To Bulk or not to Bulk, that is the ?

NJ-Surfer · 10-04-2009, 12:31 PM

Ok, I've got a good workout program so now I'm working on getting the diet together. I am 41, 6'2", 195lbs, and 22%BF (according to my elec. impedance scale). I have heard some say at >20%BF it is best to cut before trying to bulk. My goal is to put some meat on the arms and chest but I don't want to start off on the wrong foot by putting on too much body fat. The link below is my current eating plan which is currently right at about maintenance (I've been eating this way for a few weeks and haven't gained so I'm confident it's maintenance for me). I'm shooting for 1.5g protein/lb body wt and 0.5g fat/lb body weight so I still need to do a little tweeking but I'm close

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...qV0tQclE&hl=en

I've also attach some pics of the upper body to help.
Let me know what you would do with this body. Oh, and don't say trade it in for a new one; I looked into that and its not an option

rahaas · 10-04-2009, 08:34 PM

I was where you are at when I was your age. If I had to do it over (didn't know what I know now) I'd cut a bit then bulk up.

NJ-Surfer · 10-05-2009, 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahaas

I was where you are at when I was your age. If I had to do it over (didn't know what I know now) I'd cut a bit then bulk up.

Thanks, any suggestion on what I should shoot for on a cut diet in regard to %BF before I begin to Bulk? Ultimately I want to gain size and strength as I have been thin all my life; gaining mass is where I haven't had much luck.

jmorrison · 10-05-2009, 07:25 PM

The advice I was given when I started here was to cut to sub 15% BF before a bulk. 10% is a good number to shoot for, although it may not be realistic to go that low at your weight before bulking.

rahaas · 10-05-2009, 07:26 PM

I don't think you need to cut much. Maybe drop a few more points.
My first cut was from 20+% to about 13 to 15% then bulked up adding some good mass in two years.
Given your age and stats you may be a good candidate for a PH cycle too IMO.

NJ-Surfer · 10-05-2009, 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rahaas

I don't think you need to cut much. Maybe drop a few more points.
My first cut was from 20+% to about 13 to 15% then bulked up adding some good mass in two years.
Given your age and stats you may be a good candidate for a PH cycle too IMO.

Yeah, I think 15% would be as low as I would feel comfortable with at my height and frame. Anything lower I would be way too thin. I'm not too sure how accurate my BF scale is as I was 185lbs when I was doing sprint triathlons 2 years ago and then I was only at 18% but I looked about 10%.

I've thought about trying 1-andro but I want to get to a much better level before I would go that route. Ideally I would prefer to reach my goals without using PH's. I have to admit PH's are tempting as I have always been thin and always struggled to put on mass. Hopefully I can get enough support and help on this forum that I can avoid the PH route.

Hoglander · 10-05-2009, 08:16 PM

Less thinking and more time in gym. Time in gym. IMHO you are just factoring in more ways to fail. More time in gym. More time in gym.

rahaas · 10-05-2009, 08:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NJ-Surfer

I've thought about trying 1-andro but I want to get to a much better level before I would go that route. Ideally I would prefer to reach my goals without using PH's. I have to admit PH's are tempting as I have always been thin and always struggled to put on mass. Hopefully I can get enough support and help on this forum that I can avoid the PH route.

I was thinking more along the lines of once you are into the bulking stage and have added a significant amount of weight to the bar.
Nothing to be afraid of with PH's really once you've got your diet and training down. I'm on my third cycle of PH's and have never felt better or have been stronger overall in my life.
I feel like 10 years have been given back to me.

NJ-Surfer · 10-06-2009, 06:22 AM

My current eat is ~2900 calories which has shown to be maintenance for me.
If I go with a 20% cut in calories I would knock it down to ~2300 by reducing carbs. Does that sound about right?

The attached spreadsheet has my proposed "Cut" diet on the 1st tab and current "Maint." diet on the 2nd tab. Let me know if you have any comments suggestions:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...qV0tQclE&hl=en

NJ-Surfer · 10-06-2009, 09:45 PM

No comments for 20% cut?

rahaas · 10-07-2009, 05:19 AM

I couldn't open up your spreadsheet but yea 600 calorie reduction in carbs sounds good to me to drop some bf% quickly.

NJ-Surfer · 10-07-2009, 11:44 AM

Hmmm, not sure why the link didn't work. I've attached yesterday's intake in the PDF below. I plan to track daily for 1 week to ensure I'm hitting my numbers. I keep it pretty much the same just rotate the protein sources (chicken, turkery, fish) and the veggies at the main meal times.

At 195lbs and 22%BF I have ~152lbs of lean mass. Shooting for at least 0.5g of fat/lean mass is 76g of fat so I'm right on the money. I'm a little high on the protein as 246g puts me at 1.6xlean mass but I feel this is better than taking in the calories as carbs. I could lower the protein a bit and take in more fat but not sure if that will make much of a difference. Let me know if you see any flaws in my logic.

rahaas · 10-07-2009, 12:02 PM

I'm not the expert here on diet but from the looks of it the macros look great to me and If i were to follow that diet I'd be dropping BF% at a decent rate. If you need to up the fat's I'd take more fish oil. That's about the only thing I'd change.

10-04-2009, 08:34 PM	#2
rahaas Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 880 Photos: 1	I was where you are at when I was your age. If I had to do it over (didn't know what I know now) I'd cut a bit then bulk up. *No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.*

10-05-2009, 07:25 PM	#4
jmorrison Registered User Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Alabama Posts: 325	The advice I was given when I started here was to cut to sub 15% BF before a bulk. 10% is a good number to shoot for, although it may not be realistic to go that low at your weight before bulking. You should bang this chick like a mountain gorilla ~ ROID

10-05-2009, 07:26 PM	#5
rahaas Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 880 Photos: 1	I don't think you need to cut much. Maybe drop a few more points. My first cut was from 20+% to about 13 to 15% then bulked up adding some good mass in two years. Given your age and stats you may be a good candidate for a PH cycle too IMO. *No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.*

10-06-2009, 06:22 AM	#9
NJ-Surfer Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 104	My current eat is ~2900 calories which has shown to be maintenance for me. If I go with a 20% cut in calories I would knock it down to ~2300 by reducing carbs. Does that sound about right? The attached spreadsheet has my proposed "Cut" diet on the 1st tab and current "Maint." diet on the 2nd tab. Let me know if you have any comments suggestions: http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?k...qV0tQclE&hl=en "..well I read somewhere that you got to beware, you can't believe everything you read.." Jack Johnson (surfer, film-maker, musician, environmentalist)

10-06-2009, 09:45 PM	#10
NJ-Surfer Registered User Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: NJ Posts: 104	No comments for 20% cut? "..well I read somewhere that you got to beware, you can't believe everything you read.." Jack Johnson (surfer, film-maker, musician, environmentalist)

10-05-2009, 08:16 PM	#7
Hoglander Cleaner Join Date: Jun 2007 Location: Washington Posts: 1,498 Photos: 10	Less thinking and more time in gym. Time in gym. IMHO you are just factoring in more ways to fail. More time in gym. More time in gym.

10-07-2009, 05:19 AM	#11
rahaas Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 880 Photos: 1	I couldn't open up your spreadsheet but yea 600 calorie reduction in carbs sounds good to me to drop some bf% quickly. *No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.*

10-07-2009, 12:02 PM	#13
rahaas Senior Member Elite Member Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Delaware Posts: 880 Photos: 1	I'm not the expert here on diet but from the looks of it the macros look great to me and If i were to follow that diet I'd be dropping BF% at a decent rate. If you need to up the fat's I'd take more fish oil. That's about the only thing I'd change. *No trees were killed in the sending of this message. However a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced.*

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