Big guy trying to get smaller

m11 · 08-24-2009, 06:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaoticone

well, 5-6 small meals a day, but I think that doing that will be much more difficult than hiit will be.

Any particular reason for eating 5-6 meals as opposed to a range that is more comfortable for you.

kaoticone · 08-24-2009, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m11

Any particular reason for eating 5-6 meals as opposed to a range that is more comfortable for you.

just trying to go by what was posted here, small meals throughout the day.

m11 · 08-24-2009, 07:01 AM

Ah.

I haven't noticed anything in this thread regarding meal frequency...maybe it was somewhere else.

Either way, as long as you are getting adequate pre workout nutrition, meal frequency isn't very important.

Typically, those eating a tremendous amount of calories each day find it easier to as many as six or seven meals a day in order to accommodate for large calorie counts . However, whether you choose to eat two meals or five, as long as your total caloric intake is within the proper range, meal frequency becomes relatively irrelevant.

As you mentioned, 5-6 meals may become tough---especially with regards to satiety. Feel free to eat as many meals per day as you find comfortable.

rahaas · 08-24-2009, 07:19 AM

M11 it was mention in one of the links I posted. Didn't want to overwhelm the guy any more than I already did.

T_man · 08-25-2009, 12:37 PM

I've read that for bulking meal frequency doesn't matter but when on a cut I read eating every 2-3 hours keeps your metabolism fired high. Any truths to this claim?

m11 · 08-25-2009, 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_man

I've read that for bulking meal frequency doesn't matter but when on a cut I read eating every 2-3 hours keeps your metabolism fired high. Any truths to this claim?

No. Where did you read this?

T_man · 08-25-2009, 03:25 PM

I cant remember i was researching meal frequency and I saw it posted on a couple of sites and forums.

They say because your body hardly goes into surplus at any one time all the food digested is either burnt or used in some sort of way instead of storing the carbs as fat then later breaking down muscle instead of fat. It reduces catabolism apparently in this way too.

rahaas · 08-25-2009, 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m11

No. Where did you read this?

Item #1 here: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/di...intenance.html (Guide to Cutting, Bulking & Maintenance)

kaoticone · 08-26-2009, 06:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MiletJohn

Your doctor is right, your problem is only for one part muscles hand. So, dont take any decision in panic.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. My doctor thinks I should keep trying to eat better and he thinks that I should keep jogging or start doing Hiit, he really wants me to get my bmi below 35, but he also says I'm a big guy, and that many football players have a high bmi and are not unhealthy.

rahaas · 08-26-2009, 06:44 AM

BMI is just an insurance company tool used to charge you more money for premiums and is otherwise useless. BF% is much more accurate way of determining if you are in healthy ranges.
My doc told me I'm "healthy fat". My BMI was way high but BF% is in the very low teens.

m11 · 08-26-2009, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by T_man

I cant remember i was researching meal frequency and I saw it posted on a couple of sites and forums.

They say because your body hardly goes into surplus at any one time all the food digested is either burnt or used in some sort of way instead of storing the carbs as fat then later breaking down muscle instead of fat. It reduces catabolism apparently in this way too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahaas

Item #1 here: http://www.ironmagazineforums.com/di...intenance.html (Guide to Cutting, Bulking & Maintenance)

Can we agree that one of the principle matters that lead to success whether during a cut or bulk is compliance?
The OP expressed his feelings towards having to eat 5 times each day. Although it is accepted that lifestyle changes do need to be made for him to be successful, I don't feel that increasing his meal frequency needs to be one.

There may or may not be benefits to frequent feedings. The intermittent fasting community has a little more information on the subject. Here's P-funk's podcast with Brad Pilon, author of Eat,Stop,Eat. There's some interesting information in both the podcast and the book.

Ultimately, if eating five or six times a day is what will cause him to give up, which it does in many, then I do not feel that it is worth making that particular change. Six months from now, he will not waste away from eating three times a day at deficit.

rahaas · 08-26-2009, 04:33 PM

I agree with you on the increased meal frequency topic. Just pointing out where the OP might have gotten the suggestion that it is necessary to eat more frequently.

T_man · 08-26-2009, 08:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m11

Can we agree that one of the principle matters that lead to success whether during a cut or bulk is compliance?
The OP expressed his feelings towards having to eat 5 times each day. Although it is accepted that lifestyle changes do need to be made for him to be successful, I don't feel that increasing his meal frequency needs to be one.

There may or may not be benefits to frequent feedings. The intermittent fasting community has a little more information on the subject. Here's P-funk's podcast with Brad Pilon, author of Eat,Stop,Eat. There's some interesting information in both the podcast and the book.

Ultimately, if eating five or six times a day is what will cause him to give up, which it does in many, then I do not feel that it is worth making that particular change. Six months from now, he will not waste away from eating three times a day at deficit.

About the intermittent fasting: you can't really eat every 2-3 hours on that really can you

But I was just throwing it out there and hopefully you guys could shed light on this topic to help the OP. We don't know how comfortable he is doing 3 meals a day or 6, we provide him with info and he does the choosing, but I'm not on either side of the fence on this topic.

kaoticone · 08-26-2009, 08:20 PM

I can say I prefer 3 meals a day, smaller or lower calorie meals, and a snack between meals, usually my snack is a granola bar or a few almonds.

m11 · 08-26-2009, 09:47 PM

Kaoticone, rahaas provided you with some excellent links on the first page. Please re-read the first link that he gave you (it is the same as the 'getting started by built' link in my signature).

Specifically, notice the part about tracking your calories.

Please sign up on FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal and track your calories for a few days. Come back with your total grams of fat, carbohydrates, protein, and fiber. No percentages.

Tracking will be an integral portion of getting the ball rolling towards reaching your goals.

kaoticone · 08-26-2009, 09:58 PM

great idea, but how do I know how many calories are in something like a sandwich? or 5 almonds? or the many bottles of water I drink? or other such stuff?
ok, I signed up, I know i will eat oatmeal for breakfast, and maybe a small banana, how can just add what I eat to it instead of choosing? plus I use lactose free reduced fat ilk in my oatmeal.
Now I see I can create a food. do you all recommend I add all the fat and what not? in calories, my oatmeal for breakfast with milk is 330.
Here's what that breakfast looks like so far without ALL the stuff, this includes milk and oatmeal.

m11 · 08-26-2009, 10:09 PM

Play around with fitday for a bit to get familiarized. The website has a very comprehensive database of foods.

You can also create custom foods for things that are not preprogrammed into the website. I 'create a custom food' for most of the things I eat because I more or less eat the same stuff day in and day out. If I start eating something new, I just create a new food for it.

Everything ultimately will be weighed or measured in a cup. So with almonds, you can weigh the almonds and input 30g or whatever the portion is for the 5 almonds into the site. Or, you can take like a 1/4 cup of almonds and input it that way. Play around, you'll figure it out.

For things like sandwiches, you can do one of two things:

You can break it into components (my preference). That is, input: 2 slices of bread, 5 slices turkey, 1 slice swiss cheese, 1 tbs mustard, 30g tomato, 25g lettuce. That's basically the idea. You can create a custom food for the turkey and the bread for accuracy. By the way, are you familiar with reading nutrition labels? If not, we can help you out.

or

If you make it the same way each day, you can just create it as custom food. So if you sandwich always is 2 slices of bread, 5 slices turkey, etc... you can add up all the macronutrients and just create 1 custom food called 'sandwich'. I don't prefer this method because I don't make my food the same way each day.

You following?

You do not need to input food that has no nutritional value (e.g diet soda, water, etc). Also, things like the lettuce I mentioned up there don't really have much going on in them. For this period of time in which we are trying to collect data on your intake, go ahead and put everything in except the foods that have 0 calories. When you get more familiarized, you'll see what you don't need to input.

Let us know if you have any questions.

kaoticone · 08-26-2009, 10:17 PM

I don't eat the same EVERy day, but I do many days, so I'll just create a sandwich like that. I have stopped drinking soda altogether, I hear that even diet soda is very bad. I have diabetes encipidus, which is crazy, so I'm always drinking something and I get bored with water, which I drink tons of. I do love powerade., but have cut back to about nothing on that as well.

m11 · 08-26-2009, 10:32 PM

Regarding diet soda, I've taken the stance that it is fine. Even if I do develop a cancer cell from my couple of diet pepsi cans when I'm 95 years old, then its a worthy trade off.

Nonetheless, get to tracking...looking forward to hearing back with your values.

T_man · 08-27-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m11

Regarding diet soda, I've taken the stance that it is fine. Even if I do develop a cancer cell from my couple of diet pepsi cans when I'm 95 years old, then its a worthy trade off.

Nonetheless, get to tracking...looking forward to hearing back with your values.

Doesn't diet soda have aspartame?

m11 · 08-27-2009, 12:05 PM

Revolution · 08-28-2009, 07:11 AM

I am very happy that you're putting in the effort here... As a bigger guy myself, I feel that I should explain what has always worked for me!

I have been an avid follower of Dr. Pain and his strong beliefs in Beverly Nutrition over the years...

I am currently 6'4" 260lbs...I used to be 6'4" 330 lbs in high school...

I would highly reccommend you do a forum search on "Dr. Pain" and read his posts...By following his Male Cutting Plans and teaching myself everything about insulin sensitivity and sugar (how it affects the body upon ingestion) I have been able to make extremely great strides over the years!

The diet consists of limiting yourself to NO SUGAR and keeping your carbs extremely low and COMPLEX! You can read more about it under Dr. Pain's posts! Also, "w8lifter" is another female BB you might be interested in following...She was studying under the "DP Methods" as well over the past couple of years and she has made great progress as well...

I can only say that this program has ALWAYS worked for me and my family...I have been able to implement this lifestyle into their lives and many of my clients that I train in the gym...

GOOD LUCK! Any questions, feel free to ask, I'd be happy to help...

kaoticone · 08-28-2009, 09:44 PM

Thanks.I think I just need to find a good workout combination and time, unfortunately both are very hard to determine.

kaoticone · 08-30-2009, 07:39 AM

well, I'm gonna restart the fit day tracking on monday, I missed 2 days and it won't let me change the day I ate something.

bodyforum1 · 09-05-2009, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaoticone

Hi everyone, I'm a big guy (6 ft tall, 270lbs), but I have much more fat than I'd like, I don't want to be built like arnold, and I don't wanna be a stick either. I started working out a year ago or so, and havent plateaued like most, I have been able to lose some fat and gain a lot of muscle through a variety of exercises and consistency while varying work out routines. Since my main goal i simply to lose fat, I have stopped all such exercise and now jog for 30 minutes 4 days a week. As far as my diet, I have greatly improved it, I mostly just drink water, no soda, and lots of water, I rarely eat out, I try to avoid sweets but am not as successful as I'd like, I'm working on it. I also have a number of health issues, but no diabetes or heart diseases or conditions. I'm basically just looking for any help anyone with experience can offer. I need to buy a treadmill since I hate jogging outside in this humidity in the mornings. Also, I used to weigh much less, but the muscle has shot my weight up, the doctor says to ignore the scale because it looks like its just muscle. Also, I've done protein shakes, etc to no avail, I'm looking at trying vitamin d supplement.

looks like u r very much determined to stay fit and healthy, but u r not able to find the right kind of a guidance. m not someone really experienced abt bodybuilding, but still can judge by ur posts that u have a concern and u are seeking a solution for it..

hope that u get some one good at it soon and helps u out of the problem.

thanks..
and all the best...

kaoticone · 09-07-2009, 12:06 PM

ok, here is the last week's eating.

I've gone back to my total gym, I think I'd get the best results running, but it seems to put a lot more strain on my body than the total gym, what are your thoughts?

**Built** · 09-07-2009, 12:09 PM

Your diet blows.

Please read the link in my sig on getting started. You'll see how to set up your diet and you'll be able to answer your own question about WHY your diet blows.

kaoticone · 09-07-2009, 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Your diet blows.

Please read the link in my sig on getting started. You'll see how to set up your diet and you'll be able to answer your own question about WHY your diet blows.

If its the newbie thing, I've read it, but not the do it yourself diet yet, I guess that's next.

**Built** · 09-07-2009, 01:27 PM

If you read the newbie thing, why are you dieting on 30g of protein a day?

kaoticone · 09-07-2009, 11:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

If you read the newbie thing, why are you dieting on 30g of protein a day?

I don't know, I always thought that eating more protein was a good thing, plus when I eat less protein, I get hungrier more quickly and then eat more at my next meal. I know I need to work on my diet, and tomorrow night after woork, I will spend much time studying diet.

08-24-2009, 07:01 AM	#33
m11 www.liftstrong.com Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: FL Posts: 857	Ah. I haven't noticed anything in this thread regarding meal frequency...maybe it was somewhere else. Either way, as long as you are getting adequate pre workout nutrition, meal frequency isn't very important. Typically, those eating a tremendous amount of calories each day find it easier to as many as six or seven meals a day in order to accommodate for large calorie counts . However, whether you choose to eat two meals or five, as long as your total caloric intake is within the proper range, meal frequency becomes relatively irrelevant. As you mentioned, 5-6 meals may become tough---especially with regards to satiety. Feel free to eat as many meals per day as you find comfortable. Getting Started by Built LG Sciences Board Representative These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

08-24-2009, 07:19 AM	#34
rahaas Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 880 Photos: 1	M11 it was mention in one of the links I posted. Didn't want to overwhelm the guy any more than I already did. *No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.*

08-25-2009, 12:37 PM	#35
T_man Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,248 Photos: 1	I've read that for bulking meal frequency doesn't matter but when on a cut I read eating every 2-3 hours keeps your metabolism fired high. Any truths to this claim? Cheat on your girlfriend, not on your meal.

08-25-2009, 03:25 PM	#37
T_man Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,248 Photos: 1	I cant remember i was researching meal frequency and I saw it posted on a couple of sites and forums. They say because your body hardly goes into surplus at any one time all the food digested is either burnt or used in some sort of way instead of storing the carbs as fat then later breaking down muscle instead of fat. It reduces catabolism apparently in this way too. Cheat on your girlfriend, not on your meal.

08-26-2009, 06:44 AM	#40
rahaas Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 880 Photos: 1	BMI is just an insurance company tool used to charge you more money for premiums and is otherwise useless. BF% is much more accurate way of determining if you are in healthy ranges. My doc told me I'm "healthy fat". My BMI was way high but BF% is in the very low teens. *No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.*

08-26-2009, 04:33 PM	#42
rahaas Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 880 Photos: 1	I agree with you on the increased meal frequency topic. Just pointing out where the OP might have gotten the suggestion that it is necessary to eat more frequently. *No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.*

08-26-2009, 08:20 PM	#44
kaoticone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 65	I can say I prefer 3 meals a day, smaller or lower calorie meals, and a snack between meals, usually my snack is a granola bar or a few almonds.

08-26-2009, 09:47 PM	#45
m11 www.liftstrong.com Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: FL Posts: 857	Kaoticone, rahaas provided you with some excellent links on the first page. Please re-read the first link that he gave you (it is the same as the 'getting started by built' link in my signature). Specifically, notice the part about tracking your calories. Please sign up on FitDay - Free Weight Loss and Diet Journal and track your calories for a few days. Come back with your total grams of fat, carbohydrates, protein, and fiber. No percentages. Tracking will be an integral portion of getting the ball rolling towards reaching your goals. Getting Started by Built LG Sciences Board Representative These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

08-26-2009, 09:58 PM	#46
kaoticone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 65	great idea, but how do I know how many calories are in something like a sandwich? or 5 almonds? or the many bottles of water I drink? or other such stuff? ok, I signed up, I know i will eat oatmeal for breakfast, and maybe a small banana, how can just add what I eat to it instead of choosing? plus I use lactose free reduced fat ilk in my oatmeal. Now I see I can create a food. do you all recommend I add all the fat and what not? in calories, my oatmeal for breakfast with milk is 330. Here's what that breakfast looks like so far without ALL the stuff, this includes milk and oatmeal. Last edited by kaoticone : 08-26-2009 at 10:10 PM.

08-26-2009, 10:09 PM	#47
m11 www.liftstrong.com Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: FL Posts: 857	Play around with fitday for a bit to get familiarized. The website has a very comprehensive database of foods. You can also create custom foods for things that are not preprogrammed into the website. I 'create a custom food' for most of the things I eat because I more or less eat the same stuff day in and day out. If I start eating something new, I just create a new food for it. Everything ultimately will be weighed or measured in a cup. So with almonds, you can weigh the almonds and input 30g or whatever the portion is for the 5 almonds into the site. Or, you can take like a 1/4 cup of almonds and input it that way. Play around, you'll figure it out. For things like sandwiches, you can do one of two things: You can break it into components (my preference). That is, input: 2 slices of bread, 5 slices turkey, 1 slice swiss cheese, 1 tbs mustard, 30g tomato, 25g lettuce. That's basically the idea. You can create a custom food for the turkey and the bread for accuracy. By the way, are you familiar with reading nutrition labels? If not, we can help you out. or If you make it the same way each day, you can just create it as custom food. So if you sandwich always is 2 slices of bread, 5 slices turkey, etc... you can add up all the macronutrients and just create 1 custom food called 'sandwich'. I don't prefer this method because I don't make my food the same way each day. You following? You do not need to input food that has no nutritional value (e.g diet soda, water, etc). Also, things like the lettuce I mentioned up there don't really have much going on in them. For this period of time in which we are trying to collect data on your intake, go ahead and put everything in except the foods that have 0 calories. When you get more familiarized, you'll see what you don't need to input. Let us know if you have any questions. Getting Started by Built LG Sciences Board Representative These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

08-26-2009, 10:17 PM	#48
kaoticone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 65	I don't eat the same EVERy day, but I do many days, so I'll just create a sandwich like that. I have stopped drinking soda altogether, I hear that even diet soda is very bad. I have diabetes encipidus, which is crazy, so I'm always drinking something and I get bored with water, which I drink tons of. I do love powerade., but have cut back to about nothing on that as well.

08-26-2009, 10:32 PM	#49
m11 www.liftstrong.com Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: FL Posts: 857	Regarding diet soda, I've taken the stance that it is fine. Even if I do develop a cancer cell from my couple of diet pepsi cans when I'm 95 years old, then its a worthy trade off. Nonetheless, get to tracking...looking forward to hearing back with your values. Getting Started by Built LG Sciences Board Representative These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

08-27-2009, 12:05 PM	#51
m11 www.liftstrong.com Elite Member Join Date: Jun 2008 Location: FL Posts: 857	yes Getting Started by Built LG Sciences Board Representative These statements have not been evaluated by the FDA, do not constitute medical advice, and are not official or authorized comments by LG Sciences, LLC.

08-28-2009, 07:11 AM	#52
Revolution Registered User Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Southwest Florida Posts: 11	Keep on keepin' on! I am very happy that you're putting in the effort here... As a bigger guy myself, I feel that I should explain what has always worked for me! I have been an avid follower of Dr. Pain and his strong beliefs in Beverly Nutrition over the years... I am currently 6'4" 260lbs...I used to be 6'4" 330 lbs in high school... I would highly reccommend you do a forum search on "Dr. Pain" and read his posts...By following his Male Cutting Plans and teaching myself everything about insulin sensitivity and sugar (how it affects the body upon ingestion) I have been able to make extremely great strides over the years! The diet consists of limiting yourself to NO SUGAR and keeping your carbs extremely low and COMPLEX! You can read more about it under Dr. Pain's posts! Also, "w8lifter" is another female BB you might be interested in following...She was studying under the "DP Methods" as well over the past couple of years and she has made great progress as well... I can only say that this program has ALWAYS worked for me and my family...I have been able to implement this lifestyle into their lives and many of my clients that I train in the gym... GOOD LUCK! Any questions, feel free to ask, I'd be happy to help... ************************************************ ********* 6'4" 260 - 20 Years Old** Currently Dieting Down Obstacles are those frightful things you see when you take your eyes off your goals.

08-28-2009, 09:44 PM	#53
kaoticone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 65	Thanks.I think I just need to find a good workout combination and time, unfortunately both are very hard to determine.

08-30-2009, 07:39 AM	#54
kaoticone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 65	well, I'm gonna restart the fit day tracking on monday, I missed 2 days and it won't let me change the day I ate something.

09-07-2009, 12:06 PM	#56
kaoticone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 65	ok, here is the last week's eating. I've gone back to my total gym, I think I'd get the best results running, but it seems to put a lot more strain on my body than the total gym, what are your thoughts?

09-07-2009, 12:09 PM	#57
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,117	Your diet blows. Please read the link in my sig on getting started. You'll see how to set up your diet and you'll be able to answer your own question about WHY your diet blows. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-07-2009, 01:27 PM	#59
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,117	If you read the newbie thing, why are you dieting on 30g of protein a day? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

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