Big guy trying to get smaller

kaoticone · 09-19-2009, 01:53 PM

Here is an idea for dinner: lots of protein.

T_man · 09-19-2009, 06:24 PM

Wheat toast is fine as long as it fits your macros at the end of the day. Try to think of daily targets rather than meal targets. The meals are just the breakdown of the big picture.

kaoticone · 09-19-2009, 08:17 PM

I am thinking in terms of daily, less than 2k calories, at least 180 grams of protein, etc as discussed before, but wheat toast doesn't offer much nutritional value, but I don't know what to replace it with.

**Built** · 09-20-2009, 12:26 AM

You can't think of any other food you enjoy?

kaoticone · 09-20-2009, 12:49 AM

Of course I can, but I'm trying to limit calories with the most protein, fat, and fiber I can get. as far as the wheat toast, seems like empty calories, maybe if I had a different bread or bagel or something with eggs for breakfast.

**Built** · 09-20-2009, 12:51 AM

Are you specifically looking for a carbohydrate? How many calories are we working with here?

kaoticone · 09-20-2009, 05:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

Are you specifically looking for a carbohydrate? How many calories are we working with here?

I'm not really looking for a carb, I believe you said we would shoot for around 2000 calories a day, it was o the previous page I think. By the way, I deleted that iphone app.

**Built** · 09-20-2009, 11:30 AM

No, that's not what I meant.

You're looking for a substitute for TOAST. How many calories do you have left in your budget? Just pick something with that many calories and you're done.

I don't see what the problem is here. Pick any food you like.

m11 · 09-20-2009, 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaoticone

I believe you said we would shoot for around 2000 calories a day

Focus on the individual macronutrients more so than the total calorie value.

kaoticone · 09-20-2009, 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m11

Focus on the individual macronutrients more so than the total calorie value.

Macronutrient?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

No, that's not what I meant.

You're looking for a substitute for TOAST. How many calories do you have left in your budget? Just pick something with that many calories and you're done.

I don't see what the problem is here. Pick any food you like.

Will do.

kaoticone · 10-10-2009, 06:31 PM

well, things are going well, I'm not skinny, but I never expected overnight results. My workout seems to be going well too, small muscle gains. I continue to read info I find on this site, I was emailed something called bigfatlies by this site, and in it it says that cutting calories can have undesired effects, if you cut too many calories, so I'm still shooting for at least 1700-1800 calories a day. The only problem workout I have is my legs, my feet are too big for the total gym straps, and I'm working out in tri-sets now, it's great.

kaoticone · 11-06-2009, 06:47 PM

Well, another update, things are moving along at the usual snail's pace. I feel like I'm not getting a good enough workout, but I may be. a friend recommended MX-LS7, but I don't know that that will actually help me. Also, I am having trouble losing more fat on my chest. My diet is going decently, not perfect, but I'm trying hard and doing fairly well I think.

jmorrison · 11-06-2009, 09:44 PM

I went through almost the same thing with the odd areas holding fat.

I went from 265lbs 30% BF to 208 13% since february. During the last bit of that, I could NOT get my love handles or some fat around the lower part of my chest to go away, even though I had clearly defined abs at that point.

I think it was Built that broke it to me in the best analogy I have heard yet: No matter what you do, you can't drain the deep end of the pool first.

You are predisposed to carry fat in certain areas of your body. They are the first areas on your body to collect fat and the last to let them go. You will pretty much get ripped everywhere else before these areas will give up the fight.

Just keep it up, if the inches and pounds are still coming off, you are headed the right way.

kaoticone · 11-08-2009, 12:14 AM

well, pounds are going up as muscle builds. I'm really wanting to incorporate some cardio in with my weight training via a stationary bike or something. any suggestions are appreciated.

jmorrison · 11-08-2009, 12:40 AM

If you are gaining weight, you are not running a caloric deficit and your fat loss will be negligible.

Caloric surplus = weight gain and muscle/fat building

Caloric Deficit = weight loss and muscle/fat loss

So if you are gaining weight, but your goal is still to cut off fat, I would reevaluate your calorie intake.

As fat as cardio, personally I did 2 days a week of HIIT training on a stationary bike (couldnt do sprints on the oil rig) and it was plenty.

Good luck!

kaoticone · 11-08-2009, 07:51 AM

I haven't touched a scale, so I may very well be losing, but I feel stronger and thus assume muscle is growing and my weight might be going up. I'll see when I can weigh myself.

danzik17 · 11-08-2009, 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kaoticone

I haven't touched a scale, so I may very well be losing, but I feel stronger and thus assume muscle is growing and my weight might be going up. I'll see when I can weigh myself.

Strength gains can be neurological as well, meaning using your muscles more efficiently.

You see this happening a lot of the times in new lifters - they can barely lift any weight at the start but rapidly progress within literally weeks. It's not that they're gaining superhuman amounts of muscle (though they are gaining in general), it's that they are learning to actually use the muscle that they already have.

njc · 11-14-2009, 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m11

Can we agree that one of the principle matters that lead to success whether during a cut or bulk is compliance?
The OP expressed his feelings towards having to eat 5 times each day. Although it is accepted that lifestyle changes do need to be made for him to be successful, I don't feel that increasing his meal frequency needs to be one.

There may or may not be benefits to frequent feedings. The intermittent fasting community has a little more information on the subject. Here's P-funk's podcast with Brad Pilon, author of Eat,Stop,Eat. There's some interesting information in both the podcast and the book.

Ultimately, if eating five or six times a day is what will cause him to give up, which it does in many, then I do not feel that it is worth making that particular change. Six months from now, he will not waste away from eating three times a day at deficit.

Frequent feedings keep me satisfied throughout the day and make it far less likely that I will gorge on something bad if I come across it. I think a lof of people are like that.

njc · 11-14-2009, 06:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

Strength gains can be neurological as well, meaning using your muscles more efficiently.

You see this happening a lot of the times in new lifters - they can barely lift any weight at the start but rapidly progress within literally weeks. It's not that they're gaining superhuman amounts of muscle (though they are gaining in general), it's that they are learning to actually use the muscle that they already have.

Yeah neurological adaptations occur before muscular adaptations in beginners.

**Built** · 11-14-2009, 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by m11

Can we agree that one of the principle matters that lead to success whether during a cut or bulk is compliance?
The OP expressed his feelings towards having to eat 5 times each day. Although it is accepted that lifestyle changes do need to be made for him to be successful, I don't feel that increasing his meal frequency needs to be one.

There may or may not be benefits to frequent feedings. The intermittent fasting community has a little more information on the subject. Here's P-funk's podcast with Brad Pilon, author of Eat,Stop,Eat. There's some interesting information in both the podcast and the book.

Ultimately, if eating five or six times a day is what will cause him to give up, which it does in many, then I do not feel that it is worth making that particular change. Six months from now, he will not waste away from eating three times a day at deficit.

Quote:

Originally Posted by njc

Frequent feedings keep me satisfied throughout the day and make it far less likely that I will gorge on something bad if I come across it. I think a lot of people are like that.

I think a lot of people ARE like that, njc.

I also think a lot of people AREN'T.

I find it easier to not eat, than to eat frequently. I'm happier being stuffed at least once a day (guys, I know that sounds dirty when I say it, leave it alone...), than feeling like I need to keep an iron grip on my portion sizes all day long with microsnacks.

Either way, as m11 said, it's all about the deficit. Good to know it doesn't matter how many meals you eat to accomplish this end.

Question for you njc - m11 and I have been obese. Have you? I wonder if being "formerly fat" has anything to do with this preference?

Quote:

Originally Posted by njc

Yeah neurological adaptations occur before muscular adaptations in beginners.

That's interesting - I didn't know this! It kinda makes sense in my head though, you get such profound apparent strength increases initially.

I'd like to read more about this - got anything for me?

kaoticone · 11-14-2009, 09:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

I find it easier to not eat, than to eat frequently. I'm happier being stuffed at least once a day (guys, I know that sounds dirty when I say it, leave it alone...),

I could not stop laughing when I read this because it's the first thought that popped into my head!!!
Anyway, I now almost have no hunger, I eat 3 smaller meals a day, my waistline has slightly diminished, and I don't even feel hungry half the time, I just know it's time to eat, because when I wait until I feel hungry, I'm too hungry and don't get full. and now less food seems to fill my stomach and make me feel full as much as larger portions used to. Although sometimes after working out I feel nauseous.
I feel like a juggler, I started with 1 ball, really 1 step, and added another which was the eating at a deficit, and am ready to add another by increasing my workout by adding a little cardio on a stationary bike or something if I can decide on one.

hardrockABS · 11-15-2009, 06:24 AM

cool! i discovered this thread

njc · 11-17-2009, 03:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

I think a lot of people ARE like that, njc.

I also think a lot of people AREN'T.

I find it easier to not eat, than to eat frequently. I'm happier being stuffed at least once a day (guys, I know that sounds dirty when I say it, leave it alone...), than feeling like I need to keep an iron grip on my portion sizes all day long with microsnacks.

Either way, as m11 said, it's all about the deficit. Good to know it doesn't matter how many meals you eat to accomplish this end.

Question for you njc - m11 and I have been obese. Have you? I wonder if being "formerly fat" has anything to do with this preference?

That's interesting - I didn't know this! It kinda makes sense in my head though, you get such profound apparent strength increases initially.

I'd like to read more about this - got anything for me?

With regards to the first statement I've always been pretty lean actually. That's an interesting point you make though. Do you think that for some people who have issues with food that frequent feedings might be a bad plan? Kind of like an alcoholic who can't drink in moderation?

With regards to the second I don't have any literature on it. I just remember it being an essay question when I was an undergrad but I don't remember the mechanism or even if the mechanism has been explained to this point. Increased reqruitment of the myofibrils (obviously) but how?...increased calcium storage/release capacity from the sarcoplasmic reticulum? Decreased acetylcholine reuptake from the endplate?....just some wild guesses.

09-19-2009, 06:24 PM	#122
T_man Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Leeds, England Posts: 1,249 Photos: 1	Wheat toast is fine as long as it fits your macros at the end of the day. Try to think of daily targets rather than meal targets. The meals are just the breakdown of the big picture. Cheat on your girlfriend, not on your meal.

09-20-2009, 12:26 AM	#124
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,120	You can't think of any other food you enjoy? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-20-2009, 12:51 AM	#126
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,120	Are you specifically looking for a carbohydrate? How many calories are we working with here? Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

09-20-2009, 11:30 AM	#128
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,120	No, that's not what I meant. You're looking for a substitute for TOAST. How many calories do you have left in your budget? Just pick something with that many calories and you're done. I don't see what the problem is here. Pick any food you like. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

11-06-2009, 09:44 PM	#133
jmorrison Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 325	I went through almost the same thing with the odd areas holding fat. I went from 265lbs 30% BF to 208 13% since february. During the last bit of that, I could NOT get my love handles or some fat around the lower part of my chest to go away, even though I had clearly defined abs at that point. I think it was Built that broke it to me in the best analogy I have heard yet: No matter what you do, you can't drain the deep end of the pool first. You are predisposed to carry fat in certain areas of your body. They are the first areas on your body to collect fat and the last to let them go. You will pretty much get ripped everywhere else before these areas will give up the fight. Just keep it up, if the inches and pounds are still coming off, you are headed the right way. You should bang this chick like a mountain gorilla ~ ROID

09-19-2009, 01:53 PM	#121
kaoticone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 65	Here is an idea for dinner: lots of protein.

09-19-2009, 08:17 PM	#123
kaoticone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 65	I am thinking in terms of daily, less than 2k calories, at least 180 grams of protein, etc as discussed before, but wheat toast doesn't offer much nutritional value, but I don't know what to replace it with.

09-20-2009, 12:49 AM	#125
kaoticone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 65	Of course I can, but I'm trying to limit calories with the most protein, fat, and fiber I can get. as far as the wheat toast, seems like empty calories, maybe if I had a different bread or bagel or something with eggs for breakfast.

10-10-2009, 06:31 PM	#131
kaoticone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 65	well, things are going well, I'm not skinny, but I never expected overnight results. My workout seems to be going well too, small muscle gains. I continue to read info I find on this site, I was emailed something called bigfatlies by this site, and in it it says that cutting calories can have undesired effects, if you cut too many calories, so I'm still shooting for at least 1700-1800 calories a day. The only problem workout I have is my legs, my feet are too big for the total gym straps, and I'm working out in tri-sets now, it's great.

11-06-2009, 06:47 PM	#132
kaoticone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 65	Well, another update, things are moving along at the usual snail's pace. I feel like I'm not getting a good enough workout, but I may be. a friend recommended MX-LS7, but I don't know that that will actually help me. Also, I am having trouble losing more fat on my chest. My diet is going decently, not perfect, but I'm trying hard and doing fairly well I think.

11-08-2009, 12:14 AM	#134
kaoticone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 65	well, pounds are going up as muscle builds. I'm really wanting to incorporate some cardio in with my weight training via a stationary bike or something. any suggestions are appreciated.

11-08-2009, 12:40 AM	#135
jmorrison Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 325	If you are gaining weight, you are not running a caloric deficit and your fat loss will be negligible. Caloric surplus = weight gain and muscle/fat building Caloric Deficit = weight loss and muscle/fat loss So if you are gaining weight, but your goal is still to cut off fat, I would reevaluate your calorie intake. As fat as cardio, personally I did 2 days a week of HIIT training on a stationary bike (couldnt do sprints on the oil rig) and it was plenty. Good luck! You should bang this chick like a mountain gorilla ~ ROID

11-08-2009, 07:51 AM	#136
kaoticone Registered User Join Date: Aug 2009 Location: Texas Posts: 65	I haven't touched a scale, so I may very well be losing, but I feel stronger and thus assume muscle is growing and my weight might be going up. I'll see when I can weigh myself.

11-15-2009, 06:24 AM	#142
hardrockABS Registered User Join Date: Oct 2009 Location: California Posts: 10	cool! i discovered this thread

Thread Tools	Search this Thread
Show Printable Version Email this Page	Search this Thread: Advanced Search
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode