Contemplating PSMF

Leviathan · 06-27-2009, 03:38 PM

I have never heard or done anything extreme as PSMF before, and I would like to try it.

But before I do, I would like a few spoonfed answers if anybody would it would be appreciated.

I weight 154 pounds, at 5'7. I am sixteen, and I do not look like I do a lot of hypertrophy. I want to begin hypertrophy, however my /left-over/ fat has been bugging me.

I used to weight 210 pounds at 5'4 when I was a year younger, and I had lost it all during my freshman year of highschool when I entered cross-country, swimming, and than finally rowing. During all of this conditioning I gained a significant amount of cardio threshold. Running a mile in 6 minutes and 5 seconds. However, even with my endurance, I am still carrying fat that will just not shed. Fat on my legs from the knee up, a bit of fat on the arms, chest, and stomach; and a bit on my back but I can't really measure that. I have tried regularly low-carb dieting with alternations of HIIT and slow cardio.

I would like to reach around 135 pounds, infact, I would actually just like to lose body fat as I don't care about my weight, but rather my BF%. Now, in all the articles I've appropriately read through, this can be achieved in about less than a month, which got me pretty giddy. But, i'm very bad at organizing food plans and what hours to eat them (if that matters or not)

I was thinking:
Morning: One serving size of GNC's wheybolic extreme 60 WPI (60G of protein)
~ approx 280 calories.
Cottage cheese: 30g of protein - 170 calories
Lunch:
Cottage cheese: 30g of protein - 170 calories.
veggies - either broccoli or spinach ~90~100 calories
Dinner:
Two pieces of chicken breast = 42g of protein and 240 calories.
broccoli or spinach ~ ~90~100 calories.

162g of protein and 1060 calories. (More calories, more protein?)

Workout:

Was just thinking of doing ten laps around balley total fitness' track which takes 25 seconds at my pace. It's about .8th a mile if I do ten laps around it. I was thinking of just doing one super intense mile as to keep increasing my cardio endurance.

As I have no job and my drivers ed is completed and no real responsibilities I can pretty much go to the gym every day.

1: Arms + chest
2: rest / 1 mile intense cardio and just nice easy swimmin in the pool.
3: Back
4: Legs
5: rest repeat 2
6: abs.
7: whatever day.

That's not going in order with the week, or in order really, but just how I have it planned out if I do go every day.

Anyways, just a quick revise and tips before I go into this would be nice. Gonna go to the store and buy some veggies and cottage cheese now... I've got about 18 chicken breasts in the freezer so I'm good for now...

**Built** · 06-27-2009, 06:10 PM

Leviathan, you have my utmost respect for having dropped this much weight at such a young age. You must be relieved - and you deserve to feel very proud of yourself.

Under ordinary circumstances, I'd tell a sixteen year old not to diet on PSMF. You, on the other hand, have already taken charge of your health and your diet, and I have no doubt that you are remarkable enough of a young person to be able to handle the rigours of a PSMF.

That being said, you aren't fat. Honest! I'm your height, female, middle-aged, and you only outweigh me by fifteen pounds. And I'm mid-cut!

What I would consider before I'd look at PSMF for you would be to maintain tight control of your calories and train as if you're bulking for a little while - slightly higher volume, movement-based training (heavy squats, deadlifts, chins, bench, cleans) and get some muscle on. You'll recompose nicely at your age, and your body is most likely ready.

Feel free to read the link in my sig on getting started - you're hardly a novice, but there may be some bits and pieces in that post that can help you.

Again, MAJOR props!

Leviathan · 06-27-2009, 07:29 PM

Thanks built, you gave me extra confidence.

I am already familiar with many of those exercises and have preformed them several times throughout conditioning of Rowing.

Physically, I am fine. However, I am very interested in this diet. I was wondering if 160~170 grams of protein was enough is all. I have the necessary vitamins too. And should I work out intensely even though Im consuming little too little calories?

I'm honestly hoping this will work so I can cut that extra fat off.

**Built** · 06-27-2009, 08:24 PM

Okay, if you simply MUST do this, please buy the book and read it. Once you have done so, drop me a PM and I'll help you set it up.

You need to understand how the diet and the training work together - it is NOT set up to work with intense training.

Go to Lyle McDonald's bodyrecomposition site and you can purchase it there. It's called "Rapid fat loss".

**P-funk** · 06-27-2009, 08:55 PM

Built for the win.

Listen to that advice. Don't try and "wing-it".

Patrick

powerlifter316 · 06-29-2009, 04:01 PM

Do not do this.

I used to be in your position. I had lost a lot of weight and was bugged by my "leftover fat" (which now seems silly to me). I spun my wheels for a couple of years doing this type of stuff, cutting diets that were really low in calories and that prevented me from making any gains. I truly regret wasting those couple of years I could have spent building more muscle.

You should gradually increase your protein and overall calorie intake and start to gain mass. Do not worry about your little bit of fat right now. In fact, don't worry about it for at least a couple of years. Gain some weight, get strong, and then reevaluate. It may bug you in the short term to have that little bit of fat there, but you will be glad you spent your best muscle building years gaining mass.

Tank316 · 06-29-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by powerlifter316

Do not do this.

I used to be in your position. I had lost a lot of weight and was bugged by my "leftover fat" (which now seems silly to me). I spun my wheels for a couple of years doing this type of stuff, cutting diets that were really low in calories and that prevented me from making any gains. I truly regret wasting those couple of years I could have spent building more muscle.

You should gradually increase your protein and overall calorie intake and start to gain mass. Do not worry about your little bit of fat right now. In fact, don't worry about it for at least a couple of years. Gain some weight, get strong, and then reevaluate. It may bug you in the short term to have that little bit of fat there, but you will be glad you spent your best muscle building years gaining mass.

IMHO. I think Built has him on the right track..

juggernaut · 06-29-2009, 05:07 PM

congrats on the weight loss; in particular about the book-pay VERY close attention and read it twice, especially how to end the diet. This is the trickier part.

How's it going Tank?

Tank316 · 06-29-2009, 05:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

congrats on the weight loss; in particular about the book-pay VERY close attention and read it twice, especially how to end the diet. This is the trickier part.

How's it going Tank?

Going good jugg, and you?

Leviathan · 06-29-2009, 10:36 PM

Well, Powerlifter, as a cross-country runner, swimmer, and rower... I don't have to build that much mass. Losing fat would be appropriate for all sports. Run faster with less baggage, swim faster, too; and rowing, as long as I'm below 150 pounds I'm in the lightweight division (and since I'm not over six foot, I wouldn't dare challenge any heavy weights as they are usually 6'1+ and 180 pounds of muscle or so....

Lose the fat, so I can reach my estimated goal (from 155 to 130~135 pounds) then Bulk up around 20 pounds of muscle and possibly stay this way... I'm not going to be interested in gaining massive strength until I'm older. Right now, my stamina and endurance is what I care about mostly, and the more LBM and less BF, the better. Infact, after I reach my fat loss goal, and accomplish 20 pounds of muscle or so, I'm going to start to ask the trusted members of this forum for tips on gaining muscle endurance...as pretty much all the sports im into is major muscle repetition.

**Built** · 06-29-2009, 10:52 PM

Leviathan, you have the book, right? Are you willing to find your way to a maintenance plan and do some heavier - and slightly higher volume - work for a few weeks before you hit the PSMF? It would set you up for better losses.

juggernaut · 06-30-2009, 05:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tank316

Going good jugg, and you?

Very well. Gym is going crazy-have a special going on and it really took off. I gained 70 new members off it. Cant complain.

juggernaut · 06-30-2009, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Leviathan, you have the book, right? Are you willing to find your way to a maintenance plan and do some heavier - and slightly higher volume - work for a few weeks before you hit the PSMF? It would set you up for better losses.

She knows whats she's talking about-she did it with me and I was absolutely astonished. Built, are you thinking of BGB for a term?

**Built** · 06-30-2009, 10:16 AM

That could work - or even basically training for a few weeks, with more food.

juggernaut · 06-30-2009, 11:06 AM

thats going to be a part of my maintenance period after the PSMF, but with baby got hammies....I like the name :P

Leviathan · 06-30-2009, 06:11 PM

Built, since you are very experienced, I will pretty much trust what you say on conditioning. If I should train more, and eat more and then try out PSMF, then I am ready. I'm just frightened because I don't want to never be able to go below 150 pounds or so... Rowing's only bias is that taller athletes have an advantage, and most tall athletes are way over 150 pounds just because of their height and such.

Set me up with a plan, built, or ask me as to what I can research (and yes, I have the book. I have all of Lyle's Books) as a friend gave me them. I will follow it, I promise.

**Built** · 06-30-2009, 07:43 PM

When do you need to be able to make weight? What's the timeline?

Leviathan · 06-30-2009, 10:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

When do you need to be able to make weight? What's the timeline?

April eighteen, 2010 is when I should be below 150 pounds.... (: I'm guessing I have shit loads of time to lose that body fat, huh?

Just came back from a four mile too...

**Built** · 07-01-2009, 02:33 AM

You have shit loads of time, yes. Plus I know how to get at least five pounds of water weight off you in a hurry.

juggernaut · 07-01-2009, 05:17 AM

Hmmmm...how?

**Built** · 07-01-2009, 02:08 PM

I published it up on WBB a while back, I'll clean it and the rest of my articles up eventually and ask Prince if he wants 'em.

nkira · 07-01-2009, 02:50 PM

Something to do with manipulating salt & water intake.....that article you wrote about it at WBB no longer exists.

juggernaut · 07-01-2009, 03:21 PM

It exists; I'm sure WBB played games.

juggernaut · 07-01-2009, 03:22 PM

In a sort of related way, Built, what is the cutoff weight for doing UD2? This pertains to me, setting myself up for it.

Tank316 · 07-01-2009, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

Very well. Gym is going crazy-have a special going on and it really took off. I gained 70 new members off it. Cant complain.

Thats good news, considering the way things are now a days!

**Built** · 07-01-2009, 08:55 PM

WBB's doing a re-org. I'm sure it'll be back eventually. It's my copyright so I'll get it posted soon.

Jugg, it's a bodyfat thing. I don't know your lbm.

nkira · 07-01-2009, 11:34 PM

Yesterday I tried searching for it at WBB, got the link but the website keeps giving error.....guess they are still re-organizing it.

juggernaut · 07-02-2009, 06:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Jugg, it's a bodyfat thing. I don't know your lbm.

I would put myself at 15-16%, fullt hydrated with a Tanita set at athlete level; I remembered that there was a bodyfat consideration, I just couldn't remember what the cutoff was.

m11 · 07-02-2009, 06:46 AM

Lyle puts the cutoff at 15%. You should be good to go.

nkira · 07-02-2009, 12:57 PM

Tanita Sucks, Bitch!

Try this take a measurement with tanita, then go pee or drink a glass of water or try pre & post workout measurement.....the difference in BF % reading will blow you away.

Get a DEXA or Hydro......

Quote:

Originally Posted by juggernaut

I would put myself at 15-16%, fullt hydrated with a Tanita set at athlete level; I remembered that there was a bodyfat consideration, I just couldn't remember what the cutoff was.

06-27-2009, 03:38 PM	#1
Leviathan Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Michigan, USA. Posts: 20	Contemplating PSMF I have never heard or done anything extreme as PSMF before, and I would like to try it. But before I do, I would like a few spoonfed answers if anybody would it would be appreciated. I weight 154 pounds, at 5'7. I am sixteen, and I do not look like I do a lot of hypertrophy. I want to begin hypertrophy, however my /left-over/ fat has been bugging me. I used to weight 210 pounds at 5'4 when I was a year younger, and I had lost it all during my freshman year of highschool when I entered cross-country, swimming, and than finally rowing. During all of this conditioning I gained a significant amount of cardio threshold. Running a mile in 6 minutes and 5 seconds. However, even with my endurance, I am still carrying fat that will just not shed. Fat on my legs from the knee up, a bit of fat on the arms, chest, and stomach; and a bit on my back but I can't really measure that. I have tried regularly low-carb dieting with alternations of HIIT and slow cardio. I would like to reach around 135 pounds, infact, I would actually just like to lose body fat as I don't care about my weight, but rather my BF%. Now, in all the articles I've appropriately read through, this can be achieved in about less than a month, which got me pretty giddy. But, i'm very bad at organizing food plans and what hours to eat them (if that matters or not) I was thinking: Morning: One serving size of GNC's wheybolic extreme 60 WPI (60G of protein) ~ approx 280 calories. Cottage cheese: 30g of protein - 170 calories Lunch: Cottage cheese: 30g of protein - 170 calories. veggies - either broccoli or spinach ~90~100 calories Dinner: Two pieces of chicken breast = 42g of protein and 240 calories. broccoli or spinach ~ ~90~100 calories. 162g of protein and 1060 calories. (More calories, more protein?) Workout: Was just thinking of doing ten laps around balley total fitness' track which takes 25 seconds at my pace. It's about .8th a mile if I do ten laps around it. I was thinking of just doing one super intense mile as to keep increasing my cardio endurance. As I have no job and my drivers ed is completed and no real responsibilities I can pretty much go to the gym every day. 1: Arms + chest 2: rest / 1 mile intense cardio and just nice easy swimmin in the pool. 3: Back 4: Legs 5: rest repeat 2 6: abs. 7: whatever day. That's not going in order with the week, or in order really, but just how I have it planned out if I do go every day. Anyways, just a quick revise and tips before I go into this would be nice. Gonna go to the store and buy some veggies and cottage cheese now... I've got about 18 chicken breasts in the freezer so I'm good for now...

06-27-2009, 06:10 PM	#2
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,064	Leviathan, you have my utmost respect for having dropped this much weight at such a young age. You must be relieved - and you deserve to feel very proud of yourself. Under ordinary circumstances, I'd tell a sixteen year old not to diet on PSMF. You, on the other hand, have already taken charge of your health and your diet, and I have no doubt that you are remarkable enough of a young person to be able to handle the rigours of a PSMF. That being said, you aren't fat. Honest! I'm your height, female, middle-aged, and you only outweigh me by fifteen pounds. And I'm mid-cut! What I would consider before I'd look at PSMF for you would be to maintain tight control of your calories and train as if you're bulking for a little while - slightly higher volume, movement-based training (heavy squats, deadlifts, chins, bench, cleans) and get some muscle on. You'll recompose nicely at your age, and your body is most likely ready. Feel free to read the link in my sig on getting started - you're hardly a novice, but there may be some bits and pieces in that post that can help you. Again, MAJOR props! Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

06-27-2009, 08:24 PM	#4
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,064	Okay, if you simply MUST do this, please buy the book and read it. Once you have done so, drop me a PM and I'll help you set it up. You need to understand how the diet and the training work together - it is NOT set up to work with intense training. Go to Lyle McDonald's bodyrecomposition site and you can purchase it there. It's called "Rapid fat loss". Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

06-27-2009, 08:55 PM	#5
P-funk Patrick Super Moderator Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: AZ Posts: 31,660	Built for the win. Listen to that advice. Don't try and "wing-it". Patrick E-Book: Take Charge! Everything You Need To Know To Write Your Own Training Programs Online Consulting/Program Design Reality Based Fitness Podcast Check me out on Twitter! Subscribe to our free monthly newsletter! "In the beginners mind there are many possibilities, in the experts there are few." -Buddha's Little Instruction Book

06-29-2009, 10:52 PM	#11
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,064	Leviathan, you have the book, right? Are you willing to find your way to a maintenance plan and do some heavier - and slightly higher volume - work for a few weeks before you hit the PSMF? It would set you up for better losses. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

06-27-2009, 07:29 PM	#3
Leviathan Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Michigan, USA. Posts: 20	Thanks built, you gave me extra confidence. I am already familiar with many of those exercises and have preformed them several times throughout conditioning of Rowing. Physically, I am fine. However, I am very interested in this diet. I was wondering if 160~170 grams of protein was enough is all. I have the necessary vitamins too. And should I work out intensely even though Im consuming little too little calories? I'm honestly hoping this will work so I can cut that extra fat off.

06-29-2009, 04:01 PM	#6
powerlifter316 Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Kansas Posts: 21	Do not do this. I used to be in your position. I had lost a lot of weight and was bugged by my "leftover fat" (which now seems silly to me). I spun my wheels for a couple of years doing this type of stuff, cutting diets that were really low in calories and that prevented me from making any gains. I truly regret wasting those couple of years I could have spent building more muscle. You should gradually increase your protein and overall calorie intake and start to gain mass. Do not worry about your little bit of fat right now. In fact, don't worry about it for at least a couple of years. Gain some weight, get strong, and then reevaluate. It may bug you in the short term to have that little bit of fat there, but you will be glad you spent your best muscle building years gaining mass.

06-29-2009, 05:07 PM	#8
juggernaut Creator of Chaos Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 5,463 Photos: 2	congrats on the weight loss; in particular about the book-pay VERY close attention and read it twice, especially how to end the diet. This is the trickier part. How's it going Tank?

06-29-2009, 10:36 PM	#10
Leviathan Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Michigan, USA. Posts: 20	Well, Powerlifter, as a cross-country runner, swimmer, and rower... I don't have to build that much mass. Losing fat would be appropriate for all sports. Run faster with less baggage, swim faster, too; and rowing, as long as I'm below 150 pounds I'm in the lightweight division (and since I'm not over six foot, I wouldn't dare challenge any heavy weights as they are usually 6'1+ and 180 pounds of muscle or so.... Lose the fat, so I can reach my estimated goal (from 155 to 130~135 pounds) then Bulk up around 20 pounds of muscle and possibly stay this way... I'm not going to be interested in gaining massive strength until I'm older. Right now, my stamina and endurance is what I care about mostly, and the more LBM and less BF, the better. Infact, after I reach my fat loss goal, and accomplish 20 pounds of muscle or so, I'm going to start to ask the trusted members of this forum for tips on gaining muscle endurance...as pretty much all the sports im into is major muscle repetition.

06-30-2009, 10:16 AM	#14
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,064	That could work - or even basically training for a few weeks, with more food. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

06-30-2009, 11:06 AM	#15
juggernaut Creator of Chaos Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 5,463 Photos: 2	thats going to be a part of my maintenance period after the PSMF, but with baby got hammies....I like the name :P

06-30-2009, 06:11 PM	#16
Leviathan Registered User Join Date: Jun 2009 Location: Michigan, USA. Posts: 20	Built, since you are very experienced, I will pretty much trust what you say on conditioning. If I should train more, and eat more and then try out PSMF, then I am ready. I'm just frightened because I don't want to never be able to go below 150 pounds or so... Rowing's only bias is that taller athletes have an advantage, and most tall athletes are way over 150 pounds just because of their height and such. Set me up with a plan, built, or ask me as to what I can research (and yes, I have the book. I have all of Lyle's Books) as a friend gave me them. I will follow it, I promise.

06-30-2009, 07:43 PM	#17
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,064	When do you need to be able to make weight? What's the timeline? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

07-01-2009, 02:33 AM	#19
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,064	You have shit loads of time, yes. Plus I know how to get at least five pounds of water weight off you in a hurry. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

07-01-2009, 05:17 AM	#20
juggernaut Creator of Chaos Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 5,463 Photos: 2	Hmmmm...how?

07-01-2009, 02:08 PM	#21
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,064	I published it up on WBB a while back, I'll clean it and the rest of my articles up eventually and ask Prince if he wants 'em. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

07-01-2009, 03:21 PM	#23
juggernaut Creator of Chaos Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 5,463 Photos: 2	It exists; I'm sure WBB played games.

07-01-2009, 03:22 PM	#24
juggernaut Creator of Chaos Elite Member Join Date: Jul 2004 Location: NJ Posts: 5,463 Photos: 2	In a sort of related way, Built, what is the cutoff weight for doing UD2? This pertains to me, setting myself up for it.

07-01-2009, 08:55 PM	#26
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,064	WBB's doing a re-org. I'm sure it'll be back eventually. It's my copyright so I'll get it posted soon. Jugg, it's a bodyfat thing. I don't know your lbm. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

07-02-2009, 06:46 AM	#29
m11 www.liftstrong.com Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: FL Posts: 847	Lyle puts the cutoff at 15%. You should be good to go. Getting Started by Built LG Sciences Board Representative These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

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