Thread: New member, old questions

Originally Posted by FMJ

Hi all,
I'm Mike. I'm 42, 5'8 164 pounds.
I've trained with weights in the past but never made any significant gains.

Post your exact training program in DETAIL.


By DETAIL, I mean DETAIL.

Okay, here goes.. as of last week from my log

Monday:
Flat bench press - 145#, 2 sets to failure. 11 reps, 9 reps
Incline Press- 95#, 1 set to failure. 7 reps
Rear squats - 210#, below parallel, 1 set, 20 reps
Chin ups- body weight, 2 sets to failure. 9 reps, 7 reps
Bent rows- 100#, 2 sets to failure. 8 reps, 5 reps

Wednesday:
Flat bench press - 150#, 2 sets to failure. 9 reps, 8 reps
Rear squats - 215#, below parallel, 1 set, 20 reps
Mil Press- 85#, 2 sets to failure. 10 reps, 7 reps
Shrugs- 160#, 2 sets to failure. 11 reps, 9 reps
Bent rows- 100#, 2 sets to failure. 10 reps, 6 reps

Friday:
Flat bench press - 150#, 2 sets to failure. 11 reps, 7 reps
Incline Press- 95#, 1 set to failure. 7 reps
Rear squats - 220#, below parallel, 1 set, 20 reps
skull crushers- 60#, 2 sets to failure. 8 reps, 7 reps
Bent rows- 105#, 2 sets to failure. 8 reps, 7 reps

I change up the arm and shoulder exercises each week as well, next week I'll do preacher curls or standing curls instead of pull ups. Some weeks I'll do pulldowns or seated rows instead of bent rows.
I rest no more than 2 minutes between sets. Workouts last between 35-55 minutes. Once I can do any of these exercises for 11 or 12 reps, I add 5 pounds, except for squats which I add 5 pounds to each time I perform them. I do no cardio at all. I ride a stationary bike for 10 minutes and stretch for another 5 before I hit the weights.
The poundages may seem light to many, but they are my maximums without compromising form. as for rest, I sleep 8-9 hours every night.

Your training program is very poor, thus the little gains you are getting. Time to adapt and try something new.

Very poor? You think? I used to do a split 3X5 and 5X5 but they didnt work well either. After reading much on the web, the old "Squats and Milk" routine sounded like a good newbie routine to help shock my system.
Do you suggest the standard Chest/Tri's, Back/Bi's, Shoulders/Legs routine? Or do you mean that the routine is okay and my weights aren't enough to make gains?
Appreciate your advice, thanks.

Hi Mike,

In my opinion your choice of exercises is really good. The main problem is the lack of recovery time your giving your muscles.

Most training programs for the average bodybuilder train one muscle once a week and usually no more than twice.

By doing this you are giving your muscles optimum recovery time to repair and grow bigger and stronger, essentially allowing you to lift heavier weight.

After 1-2 days recovery time my muscles are still sore and weak.

In my opinion the more progression we make (the heavier we lift with good form) the bigger we will grow.

Hope I helped.

Hey Energy,
Thanks for taking the time to reply.
Overtraining is a possibility, though it was my understanding that targeting for 10-12 reps instead of heavier weight for 5-7 reps and no more than 2 sets would help avoid overtraining the larger muscle groups while still giving size gains. Is this incorrect? I've also read that muscle repair, and therefore growth, stops 48 hours after a workout allowing for full body workouts 3 times a week.
I definitly like the 20 rep squats, they're grueling for sure, but at my age most opinions feel it's the only way to help boost test and hgh levels and they're reputed to help overall growth, though that has illuded me even after 3 weeks of doing them.
As I mentioned, I've already done the split routines with very little success. This routine is completely different than any other I've done and certainly has required the most intensity but if it's still widely considered a poor training routine, then I have to reevaluate once again.

What does your diet look like on a daily basis? Also, do you know your macros?
I think you can do much better on exercise selection and perhaps adding a day of training if your schedule permits. I'd also do away with the full body if again, your schedule permits.

Hey Juggernaut,

Diet is almost the same day to day..

eggwhites
Cheerios
whole Milk
bananas
pasta
chicken
lean beef
raisins
almonds
turkey
apples
tuna
Rice Krispies
Baked beans
1% milk
Talapia

These are the exact items that make up my diet on any given day. Sometimes all of them, sometimes a few of them over and over.
I eat 6 times a day, starting at 8 am, ending at 11pm. Simple carbs consumed early in the day, complex later.
I eat till I've reached 4500 calories in a ratio of 40% carbs, 30% pro, 25% fat.
You stated I could have selected better exercises. Can you elaborate please? I selected mostly compound exercises that allow me to use the most weight. For the smaller muscles I used iso exercises that my body seems to respond to. For example, Skull crushers really give my tri's a great pump. If I do say.. pushdowns, I don't feel it as good, even though I can use nearly twice the poundage.
Also, correct me if this is not correct, but shouldn't even the most half assed routine workat least a little as long as your diet and intensity is on the mark?
This routine isn't new, in fact, it's probaby the oldest one you could dig up. It predates all the fancy split routines and suppliments and guys got great results using it. So I really can't understand why it's a poor routine to try.
I'm not arguing, I just would like to know why it's bad. Thats all.

A few points at a glance:

- Don't do every single set to failure.
- Don't repeat the same exercises three times a week.
- Why aren't you doing deadlifts?

You're doing free weight compound movements which is great, and you're at least thinking about what you eat which puts you ahead of the curve. Also remember it might take a little time for any change in diet to really take effect.

Hi Gaz,
I definitly do deadlifts, I just didnt do any last week. I alternate exercises to keep from getting too.. you know... adaptive.

I will add more variety into the moves. I'm also thinking about changing from the higher reps to add more weight like in the flat press. I can probably add 15 more pounds if I only have to do 5 or 6 reps instead of 10 or 12.

You bring up an excellent, excellent point that I would like to clarify.
How long should the average training guy wait before adding 500 calories to his surplus? For instance, if I increase to 5000 daily calories, how long should I expect to see it get to the scale before I add yet another 500? I wouldn't think more than a week or two, is that correct?
Also, should I increase my protien intake to say 35%? 40%?
Thanks everyone, by the way, for the replies.
I really appreciate the help.

Originally Posted by FMJ

Hi Gaz,
I definitly do deadlifts, I just didnt do any last week. I alternate exercises to keep from getting too.. you know... adaptive.

I will add more variety into the moves.

From what you've said, i would do totally the opposite and do fewer movements, and stick to improving them and doing them regularly. If your method of progressive overload is adding weight every few weeks, and you switch up movements every week, how are you going to know if you're improving?

Stick to a basic set of exercises. Your body isn't going to adapt to a particular exercise in a few weeks. I generally do the same exercises for a good three programs (usually over 4 months) before i switch just one or two of those movements out IF progress on them has stagnated.

Plan out how you will change all the other variables in your program instead. For example, if you want to put on size then adding volume progressively is one way to overload the muscles and stimulate growth. A linear example of this is :

Week 1 - 3x10
Week 2 - 4x10
Week 3 - 5x10
Week 4 - 3x5
Week 5 - 4x5
Week 6 - 5x5

The second half of the program, after you have increase the volume to a high level, you drop the volume, increase the intensity and build up to more volume at that increased intensity.

This is a pretty basic form of periodization. Get a decent training split sorted out and obey the golden rule - keep it simple, stupid!

Originally Posted by Gazhole

If your method of progressive overload is adding weight every few weeks, and you switch up movements every week, how are you going to know if you're improving?

I was relying on the scale and tape measure to tell me if I'm improving or not. But I do see your point and it make sense.

So you guys definitly seem to think it's less of a nutrition issue and more of a training issue?
I will go back to the drawing board and address these inconsistencies.
As for the diet, is it feasable to have such a high caloric surplus for three weeks and still make no gains or losses soley due to an inefficient training routine? Honestly, it's as if I never changed my diet at all. My son is 6 years old, so it's been about 5 years since I trained. For that time, I would have been lucky to have eaten 1200 calories a day and not clean at all.
Suddenly, I go and add 3200 calories and I haven't gained a pound or an inch. I mean seriously... what the hell? lol
I have one of those bodies that like to "seek it's level"
Before my son I was 177. After I stoped training, I went down to my current weight of 164 and went up in BF but thats where I stayed ever since for 5 years. Never got fatter, never got thinner. Now that I'm trying to get back into things, the scale simply doesnt want to move. Quite frankly it's uncanny. Oh, I'll go up of course to about 169 by the end of every day... but by morning, after using the restroom, I'm back to 164.
My wife has been trying to lose a few extra pounds and she hates the fact that I can lose 5 pounds simply by sleeping 8 hours.