss will be the same or probably even less secondary to activity aiding in (more) optimal nutrient partitioning. "The greatest obstacle to knowledge is not ignorance but the illusion of knowledge." -Barry Marshall, Nobel Laureate

06-17-2009, 05:53 PM	#26
T_man Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,244 Photos: 1	Great. So why do people not suggest burning off the weight?? Is it because it's hard to estimate how much you've burned off? Cheat on your girlfriend, not on your meal.

06-17-2009, 06:11 PM	#27
m11 www.liftstrong.com Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: FL Posts: 857	Your calorie intake is an easier variable to control than your energy expenditure. Getting Started by Built LG Sciences Board Representative These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

06-18-2009, 10:14 AM	#29
T_man Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,244 Photos: 1	What about bulking longer, then doing a PMSF, because even though i'll lose more muscle i'll have gained more, making the net muscle mass i have after cut similar?? Cheat on your girlfriend, not on your meal.

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