fatty food calories question on a cut

rayray715 · 10-14-2009, 08:25 PM

if i ate oily or fatty foods with good protein/carb content, and stayed at a calorie deficit, will the deficit still allow fat loss?

suprfast · 10-14-2009, 08:33 PM

yep. calories are calories are calories. If you also ate fatty foods and stayed under normal macros, you wouldnt be eating a lot of fatty foods. hope that last statement makes sense.

**Merkaba** · 10-15-2009, 11:33 PM

urbanski · 10-16-2009, 06:34 AM

fat often comes with your protein sources, and helps with satiety.

**Built** · 10-16-2009, 10:23 AM

High-fat dieter here. I love fat - so satiating. I'm cutting now and my fats are well over 100g daily.

rayray715 · 10-16-2009, 01:39 PM

the fat im referring to is the greasy egg and cheese bagels, chinese food chicken wings, and burgers.

urbanski · 10-16-2009, 03:43 PM

it doesnt sound like you're controlling your caloric intake very well if you're eating a bunch of fast foods

VILBAUGH · 10-16-2009, 03:54 PM

I would not eat meals comprised of fats and carbs, eat lots of fats, but with protein. Insulin is something to consider.

rayray715 · 10-16-2009, 04:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by urbanski

it doesnt sound like you're controlling your caloric intake very well if you're eating a bunch of fast foods

i'm not eating fast food, actually i hate fast food. i posted the question because i was out that one day, ate a greasy bagel and went to a chinese cuisine restaurant. i estimated the amount of calories from those meals, thought it might be too much, so decided not too eat anything else for rest of day, as to not go over my daily requirement.

suprfast · 10-16-2009, 05:21 PM

I would just make it up the next day instead of starving all day. A wise BUILT statue once told me, "subtract 100-200 calories a day during the week so you can eat a little better on the weekend". I have done that and its worked great. You dont really have to think of this as a daily routine, but weekly. Stay under your calories for the week and you will be fine, granted you didnt fast for 6 days so you can hit the half off chinese buffet on Sunday and kill yourself with Michael Phelps' 15000 calorie diet

rayray715 · 10-17-2009, 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VILBAUGH

I would not eat meals comprised of fats and carbs, eat lots of fats, but with protein. Insulin is something to consider.

how bout a fat juicy steak and some bacon and eggs, still ok. no need to trim the fat of the steak?

suprfast · 10-17-2009, 12:45 PM

I would trim it to no more than a 1/4" of fat. It also helps with cooking it to prevent flare ups on the Q.

It also sounds like you are trying your best to rationalize a high fat diet with us. Ever hear of the patient that will go doctor to doctor so he/she can get the diagnosis and remedy they want to hear, instead of what is correct.

danzik17 · 10-17-2009, 04:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayray715

how bout a fat juicy steak and some bacon and eggs, still ok. no need to trim the fat of the steak?

I would trim it. Fats as a macronutrient aren't bad for you, but I would err on the safe side and not overconsume animal fats. Why not replace some of those fats with monos?

**Built** · 10-17-2009, 04:59 PM

I disagree - if your macros work out, go ahead and eat the animal fat. I'm finding it very helpful while cutting. The one fat I'd limit is polyunsaturated; you do need SOME, but it promotes inflammation and you need to keep that down to a dull roar.

rayray715 · 10-17-2009, 05:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by suprfast

It also sounds like you are trying your best to rationalize a high fat diet with us. Ever hear of the patient that will go doctor to doctor so he/she can get the diagnosis and remedy they want to hear, instead of what is correct.

i'm not looking for an answer of what i want to hear, i want to know what is and what not is acceptable to eat on a cut. i'm cutting my calories to where it needs to be. i've stayed to consistent meal plan, which allows me to track how much i'm taking in, and adjust accordingly. meaning, i eat the same thing everyday. it gets boring, but i find it faster, cheaper, and easier to do. i dont want stress over my diet when going out though, so by knowing a fatty meal wont hinder my goal as long as that deficit is there, that helps alot.

Quote:

Originally Posted by built

I disagree - if your macros work out, go ahead and eat the animal fat. I'm finding it very helpful while cutting. The one fat I'd limit is polyunsaturated; you do need SOME, but it promotes inflammation and you need to keep that down to a dull roar.

can you give me examples of what to limit? i know peanut butter is one and i've been eating it everyday. and inflammation of what?

suprfast · 10-17-2009, 05:40 PM

Margarine is another big one.
Did a quick google and found this:
Some Examples of Foods containing polyunsaturated fat

* fish (wild salmon - 2.5 grams per 100 grams)[10]
* cereal
* whole grain wheat (0.8 grams per 100 grams)
* peanut butter (14.2 grams per 100 grams)
* margarine (around 24 grams per 100 grams, but also high in trans fat)
* bananas (however, at .33 grams fat per serving, this food is considered "fat-free" by FDA standards)
* sunflower seeds
* hemp seed

**Built** · 10-17-2009, 05:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rayray715

i'm not looking for an answer of what i want to hear, i want to know what is and what not is acceptable to eat on a cut. i'm cutting my calories to where it needs to be. i've stayed to consistent meal plan, which allows me to track how much i'm taking in, and adjust accordingly. meaning, i eat the same thing everyday. it gets boring, but i find it faster, cheaper, and easier to do. i dont want stress over my diet when going out though, so by knowing a fatty meal wont hinder my goal as long as that deficit is there, that helps alot.

can you give me examples of what to limit? i know peanut butter is one and i've been eating it everyday. and inflammation of what?

Peanut butter's fine actually, it's mostly monounsaturated. I'd limit safflower oil, sesame oil, flax oil... lean on olive oil and saturated animal fat. I eat butter daily, also olive oil, raw almonds, walnuts, cashews; coconut milk/coconut fat is a very good one to eat, stable at higher temperatures for sauteeing.

danzik17 · 10-18-2009, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

I disagree - if your macros work out, go ahead and eat the animal fat. I'm finding it very helpful while cutting. The one fat I'd limit is polyunsaturated; you do need SOME, but it promotes inflammation and you need to keep that down to a dull roar.

I'm not saying eat no animal fats, I'm simply saying eat them in moderation. The OP's food choices seem to be absurdly high in animal fats. Although the recent studies are showing that it's artificial foods that are causing so many health issues, we all know how quickly science changes. Just a few years ago it was "fact" that eating 6 meals a day raised your metabolism; now we know that's incorrect.

I'm just hedging my bets here because who knows what science will be telling us is fact 5-10 years from now.

**Built** · 10-18-2009, 12:17 AM

I don't buy it. Look up Jeff Volek on pubmed for more on this. On a hypocaloric diet, I really don't believe there's any need to single out animal fat, particularly when carbohydrate intake is reduced.

**calalily1972** · 10-18-2009, 02:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danzik17

I'm not saying eat no animal fats, I'm simply saying eat them in moderation. The OP's food choices seem to be absurdly high in animal fats. Although the recent studies are showing that it's artificial foods that are causing so many health issues, we all know how quickly science changes. Just a few years ago it was "fact" that eating 6 meals a day raised your metabolism; now we know that's incorrect.

I'm just hedging my bets here because who knows what science will be telling us is fact 5-10 years from now.

Isn't it amazing how much things have changed just since we have been posting on this forum.

With science we will always adapt and then change and then the cycle repeats. At the same time its the way of life and I don't think it will ever change.

suprfast · 10-18-2009, 03:11 AM

I just found out the Earth is round. Who knew?

OP, keep your fats to a moderate level and you will be okay. I dont know what is too much or too little(so i guess moderate is a relative term). Again, my original comment for you was that if you indulge in so many unhealthy fats you probably are exceeding your daily calories. I can easily eat a big ass rib eye, but go to McDonalds and eat a McNASTY with fries and the story is different.
kris

Phineas · 10-18-2009, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

High-fat dieter here. I love fat - so satiating. I'm cutting now and my fats are well over 100g daily.

What's your daily fat intake when bulking?

**Built** · 10-18-2009, 06:04 PM

About the same actually, sometimes a little lower. I eat more carbs when I'm bulking because I can - I have a higher calorie-limit. The higher carbs and lower fats makes me hungrier but it's okay because I can eat more.

Phineas · 10-19-2009, 12:47 PM

So what are your bulking carbs vs cutting carbs? How much would you eat in refeeds when cutting?

danzik17 · 10-19-2009, 06:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Built

I don't buy it. Look up Jeff Volek on pubmed for more on this. On a hypocaloric diet, I really don't believe there's any need to single out animal fat, particularly when carbohydrate intake is reduced.

I just read that through a few times, and I would agree with you that current research does support your ideas. I'm more concerned about future research (again, only in relation to overconsumption - moderation is fine).

What happens if 10 years down the road it's known that although the markers of good cholesterol health are shown by those fats that the increase FFA concentration in the bloodstream contibuted to plaque buildup in the arteries?

Now don't castrate me here if I'm completely wrong, I openly admit that I have no idea about the pathways that FFAs follow post digestion and if that theory is even feasible, it's just an open air discussion about why I don't place 100% faith in current science.

10-14-2009, 08:25 PM	#1
rayray715 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: nj Posts: 59	fatty food calories question on a cut if i ate oily or fatty foods with good protein/carb content, and stayed at a calorie deficit, will the deficit still allow fat loss?

10-14-2009, 08:33 PM	#2
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 389	yep. calories are calories are calories. If you also ate fatty foods and stayed under normal macros, you wouldnt be eating a lot of fatty foods. hope that last statement makes sense. 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

10-15-2009, 11:33 PM	#3
Merkaba "King of Cheat Meals" Moderator Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: sc Posts: 1,625	Yes Ban 2 1/2 's !!!!!! -------------------------------------------- Some Pics. All Natural

10-16-2009, 10:23 AM	#5
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	High-fat dieter here. I love fat - so satiating. I'm cutting now and my fats are well over 100g daily. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-16-2009, 03:54 PM	#8
VILBAUGH Member Elite Member Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Ontario Posts: 131	I would not eat meals comprised of fats and carbs, eat lots of fats, but with protein. Insulin is something to consider. There are few things graven in stone, except that you have to squat or you're a pussy. - M. Rippetoe

10-16-2009, 06:34 AM	#4
urbanski Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 237	fat often comes with your protein sources, and helps with satiety.

10-16-2009, 01:39 PM	#6
rayray715 Registered User Join Date: Jan 2009 Location: nj Posts: 59	the fat im referring to is the greasy egg and cheese bagels, chinese food chicken wings, and burgers.

10-16-2009, 03:43 PM	#7
urbanski Member Elite Member Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: San Antonio, TX Posts: 237	it doesnt sound like you're controlling your caloric intake very well if you're eating a bunch of fast foods

10-16-2009, 05:21 PM	#10
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 389	I would just make it up the next day instead of starving all day. A wise BUILT statue once told me, "subtract 100-200 calories a day during the week so you can eat a little better on the weekend". I have done that and its worked great. You dont really have to think of this as a daily routine, but weekly. Stay under your calories for the week and you will be fine, granted you didnt fast for 6 days so you can hit the half off chinese buffet on Sunday and kill yourself with Michael Phelps' 15000 calorie diet 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

10-17-2009, 12:45 PM	#12
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 389	I would trim it to no more than a 1/4" of fat. It also helps with cooking it to prevent flare ups on the Q. It also sounds like you are trying your best to rationalize a high fat diet with us. Ever hear of the patient that will go doctor to doctor so he/she can get the diagnosis and remedy they want to hear, instead of what is correct. 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

10-17-2009, 04:59 PM	#14
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	I disagree - if your macros work out, go ahead and eat the animal fat. I'm finding it very helpful while cutting. The one fat I'd limit is polyunsaturated; you do need SOME, but it promotes inflammation and you need to keep that down to a dull roar. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-17-2009, 05:40 PM	#16
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 389	Margarine is another big one. Did a quick google and found this: Some Examples of Foods containing polyunsaturated fat * fish (wild salmon - 2.5 grams per 100 grams)[10] * cereal * whole grain wheat (0.8 grams per 100 grams) * peanut butter (14.2 grams per 100 grams) * margarine (around 24 grams per 100 grams, but also high in trans fat) * bananas (however, at .33 grams fat per serving, this food is considered "fat-free" by FDA standards) * sunflower seeds * hemp seed 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

10-18-2009, 12:17 AM	#19
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	I don't buy it. Look up Jeff Volek on pubmed for more on this. On a hypocaloric diet, I really don't believe there's any need to single out animal fat, particularly when carbohydrate intake is reduced. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-18-2009, 03:11 AM	#21
suprfast Registered User Join Date: Jul 2009 Location: Merced, ca Posts: 389	I just found out the Earth is round. Who knew? OP, keep your fats to a moderate level and you will be okay. I dont know what is too much or too little(so i guess moderate is a relative term). Again, my original comment for you was that if you indulge in so many unhealthy fats you probably are exceeding your daily calories. I can easily eat a big ass rib eye, but go to McDonalds and eat a McNASTY with fries and the story is different. kris 5'8" 207 lbs 225lbs(6.8.09)/207lbs(10.22.09) looking for 200lbs in 25 weeks(a pound a week) Exercise Examples

10-18-2009, 06:04 PM	#23
Built Bioidentical Bodybuilder Super Moderator Join Date: Mar 2008 Location: . Posts: 6,118	About the same actually, sometimes a little lower. I eat more carbs when I'm bulking because I can - I have a higher calorie-limit. The higher carbs and lower fats makes me hungrier but it's okay because I can eat more. Wondering where to start? Confused? This will get you started. Daredevils are Shredded Find out why... (Now you can find out why... in Hebrew!) UD2.Built - My UD2.0 setup.

10-19-2009, 12:47 PM	#24
Phineas Registered User Join Date: Oct 2008 Location: British Columbia, Canada Posts: 122	So what are your bulking carbs vs cutting carbs? How much would you eat in refeeds when cutting? Training the mind is equally, if not more, important than training the body. If you can learn to transcend natural limitations, and force your mind into your muscle, your strength will know no bounds.

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