Thread: Explain carb loading pls?

Refeeds and Leptin

Thanks Iain. Exactly what I was looking for.
One question. Should I wait till my weight loss slows or stops or just incorporate refeeds now, even though I'm losing 1+ pound a week currently?

Originally Posted by FMJ

Should I wait till my weight loss slows or stops ?

No.

That's a sure fire way of screwing up your metabolism and preventing further fat loss. You want to include refeeds now to keep the fat loss momentum.

With a 3,500 calorie deficit, you could set up two separate refeed days or possibly just refeed over the weekend.

For example -- 2 days:

Day 1 -- -700
Day 2 -- 700
Day 3 -- High intensity workout in morning; Maintenance eating & Refeed
Day 4 -- -700
Day 5 -- -700
Day 6 -- -700
Day 7 -- High intensity workout; Maintenance & Refeed

Or you could make days 6 and 7 refeed days which would make weekends more tolerable.

I'm not sure what your experience level is so it may make sense to use a moderate deficit as you are with -700 or 3,500. I'd personally cut cals in half if you can take it and know how to deal with that kind of dieting.

KY

Good info KY, As always. Thanks buddy
I'll start next week on probably exactly what you outlined.
It's okay to do an HI workout on one of those -700 days too though, right?

Yup.

And by high intensity I mean, heavier weight...low reps...but low overall volume of work. For example:

* Flat Bench: 2-3 sets at a weight you can do 5-8 reps
* Squat: Ditto
* Rows: Ditto
* Shoulder Press: Ditto
* DB Bis: 1-2 sets, 10-12
* Laterals: Ditto
* Maybe two sets of abs

You're lifting heavy with high intensity (low rep range) to convince your muscle to stick around while dieting. Your volume or work amount is reduced because if you're cutting calories, you'll be low on energy and low on ability to recover.

Should be in and out in no more than 45 minutes. Do some cardio on off days.

Could also add some glycogen depletion workout at the beginning of each week but that's probably a story for another day.

KY

Yep. Already switched to lower reps range last week. Should be getting dialed in now soon.
Thanks

Originally Posted by FMJ

Thanks Iain. Exactly what I was looking for.
One question. Should I wait till my weight loss slows or stops or just incorporate refeeds now, even though I'm losing 1+ pound a week currently?

What is your current average daily carb intake in grams and what is your %BF? You only need to refeed if your carbs are low enough that your depleting glycogen.

Originally Posted by kyoun1e

I'm not sure what your experience level is so it may make sense to use a moderate deficit as you are with -700 or 3,500. I'd personally cut cals in half if you can take it and know how to deal with that kind of dieting.

KY

What do you mean you would cut cals in half?

Originally Posted by Merkaba

What do you mean you would cut cals in half?

Maintenance cals / 2.

If I'm dieting, I'm dieting. No middle of the road. Get it over with.

KY

Originally Posted by NJ-Surfer

What is your current average daily carb intake in grams and what is your %BF? You only need to refeed if your carbs are low enough that your depleting glycogen.

Currently, I'm on 2200 calories total. 40%p 30%c and 30%f.
BF% is approx 16-17%
Total daily carbs are 165grams

Originally Posted by kyoun1e

No.

That's a sure fire way of screwing up your metabolism and preventing further fat loss. You want to include refeeds now to keep the fat loss momentum.

With a 3,500 calorie deficit, you could set up two separate refeed days or possibly just refeed over the weekend.

For example -- 2 days:

Day 1 -- -700
Day 2 -- 700
Day 3 -- High intensity workout in morning; Maintenance eating & Refeed
Day 4 -- -700
Day 5 -- -700
Day 6 -- -700
Day 7 -- High intensity workout; Maintenance & Refeed

Or you could make days 6 and 7 refeed days which would make weekends more tolerable.

I'm not sure what your experience level is so it may make sense to use a moderate deficit as you are with -700 or 3,500. I'd personally cut cals in half if you can take it and know how to deal with that kind of dieting.

KY

KY,
I want to start off with just one day of refeeding to see how I react from it. I'll be doing a 600 cal daily deficit for 6 days and then refeed the last day. If my maintainence is 2700 then I'm shooting for anywhere between 3400 and 4000 for the refeed day. 660 of those calories will be protein. The rest should be carbs and whatever fat comes from those carbs. Is this right?

Refeeds are also dependent on your Bodyfat levels as well. I would say you are fine with 1 a week.

Originally Posted by FMJ

Currently, I'm on 2200 calories total. 40%p 30%c and 30%f.
BF% is approx 16-17%
Total daily carbs are 165grams

Are you planning on lowering your daily carb intake? At 165 grams/day there's no need to refeed as your glycogen stores are not being depleted unless your doing a whole lot of cardio. IMHO, keep it simple and just cut calories as you're doing and add 1 cheat day/week. I'm a big believer in Occam's razor (aka. keep it simple). If you're hell-bent on keto and refeeds here is a rough estimate of daily carb intake required for ketosis based on an article by Christian Thibaudeau:

...Although I can't give exact numbers that'll be perfect for everybody, the following can give you a good starting point when planning carb intake. (Remember that these numbers are for those who want to lose fat, not bulk up.)

For men
Above 20% body fat: no more than 30g of carbs per day
15-20% body fat: 0.25g of carbs per pound of body weight per day
12-15% body fat: 0.35g of carbs per pound of body weight per day
10-12% body fat: 0.45g of carbs per pound of body weight per day
Less than 10% body fat: 0.55g of carbs per pound of body weight per day

The leanness factor is also applied to the frequency and magnitude of your carb-up (higher carb days):

For men

Above 20% body fat: carb-up at around 0.75g of carbs per pound every 14 days
15-20% body fat: carb-up at around 0.75g of carbs per pound every 10 days
12-15% body fat: carb-up at around 1.0g of carbs per pound every 7 days
10-12% body fat: carb-up at around 1.25g of carbs per pound every 7 days
Less than 10% body fat: carb-up at around 1.25g of carbs per pound every 4-5 days

Yeah, agree with NJ.

165 grams of carbs is a walk in the park. Refeeding probably isn't necessary.

Now if you increase your deficit by a few hundred calories and drop carbs below 75g per day to accelerate fat loss...different ballgame.

KY

Okay. That sounds great. Thanks gents. I'm losing still. about 6 lbs in the last 3 weeks. If that stalls on me, I'll cut a big deficit and incorporate refeeds.
Good stuff to know though. Sooner or later, I'm gonna get to a point where fat loss will stop on my current diet. I don't want to be cutting for the next 6 months either so maybe I'll switch it up sooner just to speed the cutting progress.
Thanks!

Guys, I'm going over my numbers again and want to double check this..
Currently my macros in grams are: 165c, 74f and 220p. That breaks down to 30%, 30% and 40%, respectively. A total of 2215 cal.
In order to pull off 75g of carbs and I would have to go down to 1855 which is about an 845 calorie daily deficit.
That would still be with 1.3 grams of protein per lb of bodyweight and 0.45 grams of fat per pound of bodyweight. Question is, would 845 be too much to cut out each day? After a refeed, that would give me a weekly deficit of just over 3700 calories. At the new calorie range my daily macros would then be 47.5% protein, 36% fat and only around 17% carbs.
Does that sound effective?

Now you're talkin.

I think it will be effective if you can stick with it.

I'd keep protein up around 1.5g/lb, carbs at 75g, and fat around 50g. Back of the envelope math has you landing right around the same spot...1,800ish.

Give it a shot and see how you do. You can always adjust. You've been losing fat anyways. Lowering your deficit wont hurt unless you totally go into binge mode.

When I'm in diet mode, it's pretty simple:

1. Cut cals hard.
2. But keep protein high...1.5g/LBM.
3. Keep fat and carbs down low in the 50-60 range.
4. Workout at high intensity, but lower volume and frequency.
5. Refeed as necessary and up the carbs big time (but keep fat low).

This is getting me hungry to diet. Been bulking for weeks on UD2 Mass. Now I'm thinking RFL (Rapid Fat Loss). If you think your deficit will hurt, try RFL. Not for the weak.

KY

Just hearing the phrase Rapid fat loss made my stomach growl.

Okay, I'm kicking this off when I get back to PA on Sunday. If you don't hear from me on Monday, send help as I'm unconscious somewhere.

all you need to do is eat alot of italian food...it all adds up by the end of the week

spaghetti or lasagna

Hey.. Yeah!! Why didn't I think of that?? Thats the worst idea I've heard yet, thanks!

So I'm 4 days in at my new macros. 75c, 60f, and 248p, in grams.
I'm preparing for my first refeed and I'm shocked at the number of carbs so let me post this to be sure I'm not screwing up.
I plan to refeed on Saturday. I'm targeting a total caloric intake of my maintainence plus 50%. (2700+1350=4050). I'm shooting for only 100grams of protein on this day(400cal). No fat other than what comes from the carbs. So lets assume I get around 10 grams of fat for every 100 grams of carbs. With 3650 calories remaining after the protein, that comes to about 750 grams of carbs and 75 grams of fat.
Does this sound about right?

Oops! I screwed up the previous math. I caculated only 100g protein during refeed. That's wrong. It should be 165g. (1g/lb) Using the earlier example, assuming around 10 grams of fat for every 100 grams of carbs, it still comes out to around 680 grams of carbs and 68 grams of fat.
Does this jive?
Thanks guys

Change of plans... after more reading and researching, I decided to do the refeed earlier. After 5 days of low carbs, I ate all my carbs yesterday. My totals were 687grams of carbs, 40 grams of fat and 167 of protein. A total of 3780 calories. Now, I plan to repeat this every 5 days. Will this be okay? 5 days of low carb followed by one refeed, then repeat.

are you trying to carb load for a competition? please ellaborate.

Originally Posted by JayCutler

are you trying to carb load for a competition? please ellaborate.

Nah, just a cyclical dieting style that involves alternating periods of low carbs and high carbs.

I used PSMF last year on/off for the last couple months of my cut. It was the most effective fat loss I have ever experienced. It was also the most miserable fat loss I have ever experienced. I literally had dreams about crackers. CRACKERS.

Maybe I am not hardcore enough. I am just using reduced cals now for cutting.

Originally Posted by jmorrison

I used PSMF last year on/off for the last couple months of my cut. It was the most effective fat loss I have ever experienced. It was also the most miserable fat loss I have ever experienced. I literally had dreams about crackers. CRACKERS.

Maybe I am not hardcore enough. I am just using reduced cals now for cutting.

I just got UD2 book today and I've finished reading it through. I'm gonna try to get started on it ASAP. I'm hoping to get down to 10% and use it to do a bulk as well.
Looks like some good stuff so far. Shouldn't be too much diff from what I'm doing now except for the training variations. Once I get it straight I'll start posting some results in my training log.